Porsche BREMBO 4 pots for the CSL ?

[mattCSLnut]

I have a pair of these as a back up braking plan for my CSL :whistle:. Has anyone done this conversion before ? or does anyone know of someone that has ? They are the front callipers made by "BREMBO" as fitted to PORSCHE 928 S4, 944 Turbo, 968 Club Sport, 911s (1989 onwards non Turbo) and Boxter S, I think. Any advise, pointers, useful comments are more then welcomed :thumbs:

[alexk]

These guys will be able to help you with brackets
http://mbt-engineering.de/EN/products/VA_E36_996C_345x28.html

They are very friendly and I think very professional !

[mattCSLnut]

These guys will be able to help you with brackets
http://mbt-engineering.de/EN/products/VA_E36_996C_345x28.html

They are very friendly and I think very professional !

THANX Alex :thumbs: GREAT link. I'll drop them an e-mail with my enquiry.

[shimmy]

im sure with those fitted well Matt youll have a good brake set up. What pad shape do they use (ie surface area)?

[mattCSLnut]

im sure with those fitted well Matt youll have a good brake set up. What pad shape do they use (ie surface area)?


These ... I'm either going to get the Performance Friction "Z" Track Day pads (same as I have at the moment ) or something from Pagid :beer:

[shimmy]

:thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

What sizes are the pistons in those callipers ?
Regards,

The Gorilla.

************************************************** *********

The piston sizes in my BREMBO Porsche front callipers are as follows:

The two smaller ones are 36 mm in diameter
The other two, larger ones are 45 mm in diameter

I've just sent an e-mail to a German tuning/machining company with an enquiry :whistle:

http://mbt-engineering.de/EN/products/VA_E36_996C_345x28.html

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

MBT will more than likely have
bracket adapters for mounting them.

From the pic posted they mount
correctly as trailing calipers.

Just make sure that when mounted
that their is no clearance issues
with the way the brake line hose
attaches to the caliper.

Some Brembos have a 45 degree lug
which the hose fits into and this can create
clearance / fitting issues.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[mattCSLnut]

Hi,

MBT will more than likely have
bracket adapters for mounting them.

From the pic posted they mount
correctly as trailing callipers.

Just make sure that when mounted
that their is no clearance issues
with the way the brake line hose
attaches to the calliper.

Some Brembos have a 45 degree lug
which the hose fits into and this can create
clearance / fitting issues.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


Hi m8.
I'm no expert but just to clarify "Trailing" callipers means they mount at the back of the wheel (near the lower part of the 'A' post, as it were) and the arrow on the calliper points in the direction of forward travel , RIGHT :whistle: ? On the other hand "Leading" callipers are mounted at the front of the wheel (near/towards the front bumper, as it were) :clown:

About the brake hoses... that's my next concern which I need to resolve :smt017. Would U know the tread size & shape of the hose end, the bit that screw into the O.E. CSL callipers ? THANX for the continuing flow of info :thumbs: BTW what's the exact size of the O.E. M3 CSL front discs (350 mm in diameter X 28 mm in thickness ???)

[7.77]

they are old style brembos, not sure they are ok with big size disc :whistle:
absolutly not the same design as 996 onwards.

[s.mac]

About the brake hoses... that's my next concern which I need to resolve :smt017. Would U know the tread size & shape of the hose end, the bit that screw into the O.E. CSL callipers ? THANX for the continuing flow of info :thumbs: BTW what's the exact size of the O.E. M3 CSL front discs (350 mm in diameter X 28 mm in thickness ???)

they are 345 x 28 fronts 328 x 28 rears

I have some OEM callipers in my garage if you need any pics of the fitments :)

[mattCSLnut]

they are old style brembos, not sure they are ok with big size disc :whistle:
absolutly not the same design as 996 onwards.


They are only "Old style" on the outside.. the PORSCHE logo being of a 3 dimensional type as oppose to later smooth finish with a white PORSCHE decal. Inside they take the same pad size 131 X 71 X 18 :whistle: . They are NOT to be confused with the " BIG REDS " that U get on Porsche 928 GTS, 964 RS & TURBO + 993 TURBO which are 4 pots but bigger still. :supz:

[mattCSLnut]

they are 345 x 28 fronts 328 x 28 rears

I have some OEM callipers in my garage if you need any pics of the fitments :)

That's very good of you to offer :thumbs: but don't go out of your way, just for lazy old me :hahaha: . Next time you're passing through the garage though, do take a few snaps :thumbs:

[The Gorilla]

Hi.

MattCSLnut- Your correct on the Calipers
regarding trailing etc.

Disc size you have, and at 345mm diam your at the
top spacing for those calipers.

If the calipers take a 30mm disc you
will fine on pad thickness as well
running a 28mm thick CSL Disc.

Most Brembo are metric [ie] M10x1 Male in,
convex into the calipers,
and at the other end will be M10x1
female concave, to take the hard line
from the car.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[DuncanR]

These ... I'm either going to get the Performance Friction "Z" Track Day pads (same as I have at the moment ) or something from Pagid :beer:
Fook me Matt, size of those pads you will go through the windscreen when you hit the brakes !! :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

Fook me Matt, size of those pads you will go through the windscreen when you hit the brakes !! :hahaha:
Time I bought myself some Recaro seat and harnesses then :whistle: init gov :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Hi.

MattCSLnut- Your correct on the Calipers
regarding trailing etc.

Disc size you have, and at 345mm diam your at the
top spacing for those calipers.

If the calipers take a 30mm disc you
will fine on pad thickness as well
running a 28mm thick CSL Disc.

Most Brembo are metric [ie] M10x1 Male in,
convex into the calipers,
and at the other end will be M10x1
female concave, to take the hard line
from the car.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


The original disc size around which these Brembo calipers hanged around was 304 mm X 32 mm :eeek:. Now that 's one PHAT rotor. I wonder if I'm going to have problems with that ? :whistle:

[7.77]

The original disc size around which these Brembo calipers hanged around was 304 mm X 32 mm :eeek:. Now that 's one PHAT rotor. I wonder if I'm going to have problems with that ? :whistle:

this is what i was talking about: 304mm vs 345 mm, i think they will not fit correctly

[mattCSLnut]

this is what i was talking about: 304mm vs 345 mm, i think they will not fit correctly


Can U be a bit more elaborate with your comments pleeeez :whistle:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- I think 7.77 is making
a refernce to the ''Caliper arc''.

ie] As the diam of the disc increases
then the 'arc'' or ''radius'' of the
caliper is increased to accommodate the
increase of ''Pad area'' radius.

From a 304mm diam Disc to a 345 mm
is a 20mm increase in disc radius diam.

I think you will be right on the top edge
as previously posted.

You just need to offer a CSL Disc into
your bembo caliper and see how it fits.
Cut a strip of thick carboard, about 2mm thick,
28mm wide, by about 250mm long.

Place this on the edge of the disc and
then offer the disc into the brembo
caliper without pads, and you will see
what line the arc of the disc takes in
relation to the arc of the caliper.

The strip of cardboard acts as the
distance spacer, so that the disc is
in approx the correct position within
the caliper.

I think it will just about go.

Most calipers go 20/30mm +/-.

Try it and see but I think you will just
be ok.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[7.77]

yes i can, but my english speaking/writting doesn't allow it :sad:

i try:

these calipers were design for small disc (+- 300 mm): old porsche were fitted with small size disc (they were big for the beginning of the 90's), but large disc (32 mm for some), till the 996. After this porsche has just increase the size of the disc but with the reduction of the thickness, except for the big red's.

In fact, the radius of the calipers is design just for the diameter of the disc.....so i'm not sure that old design (humm.... calipers made for 300 mm discs) calipers will fit 345 mm disc (I'm pretty sure of that).

I had on my old M3 E30, standard 993 calipers (made for 300 mm) fitted with 322 mm disc, and it was okay.....but it was the max diameter possible with these calipers, and i had to modify the fittings of the pad to fit correctly the pads onto the disc....it is just a question of radius of the casting of the calipers.

look at this picture (my M3 E30), and look at the small gap allowed by this combination, and the position of the pad:

http://i65.servimg.com/u/f65/11/05/96/93/p1050610.jpg

http://i65.servimg.com/u/f65/11/05/96/93/p1050611.jpg

so imagine this with 20 mm more !

the 993 standard calipers have the same size of pistons as the big reds 996, so they are a good choice for small size discs (up to 320 mm).

you can fit standard 996 calipers on 320/330 mm disc, but the size of the pistons is smaller than big reds and 993.

I think you have to find big reds, just because of the diameter of the discs you want to use.....and not because of the size of the pistons !

if you want, i have nearly new 996 turbo big reds eventually for sell....came from my cossie i sold:

http://i65.servimg.com/u/f65/11/05/96/93/sierra10.jpg

[mattCSLnut]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- I think 7.77 is making
a refernce to the ''Caliper arc''.

ie] As the diam of the disc increases
then the 'arc'' or ''radius'' of the
caliper is increased to accommodate the
increase of ''Pad area'' radius.

From a 304mm diam Disc to a 345 mm
is a 20mm increase in disc radius diam.

I think you will be right on the top edge
as previously posted.

You just need to offer a CSL Disc into
your bembo caliper and see how it fits.
Cut a strip of thick carboard, about 2mm thick,
28mm wide, by about 250mm long.

Place this on the edge of the disc and
then offer the disc into the brembo
caliper without pads, and you will see
what line the arc of the disc takes in
relation to the arc of the caliper.

The strip of cardboard acts as the
distance spacer, so that the disc is
in approx the correct position within
the caliper.

I think it will just about go.

Most calipers go 20/30mm +/-.

Try it and see but I think you will just
be ok.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


Ahhh... that's better :hahaha: message received loud & clear :thumbs: will do as suggested and report back, with pix :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

Ahh Voila :thumbs: now that U've enclosed some pix, I understand ;) Yes it's very cose + the pad has a bit of OFF set. Merci :thumbs: U know what they say... pictures speak a thousand words :thumbs: BUGGER about the BIG REDS... I just missed a PEFECT set off these last night (with NEW pads) on eBay for only £350 delivered. BUGGER! :bigcry:
I'm off to the garage to try the Brembo calliper over my 345 mm CSL discs... I'll report back (with pix, of course ;) ) ... but I may be sometime :whistle:



yes i can, but my english speaking/writting doesn't allow it :sad:

i try:

these calipers were design for small disc (+- 300 mm): old porsche were fitted with small size disc (they were big for the beginning of the 90's), but large disc (32 mm for some), till the 996. After this porsche has just increase the size of the disc but with the reduction of the thickness, except for the big red's.

In fact, the radius of the calipers is design just for the diameter of the disc.....so i'm not sure that old design (humm.... calipers made for 300 mm discs) calipers will fit 345 mm disc (I'm pretty sure of that).

I had on my old M3 E30, standard 993 calipers (made for 300 mm) fitted with 322 mm disc, and it was okay.....but it was the max diameter possible with these calipers, and i had to modify the fittings of the pad to fit correctly the pads onto the disc....it is just a question of radius of the casting of the calipers.

look at this picture (my M3 E30), and look at the small gap allowed by this combination, and the position of the pad:

http://i65.servimg.com/u/f65/11/05/96/93/p1050610.jpg

http://i65.servimg.com/u/f65/11/05/96/93/p1050611.jpg

so imagine this with 20 mm more !

the 993 standard calipers have the same size of pistons as the big reds 996, so they are a good choice for small size discs (up to 320 mm).

you can fit standard 996 calipers on 320/330 mm disc, but the size of the pistons is smaller than big reds and 993.

I think you have to find big reds, just because of the diameter of the discs you want to use.....and not because of the size of the pistons !

if you want, i have nearly new 996 turbo big reds eventually for sell....came from my cossie i sold:

http://i65.servimg.com/u/f65/11/05/96/93/sierra10.jpg

[7.77]

the pad has a bit of OFF set. Merci :thumbs:

necessary because of the fixing on the hub.....to have enough place for the fitting adapter, the caliper is too far.....so the pad has to be lowered....if no, the pad is about 10 mm out of the disc.

No problem with big disc for the adapter.....but it is another story with the famous "R A D I U S" :smokin:

[mattCSLnut]

OK, so I've been to my garage, stripped the single piston, BMW's excuse for a calliper :hahaha: of my CSL and tried the Porsche BREMBO 4 pots, for size. Looks like the calliper covers about 80 % of the 345 mm disc (pix below) but I'm not sure this will work :smt017. It seems I'll be needing bigger callipers :banghead: ... something like the BIG REDS off the 928 GTS or 993 TURBO

[shimmy]

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/steptoe-&-son.jpg

[mattCSLnut]

http://www.virginmedia.com/images/steptoe-&-son.jpg

Nice family photo Shimmy... which one are U ? :whistle:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- do you have a Brembo
Brake pad just to see where it
actually sits on the Disc ?

If the pad sits flush or just below the
top edge of the disc, then it will
work.

So long as all the Pad surface area is ''clamping'
onto the disc face.

If the top edge of the Pad sits higher
than the top edge of the disc, then
it will require the pads to be modified
so as to sit lower in the calipers.

Using the Std E46 M3 front discs would
work, but running smaller front discs
sort of defeats the objective.

Regards,

The Gorilla

[alexk]

Matt

Do you have brake pads to try again ?
I see in the other pics that the pad goes out of the caliper...

[mattCSLnut]

Matt

Do you have brake pads to try again ?
I see in the other pics that the pad goes out of the caliper...


Quick update... just got myself another pair of even bigger BREMBO Porsche 996/997 front callipers, complete with some used pads so I can continue with my experiment trying to fit Brembos over my CSLs front 345 mm OE discs :thumbs:

[alexk]

Matt, did the MBT guys provide any help ?
(I think they have adapters for these calipers)

[shimmy]

old Fuchs would have a field day with you Matt! ;)

[mattCSLnut]

Matt, did the MBT guys provide any help ?
(I think they have adapters for these calipers)


Hi Alex.
I've sent them an e-mail with regards to these brackets, price & availability over a week ago but no :smt009 replay as yet :smt017 I went as far as translating the English e-mail text to German so they have a duel language e-mail, just incase but still, no answer.

[mattCSLnut]

old Fuchs would have a field day with you Matt! ;)

I think I would have just told him to Fuchs Off :blalalala:

[alexk]

Hi Alex.
I've sent them an e-mail with regards to these brackets, price & availability over a week ago but no :smt009 replay as yet :smt017 I went as far as translating the English e-mail text to German so they have a duel language e-mail, just incase but still, no answer.


I remember that their response SLE ([sic] Service Level Expectation) is around 10 days.
I can give them a call tomorrow if you don't get an answer.
Drop me a pm with your questions and I will bug them again !!!

PS : it might have to do that you are in UK and I am in CH, so 'mentally' I am close and you are far away... lucky guess though

[Mark CSL]

Nice family photo Shimmy... which one are U ? :whistle:
Shimmy is on the right :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

Shimmy is on the right :hahaha:
Good to put a name to a face, finally :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

I remember that their response SLE ([sic] Service Level Expectation) is around 10 days.
I can give them a call tomorrow if you don't get an answer.
Drop me a pm with your questions and I will bug them again !!!

PS : it might have to do that you are in UK and I am in CH, so 'mentally' I am close and you are far away... lucky guess though

Hi Alex.
THANX for the offer :thumbs: Lets give them a few more days and if no answer then I'll take U up on your kind offer. Two simple questions really... availability and price for a pair of conversion brackets. :thumbs: They'll prbably take U more seriously being a fellow mainland European ;)

[mattCSLnut]

Finally I have the Porsche Brembo front callipers that fit PERFECTLY :thumbs: (as if they were made for the CSL) Pix below :thumbs: All I need now are the conversion brackets from MBT and a bit of good luck :beer:

[phat///M3]

Those look a lot better than the other ones.

You can get a local shop to machine the brackets for you.

[mattCSLnut]

Those look a lot better than the other ones.

You can get a local shop to machine the brackets for you.

They are spot on... with the pads sitting on the CSL disc, millimeter perfect :beer: Yes I could ask a local machining shop but they would require precision, technical drawings and I just don't trust myself with that :whistle: I'd rather buy a set that's proven and specifically designed for this conversion :thumbs:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- in the first set of photos the
caliper appears quite 'boxy'.

Have you checked for the X clearance, which
is the inner wheel spoke clearance over the
calipers ?

Spacers will of course help, but just to be sure.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[mattCSLnut]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- in the first set of photos the
caliper appears quite 'boxy'.

Have you checked for the X clearance, which
is the inner wheel spoke clearance over the
calipers ?

Spacers will of course help, but just to be sure.

Regards,

The Gorilla.
I thought of that too but no, I haven't had a chance to physically put the wheel on while the Brembo calliper dangles there without the appropriate bracket (it's all a bit wobbly without it) but the pix make it look tighter then it is. Will be having another try tomorrow with the aid of zip-ties , weather permitting :whistle:

[7.77]

are they the big reds (996 turbo) ?

do you have enough clearance between caliper and mountings to allow enough thickness for the bracket ? (big reds have longer mountings than standard 996 calipers)

[mattCSLnut]

are they the big reds (996 turbo) ?
do you have enough clearance between caliper and mountings to allow enough thickness for the bracket ? (big reds have longer mountings than standard 996 calipers)

They are standard 996/997/ Boxter 'S' callipers, NOT the Turbo's "Big Reds". The ones I have are off a 2008 Boxter 'S' Porsche part number: 996 351 425.

[alexk]

Matt, is the pad surface larger ?

[mattCSLnut]

Matt, is the pad surface larger ?

I presume you're asking if the Porsche pads are larger then the standard O.E. CSL pads... they look like they are, but I've not laid both set of pads out, side by side, as yet. I'll do it over the weekend, measure them up and let U know for 100% sure. :thumbs:
By the way, MBT still haven't replayed to my e-mail so it's best if U could call them for me (if and when U have a free moment) and get the price for the universal adaptor brackets (141 I think) & the bolt kit ;)


http://mbt-engineering.de/EN/products/VA_E36_996C_345x28.html

[alexk]

Matt,

I can try to ring them tomorrow (I don't think they will pick up).
I can certainly give them a ring monday.

[mattCSLnut]

Matt,

I can try to ring them tomorrow (I don't think they will pick up).
I can certainly give them a ring monday.
I would appreciate it if U could :beer: THANX in advance

[mattCSLnut]

Matt, is the pad surface larger ?

Hi Alex.
I had a good look yesterday and can confirm 100% that the Porsche pads in the P. Brembo callipers I have, are larger by about 25% :thumbs: pic below. CSL pad on the left and Porsche pad on the right (which to me looks a bit funky with random cut-outs & extra weights).

[mattCSLnut]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- in the first set of photos the
calliper appears quite 'boxy'.

Have you checked for the X clearance, which
is the inner wheel spoke clearance over the
callipers ?

Spacers will of course help, but just to be sure.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


Hey Gorilla
Looks like you are absolutely right ... I need spacers (probably 12 mm) to mount my CSL 19" fronts, to clear these "chunky" Brembos I have. Mind you, the front could do with a wider track anyway :thumbs: Also, I tried one of the four 9J 18" M3 rears I have for summer Track use over the Brembos and they do clear, without the need for spacers. THANX for your continuing advice :beer:

[phat///M3]

They are standard 996/997/ Boxter 'S' callipers, NOT the Turbo's "Big Reds". The ones I have are off a 2008 Boxter 'S' Porsche part number: 996 351 425.

Do have you have them for front and rear or just fronts?

If you post up the distance between the mounting holes (on hub and that of the caliper) and the thickness of the bracket needed (roughly) I can have a look as I have some brackets in my storage and who knows you might get lucky and they will work.

[mattCSLnut]

I know you guys have been on tender hooks :hahaha: waiting for an update on " Projekt BREMBO " on my CSL. ;) :hahaha:
Well the good news is... they are ON :thumbs: and after a 50 mile test drive have already proved themselves a worthy improvement
over the stock BMW OE single, sliding piston wrongness, excuse for callipers ( :smt064 Fusch ) :blalalala:

The ultimate test will take place @ the Green Hell, over the coming weekend :thumbs:
Pix below of Porsche BREMBO front brake solutions :smt112 I THANK You :supz:

[Dan]

Good job well done there mate, you can show me how well the stop over the weekend! ;)

[alexk]

Well done mate !
They look awesome and I am sure they will perform very well.

You got the only part that is worthy/valuable from a Porsche... the brakes :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

Well done mate !
They look awesome and I am sure they will perform very well.

You got the only part that is worthy/valuable from a Porsche... the brakes :whistle:

THANX m8 :beer: I hope so... " best part form the Porker " :hahaha: and they don't even make that part :blalalala:
Grazie mille Sinior BREMBO :beer:

[mattCSLnut]

Good job well done there mate, you can show me how well the stop over the weekend! ;)

Pax laps solutions are indeed on offer :beer:

[CT1]

Hi CSL Matt

I've being following this thread with interest and see you have managed to fit the Porsche calipers ok...this mod looks good does it work as hoped? Where did you source the brackets to fit the calipers as I would like to carry out a similar mod to my M3. I would need the larger CSL disks but as mine are near the lower wear limit I need new ones anyway.

CT

[mattCSLnut]

Hi CSL Matt

I've being following this thread with interest and see you have managed to fit the Porsche callipers ok...this mod looks good does it work as hoped? Where did you source the brackets to fit the calipers as I would like to carry out a similar mod to my M3. I would need the larger CSL disks but as mine are near the lower wear limit I need new ones anyway.

CT
Hell Yeah :supz:
They were a revelation :thumbs: both at the Ring & Spa, after the BMW O.E. single piston wrongness, even with slightly worpped discs, damaged previously by the before mentioned BMW O.E. wrongness :banghead:
I'd say they are not as FANTASTIC as the AP Racing SIX pots (AlexK :supz: and others) but then again BREMBO don't make S**T brakes and these mono block Four Pots are VERY light and use larger pads with the refinement of four pistons pushing them with finesse and NO brake fade :thumbs:
My whole objective of this BREMBO CSL project was to retain & utilise the O.E. CSL 345 mm floating discs as they are great and I don't like wasting such good stuff. :hahaha:
Yes, you will need CSL front discs (I'm buying my NEW ones today) but the biggest obstacle is getting the correct bracket solutions as they are NOT readily available off the shelve, however I might have solutions ;) :beer:

[mole]

They seemed to work very well from where I was sitting this weekend :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

They seemed to work very well from where I was sitting this weekend :thumbs:

:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: even with the poor old, slightly warped, grouch CSL discs :thumbs:
GREAT lap solutions @ the Ring & Spa Mr.Mole :beer:

[CT1]

Hell Yeah :supz:
They were a revelation :thumbs: both at the Ring & Spa, after the BMW O.E. single piston wrongness, even with slightly worpped discs, damaged previously by the before mentioned BMW O.E. wrongness :banghead:
I'd say they are not as FANTASTIC as the AP Racing SIX pots (AlexK :supz: and others) but then again BREMBO don't make S**T brakes and these mono block Four Pots are VERY light and use larger pads with the refinement of four pistons pushing them with finesse and NO brake fade :thumbs:
My whole objective of this BREMBO CSL project was to retain & utilise the O.E. CSL 345 mm floating discs as they are great and I don't like wasting such good stuff. :hahaha:
Yes, you will need CSL front discs (I'm buying my NEW ones today) but the biggest obstacle is getting the correct bracket solutions as they are NOT readily available off the shelve, however I might have solutions ;) :beer:

Sounds really good :thumbs:what solution do you have for the brackets?

CT

[mattCSLnut]

Sounds really good :thumbs:what solution do you have for the brackets?

CT
Possible availability solutions :beer:
p.m. me for more

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- Nice to see all your effort has
worked out.

I'll expect that there is virtually little if any
difference between your set up and AP,s
or whatever.

Plus you have a little less unsprung weight.

Easy Disc replacement, off the shelf, a very
good overall package.

Are you going to fit a biais valve into
the rear brake line now, so that you can
alter the rear biais when wet etc ?

Easy to do, route via cockpit, and then you
can adjust to suit conditions as driving.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[alexk]

I can confirm that the Brembo solutions are good brake solutions !
:thumbs:

Besides that, they also look cool.
Very good mod !

[mattCSLnut]

i can confirm that the brembo solutions are good brake solutions !
:thumbs:

Besides that, they also look cool.
Very good mod !


Thank U please :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- Nice to see all your effort has
worked out.

I'll expect that there is virtually little if any
difference between your set up and AP,s
or whatever.

Plus you have a little less unsprung weight.

Easy Disc replacement, off the shelf, a very
good overall package.

Are you going to fit a biais valve into
the rear brake line now, so that you can
alter the rear biais when wet etc ?

Easy to do, route via cockpit, and then you
can adjust to suit conditions as driving.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


Hey Gorila.
First of all a BIG THANX for all your invaluable input :thumbs: Much appreciated :beer:

Indeed BREMBO brake solutions have worked out well for me and earlier on today I purchased a pair of shiny NEW CSL discs for £100 each + VAT from E.C.P. Made by ATE which I believe are the same maker of the ones sold through the BMW network @ £156 + VAT :whistle: Can U confirm please ?
My only limitation that I've been made aware of is I mustn't try running very HOT pads like the Pagid RS29s with my set up as they may warp my CSL discs, which have a smaller contact surface to the larger AP racing ones. Having said that I've settled on a medium compound pad, the Pagid RS4-2 aka Pagid Blue and they seemed perfect so far + only £170 + VAT for a set. :thumbs:
With regards to the biais valve, do I really need one ??? After 23 laps of the Ring and 16 laps of Spa this weekend, in all sorts of weather (but mainly rain :bigcry: ) I didn't feel the need for this mod.:smt017 Surely the electronic trickery of the car will sort this out itself, No ???

[glennCSL]

Matt the brakes look awesome and glad to hear they were up to the task. :thumbs:

Have you changed the rears or left them standard?

I can see me looking into this option in the future.

[mattCSLnut]

Matt the brakes look awesome and glad to hear they were up to the task. :thumbs:

Have you changed the rears or left them standard?

I can see me looking into this option in the future.

THANX :thumbs:
The rear callipers & discs are O.E. standard however pads are Performance Friction Z rated TD pads for now, Goodridge braided brake lines all round and ATE Racing Blue fluid through the veins :beer:
Start looking now as the bracket solutions are a bit tricky. I can get them but minimum order of 6 units (3 sets) is required by the Machine shop I use.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- A rear in line Brake bias valve will
increase or reduce the amount of rear Brake.

Most cars are around 70% front 30 % rear.

When you fit a Bigger Brake to the front
this ratio can alter to say something like
75% front 25% rear.

You would not really notice this in normal
driving conditions.

Bigger brakes do not dramatically alter the
brake grip or bite, but they do increase the
their ability to maintain the brake pressure over much
longer repeated periods. Much less fade

Come the rain though, and you would need
to restore the original front / rear brake ratio
and even increase it in really wet conditions,
by having more rear bias.

Something like 65% front 35% rear.

So by having the bias valve in line for the rear
allows you to compensate for the changes.



Regards,

The Gorilla.

[mattCSLnut]

THANX for the explanation Gorilla :thumbs:
Maybe I should just look into BREMBO rear brake solutions over standard rear discs :beer: or get the AP Racing rear callipers ?
Thank you please :whistle:

Hi,

MattCSLnut- A rear in line Brake bias valve will
increase or reduce the amount of rear Brake.

Most cars are around 70% front 30 % rear.

When you fit a Bigger Brake to the front
this ratio can alter to say something like
75% front 25% rear.

You would not really notice this in normal
driving conditions.

Bigger brakes do not dramatically alter the
brake grip or bite, but they do increase the
their ability to maintain the brake pressure over much
longer repeated periods. Much less fade

Come the rain though, and you would need
to restore the original front / rear brake ratio
and even increase it in really wet conditions,
by having more rear bias.

Something like 65% front 35% rear.

So by having the bias valve in line for the rear
allows you to compensate for the changes.



Regards,

The Gorilla.

[grumps]

Just picked up your thread and very interesting it is! I have a full set of big reds of a 996 gt3 same as turbo that i'am about to fit! but i think i will struggle to mount the rears as they seem to overhang the standard rear mount but will keep you posted.

[mattCSLnut]

Just picked up your thread and very interesting it is! I have a full set of big reds of a 996 gt3 same as turbo that i'am about to fit! but i think i will struggle to mount the rears as they seem to overhang the standard rear mount but will keep you posted.

I think you'll find the BIG Reds are way too BIG for the standard 345 mm CSL front discs, as well :bigcry: I've tried that option first, before settling for the next BREMBO size down from the BIG Reds :thumbs:
I'll be interested to see how U get on :beer: especially with the rears :whistle:

[daniel]

Good read. Thanks for posting this up. I am tempted now:thumbs:Might have a look at ebay later.

Btw where did you get new discs for 100! that is a good price.

[grumps]

I did ring up simpsons about some pf discs and bells (ap) and csl offset 355 dia i think but the responce was don't waste your time so now i want to do it even more! I also found from the local porsche stealer that the gt3 disc dia is 334 and 32 wide! and looking at yours they do look the dogs nuts! I will have to get rid of the porsche logo though:thumbs:I think the discs came from euro car parts reading bellow.

[mattCSLnut]

Good read. Thanks for posting this up. I am tempted now:thumbs:Might have a look at ebay later.

Btw where did you get new discs for 100! that is a good price.

My local E.C.P. and they are the proper ATE ones (ATE being the O.E. maker of the single piston wrongness BMW call brakes callipers :whistle: ) That price however was some what discounted as I also bought the PAGID RS 4-2 aka Pagid Blue pads, at the same time :thumbs: Give me a shout (pm) if you're struggling :beer:
BTW 9J 18s Track wheel solutions fit straight over the BREMBO CSL solutions without the need for spacers :thumbs: Thank you please

[daniel]

Thanks

[shimmy]

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/30513/BMW_E46_M3CSL__Z4M_brake_brackets_to_fit_BMW_Perfo rmance_6_pot_Brembo.html

[daniel]

What disc size is normally used with boxster caliper? I am surprised that the big reds from the 996 turbo only just a 330mm disc! matt, Did you ever test fit a set of these?

[mattCSLnut]

What disc size is normally used with boxster caliper? I am surprised that the big reds from the 996 turbo only just a 330mm disc! matt, Did you ever test fit a set of these?

I did try and it would have been nice ... however the Turbo,GT2 & GT3 six pots aka the "BIG REDS" are way too big for the CSL's 345 mm floating discs. U see, the Porsche discs are not the floating type like the CSL units, and their friction surface is larger, despite the disc diameter being smaller so the brake pads used in the BIG REDS are too big for the friction surface of the CSL disc which are bigger but with smaller friction surface. U're still with me ??? ;):hahaha: The middle part of the CSL disc is so much bigger then the Porker one.
Pix below show U the difference in calliper size as well, the bigger one being the "BIG RED" You can't even use the same brackets I had made for me as the mounting bolts are further apart :bigcry:

[mattCSLnut]

http://www.racecarsdirect.com/listing/30513/BMW_E46_M3CSL__Z4M_brake_brackets_to_fit_BMW_Perfo rmance_6_pot_Brembo.html


Good find Shimmy :thumbs: It's close, but no cigar :blalalala:
These brackets are only for the BMW 6 pot callipers which I've read mixed reviews about. Mainly saying that these callipers struggle to dissipative heat under repetitive hard braking (i.e. Track work) resulting in the rubber piston seals melting out :whistle: BREMBO four pots are "Tried & Tested" :supz:

[grumps]

Are the big reds 6 pots? as your picture shows only 4 pots on both calipers if they are only 4 pots then my big reds ain't so big! They did however come from a 2002 gt3, the size difference does look the same as my set front and rear though? If i wasn't so tight i would buy a propper set...

[daniel]

I did try and it would have been nice ... however the Turbo,GT2 & GT3 six pots aka the "BIG REDS" are way too big for the CSL's 345 mm floating discs. U see, the Porsche discs are not the floating type like the CSL units, and their friction surface is larger, despite the disc diameter being smaller so the brake pads used in the BIG REDS are too big for the friction surface of the CSL disc which are bigger but with smaller friction surface. U're still with me ??? ;):hahaha: The middle part of the CSL disc is so much bigger then the Porker one.
Pix below show U the difference in calliper size as well, the bigger one being the "BIG RED" You can't even use the same brackets I had made for me as the mounting bolts are further apart :bigcry:


http://www.taylorgifts.com/IMAGES/P35085B.JPG:thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Are the big reds 6 pots? as your picture shows only 4 pots on both calipers if they are only 4 pots then my big reds ain't so big! They did however come from a 2002 gt3, the size difference does look the same as my set front and rear though? If i wasn't so tight i would buy a propper set...
Turbo Big Reds = 4 pots... GT3 RS = 6 pots Brembo calliper solutions :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

:hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

http://www.taylorgifts.com/IMAGES/P35085B.JPG:thumbs:

[grumps]

Also have a pair of boxter s fronts, I have now identified my others as 996 turbo/mk1 gt3/2007 on 997carrera 4 pots! all is now clearer!!:whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

:smt115 BREMBO CSL solutions :smt038

Also have a pair of boxter s fronts, I have now identified my others as 996 turbo/mk1 gt3/2007 on 997carrera 4 pots! all is now clearer!!:whistle:

[grumps]

Hi mattcsl did you get my pm as not sure it sent properly.

[CT1]

Good find Shimmy :thumbs: It's close, but no cigar :blalalala:
These brackets are only for the BMW 6 pot callipers which I've read mixed reviews about. Mainly saying that these callipers struggle to dissipative heat under repetitive hard braking (i.e. Track work) resulting in the rubber piston seals melting out :whistle: BREMBO four pots are "Tried & Tested" :supz:

Matt if you could match the price of these then that would be a goer.

[CT1]

:smt115 BREMBO CSL solutions :smt038

Hi Matt

Did you get these brackets done?
Regards
CT

[mattCSLnut]

Hi Matt

Did you get these brackets done?
Regards
CT

pm sent ;)

[CT1]

Hi Matt

Have you got any brackets available?

Regards

CT

[grumps]

Thanks very much matt got the brakes on today and they work a treat:thumbs:

[Csl_Moff]

Hi Matt

you have pm

[mattCSLnut]

Thanks very much matt got the brakes on today and they work a treat:thumbs:

Sorry for a late replay. I've just come back from my Swiss mountain pass CSL adventure :whistle: with enough CSL pix solutions to blow up the servers :smt047

Glad to hear it all worked out for you mate :thumbs:
Welcome to the illusive CSL BREMBO braking solutions Club ;) :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

Hi Matt

you have pm
THANX ;) pm.ed you back

[DuncanR]

with enough CSL pix solutions to blow up the servers :smt047
;) :hahaha:

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooo !!!!!:bigcry:



WB Matt, hope you had agood time .

[mattCSLnut]

Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo ooo !!!!!:bigcry:
WB Matt, hope you had agood time .

:hahaha: :hahaha: :whistle:
Fantastic time has been had :thumbs: THANX for asking mate.
CSL Swiss mountain pass pic solutions will be released in a safe, organised manner ;) I promise :whistle:

[alexk]

:hahaha: :hahaha: :whistle:
Fantastic time has been had :thumbs: THANX for asking mate.
CSL Swiss mountain pass pic solutions will be released in a safe, organised manner ;) I promise :whistle:

Is the server upgradation ready, or do we have to do the needfull ?

AM BE RGEERRRRRR

:whistle:

[glendog74]

:hahaha: :hahaha: :whistle:
Fantastic time has been had :thumbs: THANX for asking mate.
CSL Swiss mountain pass pic solutions will be released in a safe, organised manner ;) I promise :whistle:

I was beginning to wonder where you were hiding! :whistle:

Come on then - indulge us... :bigcry:

[alexk]

I was beginning to wonder where you were hiding! :whistle:

Come on then - indulge us... :bigcry:

Picture solutions @ CH
Matt's pictures are simply UNBELIEVABLE.
I have them as background and I also use them to piss off some retard-talentless-wannabe-photographers characters at work :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

I was beginning to wonder where you were hiding! :whistle:

Come on then - indulge us... :bigcry:

OK... here's one to wet :drool: your appetite :whistle:
Top of St. Gottardo pass
More to follow tomorrow :whistle:

[glendog74]

OK... here's one to wet :drool: your appetite :whistle:
Top of St. Gottardo pass
More to follow tomorrow :whistle:

Very nice Matt - i like that! :thumbs:

I'm gonna have to tag along on your next Euro trek - so that i can get a few pics of my car up mountains lol :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

Very nice Matt - i like that! :thumbs:

I'm gonna have to tag along on your next Euro trek - so that i can get a few pics of my car up mountains lol :hahaha:

Any time G-Dog ;)
My CSL was in good company running up the mountain passes with her Swiss cousin :thumbs:

[glendog74]

:smt055

[AlexGTT]

Very nice Matt. Thread in photo section. Thank you please.:smokin:

Oh my God! Can you imagine the picture whoring that'll happen now!;):thumbs:

[shimmy]

:thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Very nice Matt. Thread in photo section. Thank you please.:smokin:

Oh my God! Can you imagine the picture whoring that'll happen now!;):thumbs:


NO need to imagine mate :whistle: you're about to experience a whole world of pain ;) :hahaha:

[AlexGTT]

NO need to imagine mate :whistle: you're about to experience a whole world of pain ;) :hahaha:

I best get my beers chilled down, it's gonna be a long evening. Anyone else joining me.:beer::whistle::hahaha:

[sailorbaz]

Look forward to these, I fear my Ships internet is going to take a BEASTING later on today.

[Bounce]

First 2 pics looking good Matt.:thumbs::thumbs:

[DazBlackCSL]

I best get my beers chilled down, it's gonna be a long evening. Anyone else joining me.:beer::whistle::hahaha:

Did you need to Ask :whistle: :beer:

[Foz01]

Matt, dropped you a pm re these :)

[mattCSLnut]

Matt, dropped you a pm re these :)
PM received and replayed to :thumbs:

[_Nathan_]

Is that Foz01 from the Evo forum for many years back?

[m3rosco]

matt, i've pm'ed you as well!

[Foz01]

Is that Foz01 from the Evo forum for many years back?

It is indeed :) nathan, ex noble driver iirc?

Just got myself a daily driver 03 M3 and adding shiny bits, fancied a csl but couldn't justify it for the driving I do ( have a k20 s1 Elise, silly evo and the family Chelsea tractor so STD M3 does me fine( well I say fine but won't stop me doing all sorts to it :)

Cheers
Lowell

[_Nathan_]

Yup, that is me :thumbs:

What happened to that S2000 you had, that was awesome.

Thinking about a standard M3 myself later in the year.

[mattCSLnut]

Yup, that is me :thumbs:

What happened to that S2000 you had, that was awesome.


Gents... pictures of the race car PLEEEEEEZ ! :thumbs:

[Foz01]

I sold it to a couple of pilots whose intention was to do britcar and ultimately the vln 24 hour race at the ring, I never did find out if they did that, will try and do some digging..

I will fire up a video, will need to dig I out as was a few years ago, was running a straight through exhaust and jenvey throttle bodies, best sounding 4 pot this side of a dtm, E30 S14 imho:thumbs:

Been through a fearsome amount of metal since then..:whistle:

[steve2009]

hey noob here. I dont have a csl but got a m3 and very tempted to through with this upgrade as i agree the standard brakes are pants especially the m3s. are these mounts still available?

[mattCSLnut]

hey noob here. I dont have a csl but got a m3 and very tempted to through with this upgrade as i agree the standard brakes are pants especially the m3s. are these mounts still available?
PM sent ;)

[roberts]

Matt, how you find the RS4-2 pads in comparison the PFz pads?

I am in process of doing this conversation and currently run PFz in the OEM caliper, but they do not offer a Z rated compound in the Porsche Brembo Caliper fitment.

RS4-2s seem the logical alternative, but would like some feedback?

[mattCSLnut]

Matt, how you find the RS4-2 pads in comparison the PFz pads?

I am in process of doing this conversation and currently run PFz in the OEM caliper, but they do not offer a Z rated compound in the Porsche Brembo Caliper fitment.

RS4-2s seem the logical alternative, but would like some feedback?

PMed you back ;)

[mattCSLnut]

So finally I manned up :thumbs: and got my Porsche BREMBO callipers on the rear of the CSL (to go with the ones up front I've had for a while now :thumbs: ) to complete my BBK set up. First on road impressions are very good :thumbs: ... almost had an over enthusiastic and slightly too eager 335i driver through the back window :whistle: when he first failed to keep up with me only to be then out braked as well :banghead: just as his Turbos came on song... :gayfight:
Some pix below

[glendog74]

Very nice mate :thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Very nice mate :thumbs:
Cheers Robster :beer: Not bad for home made, Pikey brake solutions ;) :hahaha:

[0-60Motorsports]

Looks great

[8ARF]

hello guys, hope you don't mind me gate crashing this thread. ive read with great interest about this conversion and thought I would have a stab at it myself.
although my car is a e46 compact, there will probably be some similarities between CSL and "normal" e46.
my car has 345mm CSL front discs (ATE ebay special £250 the pair) and 328mm e46 m3 (OEM). the calipers came off a very nice boxster s and came with pads. the pads look quite new som I may use these initially until I can find some suitable track biased pads.
a couple of emails to rally road in the states to confirm which caliper bracket I needed, these are e46 non M fronts and e36 M3 rears!.

as ive written on here before regards rear handbrake assembly issues I wont bore you to death but I think its now sorted and will soon find out at MOT time if my solution was a success.

theres been much talk of machining calipers etc but upto now, I havnt seen anything with my set up to suggest any machining is required.

I could do with some advice as to which way round the rear calipers need to go, ive bought new Porsche link pipes from jasmine porschalink (very local to me) in order to swap round the bleed nipples but the calipers have two diferent sized pistons inside and wondered which piston is the lead piston. I know if they are incorrectly fitted there are uneven pad wear issues.

finally, don't bother with rally road brake lines, apparently, they don't stand upto much of our damp climate so instead, I contacted Porschecalipers for advice and they supplied me with some nice stainless lines. they also do the brackets but in my opinion, the rally road brackets are very well machined and the material they are made of is top drawer!

heres some (rather poor)
images. remember, its a compact ;)

rear clipers
7628
rear calipers are on
7629
new link pies from jasmine porschalink (£67 the pair!)
7630
front set up
7631

7632

[jay2020]

I have a set of front and rear boxster s calipers from a 2002 model, anyone know whether these will fit? Also a parts list is much appreciated.

Thanks in advance.

[Clubber]

Just came across this. Looks like a great upgrade without dropping a fortune on AP's. Any ebay links for these calipers ?

[mattCSLnut]

Just came across this. Looks like a great upgrade without dropping a fortune on AP's. Any ebay links for these calipers ?
PM sent :thumbs:

[Stumpy]

PM sent :thumbs:

????