E46 M3 vs CSL observations

[outnumbered]

So I've had the CSL for nearly a week... and noticed a couple of differences from the E46 M3 I was driving previously.

1) There seems to be a much more obvious step in the power curve at the ~3500 rpm point, and it feels a bit lethargic below that point.

2) It wants to go sideways a lot more ! It's much easier to get the TC light to come on on r/bouts or just accelerating. I wouldn't have thought that 343 vs 360 bhp would make such a difference

Now I know my old M3 was a few bhp down on power compared to the average, so maybe that contributes to what I'm feeling, and the tyres on the CSL have obviously seen track action at some point, so perhaps have been overheated and no longer at their best.

[DuncanR]

Is there an easy way of finding out if the car's running with a remap ?
Give it the beans down a nice dual carriageway, if it reaches 170mph,(or +155mph) possibly remapped, but not defo remapped, at least de-limited though !:thumbs:...then again I could be wrong

[Bounce]

So I've had the CSL for nearly a week... and noticed a couple of differences from the E46 M3 I was driving previously.

1) There seems to be a much more obvious step in the power curve at the ~3500 rpm point, and it feels a bit lethargic below that point.

2) It wants to go sideways a lot more ! It's much easier to get the TC light to come on on r/bouts or just accelerating. I wouldn't have thought that 343 vs 360 bhp would make such a difference

Now I know my old M3 was a few bhp down on power compared to the average, so maybe that contributes to what I'm feeling, and the tyres on the CSL have obviously seen track action at some point, so perhaps have been overheated and no longer at their best.

Is there an easy way of finding out if the car's running with a remap ?I find i lose traction a lot more in the CSL,than my stock M3,i thought the DSC could be different in the CSL.Also if you dont have your sport button on you could be down 20-30 BHP,cos your flap is closed,or so im told.Maybe this is the difference in power your getting.;)

[Bounce]

Give it the beans down a nice dual carriageway, if it reaches 170mph,(or +155mph) possibly remapped, but not defo remapped, at least de-limited though !:thumbs:...then again I could be wrongThought you were gone;),can you bring me some cigs back.:smokin:

[glendog74]

Also if you dont have your sport button on you could be down 20-30 BHP,cos your flap is closed,or so im told.Maybe this is the difference in power your getting.;)

Sport mode selection and flap position have no affect whatsoever on power output...! One of the classic CSL myths!

Sport 'on' merely makes throttle response a little sharper and the induction roar a little more insistent!

[Bounce]

Sport mode selection and flap position have no affect whatsoever on power output...! One of the classic CSL myths!

Sport 'on' merely makes throttle response a little sharper and the induction roar a little more insistent!I thought this Rob,but just bin reading a post on another forum and Evolve have had CSL on the rollers with flap open then shut,and seems to be a bit more BHP with the flap open, i know you cant trust a lot of these rolling roads.So who knows.;)

[shimmy]

Sport mode selection and flap position have no affect whatsoever on power output...! One of the classic CSL myths!

Sport 'on' merely makes throttle response a little sharper and the induction roar a little more insistent!

Not true Rob

sport gives up to an extra 30bhp when the flap is working ie between 3500 and 5000 revs

[mattCSLnut]

You've forgotten the most obvious difference... the weight :whistle: CSL being quite bit lighter, especially if your regular M3 had all the toys and was down on power (as you've pointed out) anyway. Happy drifting :beer:


So I've had the CSL for nearly a week... and noticed a couple of differences from the E46 M3 I was driving previously.

1) There seems to be a much more obvious step in the power curve at the ~3500 rpm point, and it feels a bit lethargic below that point.

2) It wants to go sideways a lot more ! It's much easier to get the TC light to come on on r/bouts or just accelerating. I wouldn't have thought that 343 vs 360 bhp would make such a difference

Now I know my old M3 was a few bhp down on power compared to the average, so maybe that contributes to what I'm feeling, and the tyres on the CSL have obviously seen track action at some point, so perhaps have been overheated and no longer at their best.

Is there an easy way of finding out if the car's running with a remap ?

[Hazy]

Sport mode selection and flap position have no affect whatsoever on power output...! One of the classic CSL myths!

Sport 'on' merely makes throttle response a little sharper and the induction roar a little more insistent!

Nah that cant be right mate, have you seen the size of that hole?? When that flap is open its GOTTA gve more power, its the old adage, square root of power is more suck + better flow = bigger bang :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

[glendog74]

Nah that cant be right mate, have you seen the size of that hole?? When that flap is open its GOTTA gve more power, its the old adage, square root of power is more suck + better flow = bigger bang :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Whether Sport is selected 'on' or not the flap is fully open under full acceleration loading... same air flow into the hole. It's only the rev point at which the flap begins to open that changes, i.e. earlier when Sport is on.

[glendog74]

Where's NZ_M3 or The Gorilla when you need em? :hahaha:

[shimmy]

I find i lose traction a lot more in the CSL,than my stock M3,i thought the DSC could be different in the CSL..;)

What rubber are you wearing?

Makes a huge difference IMHO

have you had the RTAB and rear springs checked?

[shimmy]

Whether Sport is selected 'on' or not the flap is fully open under full acceleration loading... same air flow into the hole. It's only the rev point at which the flap begins to open that changes, i.e. earlier when Sport is on.

correct BUT for the time in each gear you are between 3500 and 5500(can never remember the right revs) you are running at full throttle with sport off the flap is shut and restricting air flow and for the part of each gear you are loosing 0-25:30 bhp

[Kev.H]

cold cups spin up easily

[glendog74]

correct BUT for the time in each gear you are between 3500 and 5500(can never remember the right revs) you are running at full throttle with sport off the flap is shut and restricting air flow and for the part of each gear you are loosing 0-25:30 bhp

I'm 'flapless' so wouldn't know ;)

I do like 'flaps' though... :hahaha:

[glendog74]

What rubber are you wearing?

Makes a huge difference IMHO


BOUNCE is using Goodyear F1 Assys at the moment - he didn't sound overly impressed with them when we met at the weekend... :whistle:

[outnumbered]

What rubber are you wearing?

Makes a huge difference IMHO

have you had the RTAB and rear springs checked?

PS2s, same as the old car had (although in CSL sizes).

I am wondering a bit about RTAB, as it does seem a bit twitchy accelerating. I'll check the springs.

[shimmy]

I'm 'flapless' so wouldn't know ;)

I do like 'flaps' though... :hahaha:

Thinking more about it I think the 30bhp max loss is only at the very top end of the revs so only applicable if you flap is broken and doesn't open.

loss in bhp will be far smaller 3500-5500

[DazBlackCSL]

BOUNCE is using Goodyear F1 Assys at the moment - he didn't sound overly impressed with them when we met at the weekend... :whistle:

Yeah Im kinda with bounce on that, I thought these Goodyear F1's were ok when I first got them, but then again not really done much in the dry or warm, snow and rain and a wet ring (:hahaha:) ! so not pushed em at all really.

This week have started to push on a bit, and there not as good as the normal PS2's, seem to lack confidence and grip when on it, feel like there always going to let go, although my suspension is pretty much set for track so skips on road a bit too...

NEED to get cups on again, need warm weather, need BEER and BBQ's ..thankyou please :whistle:

[AlexGTT]

NEED to get cups on again, need warm weather, need BEER and BBQ's ..thankyou please :whistle:

Oh yes. Mine are on before long.

Cool down the :beer: and warm up the BBQ Daz.:smokin:

[DazBlackCSL]

Oh yes. Mine are on before long.

Cool down the :beer: and warm up the BBQ Daz.:smokin:

Might actually do a little cheeky CSL Reg BBQ in the summer .. hmmm

And yes I think a couple more weeks and then cup tastic please ... for the rest of the year me thinks :smt055

[Bounce]

BOUNCE is using Goodyear F1 Assys at the moment - he didn't sound overly impressed with them when we met at the weekend... :whistle:There not the Assys,just normal F1s,had PS2s and conti m3s before,both a good tyre,PS2s being the best.The F1s were on the CSL when i got it,be interesting to see how the CSL runs with new rubber.;)

[weedavey]

BOUNCE is using Goodyear F1 Assys at the moment - he didn't sound overly impressed with them when we met at the weekend... :whistle:


..........not invited...............:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

[Bounce]

..........not invited...............:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:Ill give you a shout next time mate.Now the weathers getting better,perhaps we can go out for a couple of blasts.:thumbs::thumbs:

[weedavey]

Ill give you a shout next time mate.Now the weathers getting better,perhaps we can go out for a couple of blasts.:thumbs::thumbs:



:smt031 cheers!

[glendog74]

..........not invited...............:bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:

Oops! :goodman:

[shotokan]

mmmmmmmmm FLAPS :blalalala::blalalala::blalalala:

Hitting SPORT also makes the stability control a bit less ANAL??? :hahaha:

[outnumbered]

Well, I've found one root cause for a bit of wayward handling.... snapped offside spring. :bigcry: I'll see what difference getting that fixed makes, and pursue RTABs if it still feels odd.

[englebert]

You may as well get powerflex bushes, it improves things and the standard RTABs will only bite your ass some other day.

The CSL is quite a bit stiffer than the M3, so on anything other than smooth roads it's going to be skittish. The less compliance, the less grip on uneven surfaces.

Also, the front wheels/tyres are wider. Compared to the M3, the CSL consequently has less of an understeer balance.

[grumps]

I fitted new track arm bushes and bush arresters (alloy shims either side of bushes) and it tightened it up a treat more so under heavy braking loads more stable! and quiet compared to rose joints!

[outnumbered]

You may as well get powerflex bushes, it improves things and the standard RTABs will only bite your ass some other day.

The CSL is quite a bit stiffer than the M3, so on anything other than smooth roads it's going to be skittish. The less compliance, the less grip on uneven surfaces.

Also, the front wheels/tyres are wider. Compared to the M3, the CSL consequently has less of an understeer balance.

I'm going to stick to the standard bushes if it needs them, I've heard & seen mixed reports on the powerflex ones, and don't want to risk any issues with BMW if it ever needs the boot floor doing...

Agree with you on the rest, makes sense.

[DuncanR]

Thought you were gone;),can you bring me some cigs back.:smokin:

I was gone mate, but im back now ! Had to get rolling for me mum though bless her ! Loves her Golden Virginia ...another time, though TBH Tenerife wasnt that cheap,:bigcry: fookin euro is giving us grief out there !

[DuncanR]

Not true Rob

sport gives up to an extra 30bhp when the flap is working ie between 3500 and 5000 revs

:thumbs: extra 30 gee gees then all the time for me ...no flap !!:supz:

[glendog74]

:thumbs: extra 30 gee gees then all the time for me ...no flap !!:supz:

It's not all the time... :banghead:

[Bounce]

Well, I've found one root cause for a bit of wayward handling.... snapped offside spring. :bigcry: I'll see what difference getting that fixed makes, and pursue RTABs if it still feels odd.I also had my springs renewed today after Murketts found a broken one,the car did seem to handle better after.:thumbs:

[outnumbered]

Mine's now fixed too and it does feel better. But I've now found it's got a slighty sticky front caliper :( and I can't enough access to the top mounting bolt with a big enough breaker bar to get it off... so it's going to be back to the garage next week to be stripped and cleaned.