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View Full Version : A Hobby Driver's Perspective on Tracking the E92 M3


NZ_M3
27-04-2010, 04:36 AM
So I finally got around to tracking the 'daily hack' :thumbs:at Pukekohe race park here in New Zealand.

This is the track that I head to most regularly as it is convenient to home (40 minute drive or less) and it's reasonably high speed with some rather enjoyable corners (and did I mention cheap? NZ$80 for a full day of racing - that's about 37 pounds in Queen's money)

I've driven around this track in the CSL three times and 4 times in an E46 M3 and numerous times in an Integra Type R. I also have had driver training on this track with the BMW driver training instructor, so I am fairly familiar with the track.

I am however just a "hobby driver."

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3161/4553686833_ab3d5d83e0.jpg (http://www.flickr.com/photos/talan-chen/4553686833/)


Here's my report and completely subjective comparison of how this car compares to the CSL (bear in mind that only earlier this month I took the CSL around the same track, so the feeling was fresh in my mind).

The positives first then:

- The brakes ... honestly, I know I am going to sound like "you know who" ... but fxck me the stock brakes were impressive. Sure it doesn't have the stopping powers of the Alcons (although I am sure with better pads it'd be almost as good), but for such a heavy car, the stock brakes actually worked brilliantly lap after lap (without any noticeable degradation). It was easy to modulate, the car felt balanced under heavy and light braking - I was honestly impressed!! Certainly a step up from the stock E46 M3 system!! There's really only two heavy braking zones on this track, so I guess the system coped quite well as a result.

- Predictable Handling. Whilst the CSL had the edge in terms of overall handling and cornering speed, being some 300kg heavier the E92 M3 did rather well in the handling department. It was not as lively as the CSL under turn in, but man it had whole lot more front end grip (LOT less understeer compared to the E46). The front end simply grips better whilst the rear end simply followed where ever you point it. The steering did feel a bit numb, and the weight a little artificial as a result of the electric power steer system, but point to point it was direct and EASY!!

The car had no nasty traits like the E46 chassis if you acted stupid (I had the traction turned off and power mode on) and it lost grip progressively and predictably, similarly to the CSL (except I would say the CSL was a little more snappy in the rear end).

The front end of the car did bob a bit under quick directional changes, and seemed to be under-sprung to me, but helped with pitching and roll in corners.

The rear end felt planted almost all the time, but did feel a little unsettled over the most nasty bumps (this was quite a bumpy track). I felt that it probably needed a slightly larger rear sway bar to keep the rear end in control given how softly it was dampened.

- The power - no doubt in my mind that the engine is the jewel of this car. It just pulls relentlessly in any gear and almost at any revs and a freaking rocket near the end of the rev range. The motor also never feels stained like the CSL motor does (what I mean by this is the CSL motor feels likes it's reached its upper limits, but the V8 just feels like it has potential for another 50 or so horses and would do so effortlessly). Corner exit also a heck of a lot easier and felt quicker compared to the CSL.

- Easy - by far the easist car I've had around this track. Easy to go fast, neutral characteristics, everything controllable via the loud pedal - no nasty traits anywhere around this track.

- The drive home - I've never had a drive home so comfortable. It was amazing. Packed everything up after the day, put the power seats back into comfort cruising mode, turn up the sound system, set the navigation and bluetooth phone, turn on the aircon and off I go ... it was nice and relaxing drive home (you'd honestly never know I'd just been to the track!)

The Negatives (not that many really):

- Slightly numb and detracted steering feel - the one thing that really got me was the artificially weighted steering feel. Yes the car had plenty of grip and had good turn in, but it felt a little detracted compared to the CSL, where you knew and felt what was going on all the time - you feel more on edge with the CSL (which in reality you probably are haha). You'd have to be pretty picky though to be honest. It's actually not as bad as I make it out to be.

- too easy to drive perhaps? It was seriously a very easy car to pilot and go fast, with no real nasty traits that could put you in trouble. It was well balanced almost to the point that it actually felt a little bit boring after quite a few laps. But man for a heavy car it was impressive.

- Power steering cap - I have to mention this one because come on BMW ... you'd think they can design a car where the power steering cap wouldn't leak - mine leaked lap after lap - I had to keep wiping it clean after each session ... what's up with that??? :banghead::banghead:

- Fuel Consumption - I've never seen anything so thirsty at the track honestly!! I got probably 80km out of 3/4 of a tank of fuel it was ridiculous!!



So overall a positive experience. I do believe this car has a lot of potential given the right money spent on the right components. It would be quite a track weapon.

azrael
27-04-2010, 09:35 AM
A great write up, thanks for sharing Tom :tu

mole
27-04-2010, 09:53 AM
Interesting read :thumbs:

shane@mbtech
27-04-2010, 12:09 PM
Yes interesting read Tom, Thanks.

A car I will definitely own in the next few years. I have a few other itches to scratch before then though:whistle:

DuncanR
27-04-2010, 01:45 PM
Good informative report Tom, hope you are well mate.;)

shimmy
27-04-2010, 02:54 PM
I find it weird how few I have seen on track tbh

I guess the new CSL crowd have moved onto 6RS and 7RS but still expected to see more E92 out there.

shane@mbtech
27-04-2010, 02:57 PM
I find it weird how few I have seen on track tbh

I guess the new CSL crowd have moved onto 6RS and 7RS but still expected to see more E92 out there.

Me too Shim, Ive not yet encountered 1, not that i'm a track king. But I thought I would have seen one be now:thumbs:

mattCSLnut
27-04-2010, 04:01 PM
I find it weird how few I have seen on track tbh

I guess the new CSL crowd have moved onto 6RS and 7RS but still expected to see more E92 out there.

I stayed on the tail of one, down the Nurburgring F1 GP pit straight few weeks ago (very fast, long straight). He had nothing left to pull away from me (very surprisingly to me as I thought that V8 had some guts). Had I had AP Racing anchors I would have gone for a late out braking maneuver but since I don't :banghead: I stayed on the cautious side and didn't. :whistle: After the next two corners he was behind me, looking very understeery :blalalala:
Having spoken to quite a few Ring experts about the E90 M3 as a potential Ring toy... their comments are alway the same... very NICE for the AUTOBAHN but in standard trim, around the Ring... Nein ! ... the CSL is just better :whistle:
Undoubtedly, by throwing lots of money at one you could end up with a very entertaining Track weapon... but then again same can be said about other cars too.
THANX all the same for sharing Tom :thumbs:

glendog74
27-04-2010, 11:17 PM
I saw more E92s at the Ring last weekend than i have yet to date - they are definitely getting more common on track - on the Ring at least.

Only one was actually quick though... :whistle:

_Nathan_
28-04-2010, 09:43 AM
Be under no illusions that once the prices fall and the track crowd get hold of them they will start modding them and then bye bye CSL. Said it before but the newer breed of chassis is so much better as a base, so much stiffer, it isn't coincidence that 92 is 2 x 46, it is that much better ;)

I guess at the moment the price doesn't stack up against more track ready machines but once they get cheap enough we'll see more stripped and ready for action.

I want one :D

Bealo
28-04-2010, 11:44 AM
I had a good play with one at Snett last year. it left me for dead on the straights but i pulled him in under braking and in the corners and finally past him.

TBH it is a car that i could see myself in, i love them in white or the monte carlo blue :thumbs:

glendog74
28-04-2010, 11:53 AM
Craiiiiiiiig Daaaaavid! :thumbs:

NZ_M3
28-04-2010, 11:58 AM
Be under no illusions that once the prices fall and the track crowd get hold of them they will start modding them and then bye bye CSL. Said it before but the newer breed of chassis is so much better as a base, so much stiffer, it isn't coincidence that 92 is 2 x 46, it is that much better ;)

I guess at the moment the price doesn't stack up against more track ready machines but once they get cheap enough we'll see more stripped and ready for action.

I want one :D

Agree completely!!

Weight is a bit of a disadvantage, but strip one out and I am sure it'd be hell of a track car!!

I had a good play with one at Snett last year. it left me for dead on the straights but i pulled him in under braking and in the corners and finally past him.

TBH it is a car that i could see myself in, i love them in white or the monte carlo blue :thumbs:

Similar experience when I was at a BMW M driver day and had a run with a couple of E92 M3s - they are brutal in a straight line.

glendog74
28-04-2010, 12:03 PM
I think it may take some years yet until the E92 appears in larger numbers on tracks in the UK.

I like them, but with fuel costs rising all the time i don't know if i could justify running such a thirsty car on track - never mind the road! :bigcry:

Tyres and brakes replacement will presumably cost a fair bit more than E46 items also and may even wear quicker than the lighter E46 too...

NZ_M3
28-04-2010, 12:09 PM
I like them, but with fuel costs rising all the time i don't know if i could justify running such a thirsty car on track - never mind the road! :bigcry:

Tyres and brakes replacement will presumably cost a fair bit more than E46 items also and may even wear quicker than the lighter E46 too...

That is true - it is a thirsty car (I miss having the Mini simply because of this!!).

The brake discs are more expensive than the E46, similarly the pads (OEM parts). Tyres would be the same I'd think or similar, but slightly cheaper than Cups.

Larger version of the first photo:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3161/4553686833_ab3d5d83e0_b.jpg

One more photo:
http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3380/4556971529_f96e89e68e_b.jpg

Thorney
28-04-2010, 02:38 PM
Be under no illusions that once the prices fall and the track crowd get hold of them they will start modding them and then bye bye CSL. Said it before but the newer breed of chassis is so much better as a base, so much stiffer, it isn't coincidence that 92 is 2 x 46, it is that much better ;)

I guess at the moment the price doesn't stack up against more track ready machines but once they get cheap enough we'll see more stripped and ready for action.

I want one :D

I concur.:smt055

alexk
28-04-2010, 05:25 PM
Stock CSL is much faster around the track than stock E92 M3.
I would assume that :
Modded CSL is much faster around the track than modded E92 M3.
Unless when you are saying modded E92 M3 = bye bye CSL, you mean bye bye stock CSL.

The fuel consumption is simply ridiculous for a 2008 car.
I guess the fuel injectors are pissing and not injecting fuel.
I bet if it was running carburetors, it would spend less.
I would feel stupid to own a car that is so inefficient.

I think is a car designed for the american market and for owners that go to the track wearing shirt.
Feels like they are interviewing the potential owners whether they are wearing shirt everytime they drive it ;)

_Nathan_
28-04-2010, 08:17 PM
While I agree that the CSL is a bit quicker on most tracks there are some exceptions and given exactly the same tyres (Cups rather than Cup+) I imagine the gap would be a lot closer, how much of the 15 seconds difference at the ring could be bought in by tyres? I guess at least 10?

Tsukuba

M3 CSL (E46) 1:06.88
M3 (E92) DKG 1:05.698
M3 (E92) 1:05.817

Remember that this is for a full fat version with sat nav, 10 speaker stereo, all the toys, electric seats, full thickness glass etc etc

A well modded e92 would be quicker than a well modded CSL IMO. If you want to compare like with like factory cars then I guess we need to wait for M3 GTS lap times...

Dan
28-04-2010, 08:55 PM
A good thread to read this one with people giving sensible opinions :thumbs:

Lovely pics of the car Tom :smokin:

mattCSLnut
28-04-2010, 10:32 PM
Stock CSL is much faster around the track than stock E92 M3.
I would assume that :
Modded CSL is much faster around the track than modded E92 M3.
Unless when you are saying modded E92 M3 = bye bye CSL, you mean bye bye stock CSL.

The fuel consumption is simply ridiculous for a 2008 car.
I guess the fuel injectors are pissing and not injecting fuel.
I bet if it was running carburetors, it would spend less.
I would feel stupid to own a car that is so inefficient.

I think is a car designed for the american market and for owners that go to the track wearing shirt.
Feels like they are interviewing the potential owners whether they are wearing shirt everytime they drive it ;)


Even by modern American standards the M3 is thirsty :bigcry: Remember the US fuel isn't as cheep as it once was. They now have to pay as much as $3.50 / US gallon :whistle:

:hahaha: :smt046 :hahaha: about the collar shirt wearing E92 M3 owners. Alex and I observed this at the Ring car part recently and without fail, regardless of nationality they all wore collar shirts as if they stepped out of a power meeting :hahaha: Must be a European thing and NZ_M3 doesn't do this, right Tom ;)

alexk
28-04-2010, 11:31 PM
:hahaha: :smt046 :hahaha: about the collar shirt wearing E92 M3 owners. Alex and I observed this at the Ring car part recently and without fail, regardless of nationality they all wore collar shirts as if they stepped out of a power meeting :hahaha: Must be a European thing and NZ_M3 doesn't do this, right Tom ;)

Exactly !
In Monza two times ALL of them had their collar shirts on, hahahaha !!!
Next time I will take photos to have proof :thumbs:

glendog74
28-04-2010, 11:42 PM
While I agree that the CSL is a bit quicker on most tracks there are some exceptions and given exactly the same tyres (Cups rather than Cup+) I imagine the gap would be a lot closer, how much of the 15 seconds difference at the ring could be bought in by tyres? I guess at least 10?


My first 50 or so laps of the Ring were always using PS2 tyres and i was lapping on average around the 8m35s mark with traffic.

When i switched to Cup tyres my times dropped immediately by almost 20 seconds per lap to around the 8m15s mark...

I like Cup tyres :smt055

northernjim
28-04-2010, 11:46 PM
will your car do 8:15 with a Big lardy Northerner in it over the Spa weekend I wonder:whistle::thumbs:

glendog74
29-04-2010, 12:17 AM
will your car do 8:15 with a Big lardy Northerner in it over the Spa weekend I wonder:whistle::thumbs:

No - because i aint letting you cadge a lift :birdman: :hahaha:

shane@mbtech
29-04-2010, 12:26 AM
I was thinking of tagging on the back of your car Rob, show a first timer the ropes:beer:. But might be a bit swift for me. You seasoned ring veteran you:birdman:

Fasteddie
29-04-2010, 12:26 AM
8:15, wow. I knew it felt quick i wish i had timed you whilst in the passenger seat. Thanx for that btw, great to see the ring as such a blur. I'm probably getting in just under 9

glendog74
29-04-2010, 12:29 AM
I was thinking of tagging on the back of your car Rob, show a first timer the ropes:beer:. But might be a bit swift for me. You seasoned ring veteran you:birdman:

8:15, wow. I knew it felt quick i wish i had timed you whilst in the passenger seat. Thanx for that btw, great to see the ring as such a blur. I'm probably getting in just under 9

No worries :smokin:

NZ_M3
29-04-2010, 12:31 AM
Lovely pics of the car Tom :smokin:

Thank you!! I have fallen in love with the new E92 M3 shape I have to admit ...


:hahaha: :smt046 :hahaha: about the collar shirt wearing E92 M3 owners. Alex and I observed this at the Ring car part recently and without fail, regardless of nationality they all wore collar shirts as if they stepped out of a power meeting :hahaha: Must be a European thing and NZ_M3 doesn't do this, right Tom ;)

LOL ...No way .. I am a t-shirt and jeans man (everything else I loath) - although I have to say the collar shirts look appears to be the norm here also from what I have observed :gayfight:


A well modded e92 would be quicker than a well modded CSL IMO. If you want to compare like with like factory cars then I guess we need to wait for M3 GTS lap times...

Surprised there hasn't been a M3 GTS review any where yet ... what a shame. But I concur with your opinion, a well modded E92 M3 would blitz a modded CSL (except for perhaps a supercharged one??)

_Nathan_
29-04-2010, 12:54 AM
Just supercharge the e92 to make it fair ;)

Nords
29-04-2010, 01:16 AM
I'm surprised that an e92 ran away on the straights, my CSL can stay with Angus' e92 (which has been dynoed at 420-od bhp) up to at least 120 mph...

He has tracked his e92 occasionally and John has his track e92 weapon...

:thumbs: