DMS Remap

[weyzi]

hi all

had a 330d dms and made a big difference to power over standard thinking of getting csl remaped anyone know if its worth doing?

[shimmy]

hi all

had a 330d dms and made a big difference to power over standard thinking of getting csl remaped anyone know if its worth doing?


ive had a few on the CSL over the years

most werent worth the money tbh, as you wont get much power out of it at all. 10-15bhp max BUT if you get the right one these days you can get certainly a little bit of power, better drivability, more even torque curve pulling through to the red line better as well as delimit and memory sport extras

nothing like the advantages you get on a oil burner turbo though!

[weyzi]

ive had a few on the CSL over the years

most werent worth the money tbh, as you wont get much power out of it at all. 10-15bhp max BUT if you get the right one these days you can get certainly a little bit of power, better drivability, more even torque curve pulling through to the red line better as well as delimit and memory sport extras

nothing like the advantages you get on a oil burner turbo though!

cheers shimmy for info

[Nords]

Matt, are you talking about the 330d or CSL with +40bhp at the top; I'm assuming the 330d although the 6200 rpm suggests the CSL. If the CSL, someone has been pulling your chain!

All newish diesel or petrol turbos can produce great results from a remap, a naturally aspirated, high output engine like the S54 won't give anything at peak, however just as Shimmy says, better drivability and possibly torque lower down.

Probably the main advantage (for trips to the ring etc), is the removal of the limiter. Most CSL remaps will remove this, if done by the factory.

[shimmy]

I agree that modern Turbo Diesels respond really well to remaps however I can vouch for DMS's re-map on a CSL as it's a very well written program and minimum 19 BHP gains are available throughout the range + an amazing 40 BHP gain :supz: (from standard) @ 6200 rpm, which is clearly noticeable from behind the wheel. :whistle:

Matt

can't wait till Wednesday to see how your 395bhp CSL pulls away!:)

[_Nathan_]

Lol @ minimum 19bhp everywhere in the rev range, how much extra torque is required for 19bhp at idle?

[shimmy]

Lol @ minimum 19bhp everywhere in the rev range, how much extra torque is required for 19bhp at idle?

Nathan you unbeliever!

Matts got graphs to prove it!

[_Nathan_]

Nathan you unbeliever!

Matts got graphs to prove it!

Well at 900rpm you'd need an extra 110Lb/ft to get 19bhp :whistle:

[shimmy]

Shimmy m8... mines only 379 BHP :whistle:

But you said it had a massive 40bhp gain Matt, :smokin:

[_Nathan_]

@ 6200 rpm all standard, health CSLs are producing around 320 bhp. U do the maths :whistle:

Are you claiming 360bhp @ 6200rpm?

[_Nathan_]

So it is making 280lb/ft at 6200? Impressive. Still think your earlier statement needs amending :blalalala:

[_Nathan_]

RR graphs are bollocks, don't trust any of them, even if they say 334 bhp @ 6200 it means nothing as they can be frigged.

Main thing is you are happy that it drives better, still think that your 19bhp everywhere statement is wrong ;)

[shimmy]

Everywhere and anywhere! :)

[AlexGTT]

I'm sorry but I don't have much faith in chassis dyno's. Seen and had way too many tall stories on my own cars over the years. Great tool for checking safety, working on and setting up after market ECU's and generally producing safe mapps in relation to AFR's, ignition plots, etc.

But as far as power figures are concerned, they are just a good reference to progress made on a given day of mapping work. The actual figure I always take with a pinch of salt.

You could knock me down with a feather if you actually achieved 40bhp difference in one point of a power graph on an N/A engine without standalone ECU such as Motech and feckin' fortune of internal work. A turbo motor, sure, that's easy but N/A circa 340-360bhp engine..............no way unless it was deliberately de-tuned. I don't doubt your graph but there's a very easy way to make it look like that and the mind is a very powerful tool when it's convinced of something.

Besides, a healthy CSL will show about 320-325bhp and about 275ftlb at 6,200rpm anyway.

[_Nathan_]

Just admit it doesn't make 110lb ft more than a standard map at 900rpm and I'll leave you alone ;)

I also think the on track stuff is so dependant on corner exit that it isn't that useful a comparison, my standard map car had gained on remaped cars on the straights and also been left by other standard mapped cars. Some "reputable" tuners maps have been shown at other places to have removed power low down to give the impression of more power further up and in fact were worse that the stock map, yet the original graphs from the remapping session showed a gain hence my distrust.

At the top end we are talking about a roughly 5% difference in power which is too slight to be conclusive in a drag race IMO. Worn tyres with smaller circumference have a difference on the effective gearing, you can have a 3% difference in car weight just through petrol levels etc etc, just too many variables.

[AlexGTT]

I wouldn't go as far as saying it's all bollox but I know what you're getting at. Rolling Roads have a margin of error and can under/over read by as much as 10-15 BHP. All depends on Atmospheric pressure, correct tyre pressure, etc.. My CSL was tested on a really drab, January day with very low Atmospheric pressure and my rear tyre psi was too low, so naturally my standard read out was under 360 BHP, despite running Supersprint 100 cell cats & middle section and the car being in rude health. However, after the RR re-map, driving the car on the road really does show improvements where the graph indicates, mainly at around the 6200 RPM. Having driven behind a certain, well sorted SB "Ring Ready" CSL that had a recent head gasket with standard map, I was gaining on it on the Ring straights :supz:. The driver of said vehicle can confirm this.:whistle:

The fact that said cars engine lunched itself soon after doesn't do this statement much good Matt.:whistle: And, Nathan's comment on driver input is crucial.

[_Nathan_]

clank clank clank

"I'm gaining on it!"

[AlexGTT]

clank clank clank

"I'm gaining on it!"

A wins a win!:hahaha:

[AlexGTT]

True. Your happy with it, that is the most important thing.:)

[DazBlackCSL]

Anyone for tennis :whistle:

I'm off for a fookin beer .. Yes another one .. Lol

my carbon bits look nice tho don't they and I love the ring, steak, birds, and chickens & bending spoons

[shane@mbtech]

Errrrm... but I thought you didn't trust any of these read outs :hahaha: ;) Don't take my word for it, speak to the guys @ DMS... if you don't like what they do to your CSL they will give you your money back... and they can even come to U for the re-map, so no excuses for being too far from Southampton ;) ... Don't knock it until U've tried it :whistle: Seriously though, I'm usually totally sceptical about such numbers from a N/A engine but when I drove my CSL after the RR re-map I was speechless ... well, actually full of praise.


The DMS guys are nice guys, ive worked with them on the mercedes side.
Not looked at their bmw stuff,

Had my porky 996tt remapped and it was seriously faster, but that is forced induction.

As long as you are happy and it feels faster that is all that matters.
The placebo effect does make it feel faster than it is though;)

[Mark CSL]

I can't believe that people remap a CSL :banghead:
After all BMW may cancel your warranty :bigcry: I know a car they have removed the bmw warranty from after it was remapped :whistle:


Buyer beware
______________

[mattCSLnut]

So it is making 280lb/ft at 6200? Impressive. Still think your earlier statement needs amending :blalalala:

Earlier statement has been re read and consequently amended :rolleye: apologies for the confusion :whistle:

[_Nathan_]

lol :smt055

[AlexGTT]

Errrrm... but I thought you didn't trust any of these read outs :hahaha: ;) Don't take my word for it, speak to the guys @ DMS... if you don't like what they do to your CSL they will give you your money back... and they can even come to U for the re-map, so no excuses for being too far from Southampton ;) ... Don't knock it until U've tried it :whistle: Seriously though, I'm usually totally sceptical about such numbers from a N/A engine but when I drove my CSL after the RR re-map I was speechless ... well, actually full of praise.

Matt, I don't want a re-map. Like you, I'm happy with mine.:smokin:

I don't trust the figures, just saying what it should be producing. My ref for that was from an engine that was on an engine dyno. Now, those figures I do trust.;)

[DuncanR]

Everywhere and anywhere! :)

I know her !! :hahaha:

[DuncanR]

The driver of said vehicle can confirm this.:whistle:

Dont tell him Pike !!

... the above statement is true to the best of my knowledge... you only caught me cos my car had been demapped ! ..... I dont recommend demapping ...it fooks the bottom end ...alledgdely :bigcry:

[DuncanR]

The fact that said cars engine lunched itself soon after doesn't do this statement much good Matt.:whistle: And, Nathan's comment on driver input is crucial. You saying im fat !! ... or just crap ...or both ;)

clank clank clank

"I'm gaining on it!"
Bastards !! :clown:

[DuncanR]

I can't believe that people remap a CSL :banghead:
After all BMW may cancel your warranty :bigcry: I know a car they have removed the bmw warranty from after it was remapped :whistle:


Buyer beware
______________

Glad a certain SB one wasnt when it recently had a slight problem .... I think that said 53 year old driver will retain the stock map.... so as to ALWAYS have an excuse for being slower !!

Matt....could DMS remap mine to make it ....quieter do you think ??:hahaha:

[glendog74]

53? BOUNCE said you were 65... :whistle:

[AlexGTT]

You saying im fat !! ... or just crap ...or both ;)


Bastards !! :clown:

Well, I'm sure you "lunched" once or twice over the weekend Duncan but I wasn't refering to you............................................... ........honest.:whistle:;)

According to reports you looked young for 65 Duncan. However, on learning you are in fact 53 we may have to issue another statement to clear this up!:hahaha: We must be accurate you know.:beer:

[mattCSLnut]

Matt, I don't want a re-map. Like you, I'm happy with mine.:smokin:

I don't trust the figures, just saying what it should be producing. My ref for that was from an engine that was on an engine dyno. Now, those figures I do trust.;)
I was only pullin' your pisser m8 :hahaha: ;) I agree with all U say :beer:

[Bounce]

53? BOUNCE said you were 65... :whistle::whistle::whistle::whistle:

[DuncanR]

:whistle::whistle::whistle:

Cock !
I may be 53 but ive had 3 sahgs since yesterday , and 1 with myself this morning !:thumbs:

[weyzi]

here is some feed back i got from mike at dms

hi

Many thanks for the enquiry. We have also had feed back from some other tuners and also potential customers saying the same thing.

Here is a typical dyno plot for a CSL with power measured before and after at the wheels. Car was remapped while still strapped down on the dyno following the standard reading in order to ensure before and after parameters were identical.