I knew it was rusty but £eck me!!

[rstoughy]

As some know my exhaust back box was showing signs of being past it a little.
Decided tonight that id remove it from the car ready for the new one when it arrives along with a new rear mount.

Guessing alot of this is down to the fact the car has sat idle for 6 months as it deffinetly wasnt this bad last year :bigcry: :bigcry: :bigcry:

Heres some pics of the stramash that i found :whistle:


Rear box removed and dropped out

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2374.jpg


The pile of muck after removal

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2377.jpg


Remains of the flange's

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2379.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2378.jpg


Now awaiting new silencer and some clamps

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2380.jpg

[TMAQ]

was the back box damaged (apart from the flanges)?

i know replacement BMW flanges will not fit over the lipped ends according to BMW, they recommend a new back box which has the flanges installed.

my flanges need replacing at some point, likely with none BMW U clamps. think i posted something about this a while back.

[rstoughy]

Apart from the Flanges the back box was ok if a little rusty in places.

I could probably nurse another year out of it but have decided to just replace it as it's off the car.

I will probably go down the route of sourcing clamps to do the job of the flanges unless i can work out a way to get a replacement flange over the flared end of the system.

Work in progress :hahaha: :whistle:

[mole]

Got any pics of your flared ends? :whistle:

[rstoughy]

Got any pics of your flared ends? :whistle:

No but can take some tonight if you want??

[mole]

Wouldn't mind Paul as never seen it all, just read stuff on here. :thumbs:

[rstoughy]

Just ordered up all the bolts, seal rings and a couple of flanges from the local steelers (all in stock except 1 flange) £31 inc VAT. :thumbs: :thumbs:

Am in total shock at something actually being reasonably priced :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[rstoughy]

Rich,

Here are some pics of the pipes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2382.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2384.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2385.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2387.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2388.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2389.jpg

[Mark CSL]

when the car is under warranty and the flange rot or brake the backbox is replaced free as you cant get the flange for the flared end

[Kev.H]

theres nothing like a nice new flange :bigcry::bigcry: sorry couldnt resist :hahaha:

[TMAQ]

maybe a stupid question and i might be missing something but how are you going to get the flanges over the lipped/flared ends?

the centre pipe only has one flared end, didn't know that, thought they bother would be.

[rstoughy]

maybe a stupid question and i might be missing something but how are you going to get the flanges over the lipped/flared ends?

the centre pipe only has one flared end, didn't know that, thought they bother would be.

Not a stupid question and you are not missing anything as i have not worked that out yet but i have a few ideas that i shall look at once i have the bits.
If that fails then a quick trip into Kwikfit for a clamp will be in order ;)

Just dont want a redundent flange rattling around on the new back box. Can't cut it off either as it voids the warranty.

The outer pipe of the centre part slides into the rear box then as you tighten the flange bolts it compresses the ring and creates a seal round the pipe. Just like a copper pipe fitting for your central heating ;)

[TMAQ]

intrested to see how you get on Paul as i'm in the similar situation....

just had new cats fitted under warranty and while it was in BMW suggested (also previously when it was in for a spec II) i get new centre pipes and a back box as the flanges were slightly cracked (not leaking).

i ordered the replacement parts with either 1) the idea of getting an independent garage to sort it somehow, possibly cutting the pipes to get the flanges over the lip and weld back the pipes. 2) cutting the new flanges and welding them back together once back on the pipes. 3) kwik fit it.

not quite sure what to do yet, let us know how you get on ;) :thumbs:

[rstoughy]

intrested to see how you get on Paul as i'm in the similar situation....

just had new cats fitted under warranty and while it was in BMW suggested (also previously when it was in for a spec II) i get new centre pipes and a back box as the flanges were slightly cracked (not leaking).

i ordered the replacement parts with either 1) the idea of getting an independent garage to sort it somehow, possibly cutting the pipes to get the flanges over the lip and weld back the pipes. 2) cutting the new flanges and welding them back together once back on the pipes. 3) kwik fit it.

not quite sure what to do yet, let us know how you get on ;) :thumbs:

I will do ;)

Like i have said it's a work in progress but im deffinetly going to sort something rather than replace a perfectly good centre section just for the sakes of a flange.

[grumps]

Just had my centre and rear silencer replaced under warranty! same problem at the rear box and cracked mounts on the centre.
Just a suggestion for the rear clamps,you could always cut off the flanges and fit new clamps and then have them rewelded using stainless wire to stop any cracking around the welded area:thumbs:.

[Bounce]

Just had my centre and rear silencer replaced under warranty! same problem at the rear box and cracked mounts on the centre.
Just a suggestion for the rear clamps,you could always cut off the flanges and fit new clamps and then have them rewelded using stainless wire to stop any cracking around the welded area:thumbs:.Didn,t think the exhaust was coverd under warranty,only the cats.:smt017

[NZ_M3]

What's the diameter of the pipe work? 55mm?

BMW has a clamping system (55mm, 50mm and 75mm) for situations like this - basically you just need to cut the flared ends off and use the joinder.

55mm - Part No. 18307560778 or 18307525639 (part 3 below)
75mm - part no. 18307560781
50mm versions - part no. 18101439722 or 18307560777

Not sure if it comes in anything larger than 55mm - I am sure it does, but it'd probably work for something like this.

Or you could find a section on the pipe work to hack apart, fit new flange and use the joinder part above to rejoin the pipe work rather than resorting to welding.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/a/t/241.png

[rstoughy]

Tom,

That's exactly along the lines i was thinking ;)
Don't really want to go down the route of welding etc if i can avoid it.

Very very handy to know that BMW have a part that might actually do the job.

Will measure up the pipe tonight as i was looking at making up my own clamp but this could save me a bit of time :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

If it fits i will buy you a Coffee next time i'm over ;) :beer:

[NZ_M3]

Paul

I measured it off a broken M3 CSL exhaust gasket that I had - it's 60mm +/- 1mm

Following are all 60mm clamping bushes from BMW directly - all slightly different pricing for some reason - I guess it could be a material thing?

Part numbers:
18201742445
18307560779
18201742445
18307560779

There's another one that's 62.3mm from a JCW mini which might also work if the 60mm don't fit: Part number for this one is:
18107573865


Let us know if you go down this route to repair and if it works out (perhaps even a photo for future reference - seeing how weak the caste iron flanges are!!)

Good luck :thumbs:

p.s. The clamping bushes from BMW are really well made - I've used one before on a Mini with a JCW exhaust system - hacked the old muffler off, used the clamp, tighten both hex nut on either side (don't even need to resort to hi temp exhaust gaskets) - no leaks whatsoever and it held the pipe work straight as an arrow!!

[Pip1968]

I am popping down to Munich Legends tomorrow to get the flange cut and rewelded complete with a new flange as one of my flanges has cracked. I tried at the dealership for a new back box under warranty due to cracked flange but they turned me down despite saying that a lot of other owners had had it covered under warranty.

Robbing gypsies :banghead:

Pip

[NZ_M3]

I am popping down to Munich Legends tomorrow to get the flange cut and rewelded complete with a new flange as one of my flanges has cracked. I tried at the dealership for a new back box under warranty due to cracked flange but they turned me down despite saying that a lot of other owners had had it covered under warranty.

Robbing gypsies :banghead:

Pip


If you are doing that might pay to get some rust proffing on the new flange or paint it with high temp VHT exhaust paint - otherwise it'll just corrode and break again.

My opinion is using the clamp bushing might be an easier method and longer lasting.

[sailorbaz]

While we're talking about Exhausts and warranty. Mine was in for a rattle last year and even though I've got a Milltek Backbox, they replaced the exhaust bracket on the centre section under warranty... which was nice.

[rstoughy]

Local dealer has one of the exhaust clamp bushings in stock so have reserved it.

Shall do a photographic rebuild of the set up for future use to everyone ;)

Thanks for the part no's Tom :thumbs:

[grumps]

pip if you have a uac warranty they have no option to replace it under the terms of the aggrement!

[mole]

Just had a look at mine, looks like I'm in the same boat with no flanges left! :banghead: Not sure how to play it.

[mole]

Rich,

Here are some pics of the pipes.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2384.jpg


Cheers Paul... how is the flange meant to stay on the longer piece of pipe if there's no flared end to it? :whistle:
Or is it normally fixed?

[rstoughy]

Works by compression on the Gasket Ring much the same as a copper pipe and olive set up ;)

Will take loads of pics tomorrow when i am doing it and post them up.

[mole]

Works by compression on the Gasket Ring much the same as a copper pipe and olive set up ;)

Will take loads of pics tomorrow when i am doing it and post them up.

Ah OK, think I understand. :thumbs:

[rstoughy]

Ok here goes...i will try to explain as best i can what i have done.

Had a trip into the local dealers this morning to collect my order.
Placed this during the week and basically ordered everything i thought id need to do the job.

The bits, £54 all in

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2392.jpg


After looking to see where i was going to cut the centre part of the system to allow the flange to go on i discovered there is only one part of it that is round and that is up near the flared end so decided it wasnt an option and id need to go with plan B.

Double checked the OD of the pipe v's the ID of the flange and thought it was a bit tight.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2395.jpg


Fired up the pencil Grinder and removed some material from the flange to give it a bit of movement.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2396.jpg


Then cut the side section out of the Flange. Decided on this rather than chopping the exhaust as it's much thicker material for welding + only £6 if i destroy it.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2397.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2398.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2399.jpg


Time to break out the old Welder.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2400.jpg


All done ready for painting.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2403.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2404.jpg


At this stage i bolted up the 3 rear Exhaust hangers to the car with the bolts that attach them to the silencer in place but pushed back through the hangers so as not to catch the silencer on its way up into position.

This also allows you more movement with the silencer to get it onto the longer pipe of the centre section.

I also slid the seal ring onto the longer pipe.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2408.jpg


Once all the Hanger bolts were made up hand tight it was a case of tighten up the flanges.
I pulled the system apart slightly and popped in the other Seal ring then made up the flange / bolts.

I did the Inside pipe 1st as this is fixed in position so once tight it means that the outer pipe is in the correct position and can also be nipped up.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2409.jpg


Again once all made up i painted the whole lot with a Hi Temp anti corrosion coating we use on stuff for offshore.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2410.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2411.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2412.jpg


That was it really,
Fired up the car and checked for leaks, lowered it down, fitted my new Tax and went out for a road test.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2413.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2414.jpg

God it's good to have the thing back on the road :smt055


I hope this will be usefull to anyone who has the same sort of issue in the future.

Took me about 2-1/2 hrs from start to finish so worth it IMO.

Thanks to everyone who gave me information on this over the last week.

Cheers,

[NZ_M3]

Great job Paul :thumbs: Thanks for the pictures.

What a shame that the joinder clamp method wouldn't work - would have otherwise been an easy non welding repair (I suppose if you resort to hacking off both flared flanges then it "might" work?)

Interesting that the new flanges are now coated with what seemed to be an anti-rust coating.

[mattCSLnut]

GREAT write up & pix Paul :thumbs: How do you get on with that Scorpion Back Box you have there ? I've been looking at it for a while on eBay as an alternative to the Supersprint's more costly option... seems well made & priced @ £380 ... how does it sound on the CSL ? Is it "Bassy" in the usual Scorpion way ? Do U have a sound clip you could post up ?

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/BMW-M3-E46-EXHAUST-BACK-BOX-SCORPION-QUAD-83MM-TAILS-/330426562928?cmd=ViewItem&pt=UK_CarsParts_Vehicles_CarParts_SM&hash=item4ceef53970#ht_6275wt_941

[s.mac]

Great job, I've got mine to do, shame you live so far away, once youve done one it make the 2nd so much easier :whistle:
At least I can see what I need to do :thumbs:

[TMAQ]

good job, thanks for the info! should help me when someone does mine :whistle::thumbs:

[shimmy]

good job, thanks for the info! should help me when someone does mine :whistle::thumbs:

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha: :thumbs:

[Pip1968]

I had the pipe cut, flanges replaced and then rewelded by Munich Legends so fingers crossed it lasts a bit longer than the 28,000 miles the last one held for.

Great write up and pictures though :thumbs:.

Pip

[rstoughy]

Thanks for the comments guys :thumbs: :thumbs:

Matt,
The Scorpion is fine. How you see it in the last pics is how it fitted up I.E no mucking around with the mounting brackets or nothing just bolted straight up into position.
I have ran Scorpions on loads of my RS's before and have a few mates who have had them on their E30 325 Sports so had no reservations about the qaulity. You get a lifetime warranty with it anyway.

The sound is deffinetly slightly deeper but done 200+ miles today with the wife and wee one and had no complaints so it cant be that bad :hahaha:
Best bit is the CSL roar is still there.

Will try for a sound clip some stage soon.

[mole]

Good work Paul :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Thanks for the comments guys :thumbs: :thumbs:

Matt,
The Scorpion is fine. How you see it in the last pics is how it fitted up I.E no mucking around with the mounting brackets or nothing just bolted straight up into position.
I have ran Scorpions on loads of my RS's before and have a few mates who have had them on their E30 325 Sports so had no reservations about the qaulity. You get a lifetime warranty with it anyway.

The sound is deffinetly slightly deeper but done 200+ miles today with the wife and wee one and had no complaints so it cant be that bad :hahaha:
Best bit is the CSL roar is still there.

Will try for a sound clip some stage soon.


THANX for the info regarding the Scorpion back box Paul :thumbs: Sounds like it's been through the toughest test known to man & machine ;) :hahaha: (wife & the wee one) :whistle: Looking forward to the sound clip :drool:

[mole]

Here's my solution which is not as DIY as yours Paul :hahaha:

Bought a 2nd hand CSL centre section for £50 - had 27,000 miles on it and the flanges although starting to corrode will at least do the job for the mean time. I'll replace the one that can be.

http://newimages.fotopic.net/?iid=12hdet&outx=800&quality=70

[TMAQ]

I had the pipe cut, flanges replaced and then rewelded by Munich Legends so fingers crossed it lasts a bit longer than the 28,000 miles the last one held for.

Great write up and pictures though :thumbs:.

Pip

Pip, any chance of a picture, interested to see the quality of the job as i may go down that route. thanks Tino :beer:

[sailorbaz]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2414.jpg


Resurrecting an old thread. I noticed in your photos, is your car from March Motors in/nr Buckie? My mate bought his M3 from him and his preparation is second to none.

Also, was thinking of another exhaust to replace my Milltek for the summer and come across this thread again. Top work Paul, :thumbs:

[rstoughy]

Yes Baz it was from March Motors. Bryan is a top guy to deal with although i was kicking myself as he bought it from a mates mate so immediately stuck a couple of grand on it :banghead: saying that was happy with the deal as it had the AP's, he put new PS2's on it, had the front end painted and the splitters re lacquered to remove the stone chips and threw me in some genuine BMW mats for it.
Car was spotless when i went to view and inside :smokin:

Really is an enthusiast and has had quite a few as his daily runers over the years.
Would i buy from him again???? sure without question.

Exhausts, hmmmmm i'm thinking SS light weight this year and centre section.

[rstoughy]

Thanks for the comments guys :thumbs: :thumbs:

Matt,

Will try for a sound clip some stage soon.

Just realised i have never done this. :bigcry:

[sailorbaz]

Yes Baz it was from March Motors. Bryan is a top guy to deal with although i was kicking myself as he bought it from a mates mate so immediately stuck a couple of grand on it :banghead: saying that was happy with the deal as it had the AP's, he put new PS2's on it, had the front end painted and the splitters re lacquered to remove the stone chips and threw me in some genuine BMW mats for it.
Car was spotless when i went to view and inside :smokin:

Really is an enthusiast and has had quite a few as his daily runers over the years.
Would i buy from him again???? sure without question.

Exhausts, hmmmmm i'm thinking SS light weight this year and centre section.

Thinking about it thought Paul, to replace the Tyres (with PS2's no less), paint the front end and tidy up the splitters, you're looking at about £1.5K anyway, so he maybe only made £700-£1K out of it.

My mates M3 only had about 17K on it, but was about 5 years old iirc, it was immaculate and still is if I'm honest.

Thinking of the SS route myself. :thumbs:

[need4speed]

Sorry to jump in on the thread Baz, do you know if anybody has tried a Tubi exhaust on a CSL?

[mattCSLnut]

Just realised i have never done this. :bigcry:

No worries Paul ;) I bit the bullet and got myself some proper SS Lightweight pipes :smt055 back in November 2010 :thumbs:

[rstoughy]

Thats what i'm talking about Matt :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

They seem to look so good on the CSL. How is the noise? I do quite a few days at Croft and am forever getting pulled for noise (95db limit) unless it's a noisy day which are few and far between.

You got the suspension on yet? been looking at the Billy kit myself.

[s.mac]

update on this, I did the cut and weld on my flange :gayfight:
it lasted 6 months, at crimbo when I was checking over the car I noticed the weld hadnt held properly and I just pulled it off. New solution required. Checked the seal without flange and no gases escaping. I was going to get an SS centre with resonator but I've been told it takes the rasp away so not for me.

[glendog74]

update on this, I did the cut and weld on my flange :gayfight:
it lasted 6 months, at crimbo when I was checking over the car I noticed the weld hadnt held properly and I just pulled it off. New solution required. Checked the seal without flange and no gases escaping. I was going to get an SS centre with resonator but I've been told it takes the rasp away so not for me.

Get the SS centre without resonator then - like mine ;)

[glendog74]

Thats what i'm talking about Matt :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

They seem to look so good on the CSL. How is the noise? I do quite a few days at Croft and am forever getting pulled for noise (95db limit) unless it's a noisy day which are few and far between.

You got the suspension on yet? been looking at the Billy kit myself.

SS Race Lightweight and standard cat + centre is around 97dB...

Noisy day at Croft required to get on!

[mattCSLnut]

Thats what i'm talking about Matt :thumbs: :thumbs: :thumbs:

They seem to look so good on the CSL. How is the noise? I do quite a few days at Croft and am forever getting pulled for noise (95db limit) unless it's a noisy day which are few and far between.

You got the suspension on yet? been looking at the Billy kit myself.

It's absolutely SUPERB :drool: I'm glad I went for the Lightweigh "RACE" SS in the end :smt055 As yet I haven't done any dB noise tests with my set up but on road it's very civilised, not at all intrusive, has a tiny hint of boomines @ around 2000-3000 rpm ( only under load in top gear ) but it's nowhere near as bad as the old MILTEK "Boom-Box" :bigcry: that I originally bought her with.
Just waiting for my front adjustable top mounts to arrive form the US and the "Billys" will be going ON next :thumbs: I'll do an update once they are On :smokin:
Can't wait to get back On Track :beer: Can somebody pleeeeez ! fast forward to Summer ;) :hahaha:

[rstoughy]

SS Race Lightweight and standard cat + centre is around 97dB...

Noisy day at Croft required to get on!

Hmmm need to look into noise supression like i have at the moment for there then :whistle:
With these fitted I went from 98 to 93db static.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2485.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2487.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2488.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2491.jpg

[s.mac]

Get the SS centre without resonator then - like mine ;)

had that before with the full SS system, sold it all to try something new (which I did) and now thinking of something new again ;)

BTW Glendog :birdman: you got me :whistle:

[glendog74]

BTW Glendog :birdman: you got me :whistle:

I know - i got Jim too ;) :hahaha:

[s.mac]

I never put myself in the same category as Jim before but maybe ...

:clown:

2nd thoughts Nah

[RolyGTIR]

Great post Paul! :thumbs:
Just bought the bits to do this on mine - warranty wouldn't cough up for new back box...

[Pip1968]

I am glad to hear that I was not the only one to be turned down on a warranty claim for the back box due to the clamps splitting.

It was easier in the 'old' days!

Pip

[northernjim]

I never put myself in the same category as Jim before but maybe ...

:clown:

2nd thoughts Nah

:smt055

you booked snett or spa yet?:birdman:

[billyboysm3]

Hmmm need to look into noise supression like i have at the moment for there then :whistle:
With these fitted I went from 98 to 93db static.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2485.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2487.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2488.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2491.jpg

Rstoughy - how are you getting on with the decibel killers? Ive got supersprint cats, ss centre pipe and lightweight backbox and need to get the noise down as its very loud?

Are they worth it?

[rstoughy]

Was reading 93db static @ Croft so done the trick there. Brought me down from 98.

Standard except the Scorpion back box.

Edit to say Croft is the only circuit i've had to fit them.

[billyboysm3]

Cool, so you bought 4 off these

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Search.do?method=delegate&n=2189&b=578&g=5120&s=decibel

Some of this
http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/Performance/Exhausts/Exhaust_Accessories/Custom_Chrome_Racing_Exhaust_Silencer_Wadding/801/5997

And pipe.

Do they then slide in or have you clamped them in place?

[rstoughy]

Correct thats what i bought although i just went direct to Jetex.

Yes they just slip in, stole the idea from the exhaust bung i used to use on my Evo and combined that with my bike silencer so basically a silenced bung :bigcry:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2489.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSC_2490.jpg


Heres a pic i've just taken to show the underside, once it's in position I use the clamp to keep it in place.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSCN0174.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v447/rstoughy/CSL/DSCN0175.jpg

Hope this helps?
Gimmie a shout if there's anything I can help with :thumbs:

[toplad]

Cool, a thread about flange:thumbs:

[rstoughy]

Cool, a thread about flange:thumbs:

Yeah but these ones were all cracked and flakey :vom:

:bigcry: :bigcry: