M3 CSL to 328i Sport (New Steed)

[Craig]

Pah, sod all these 'M3 to CSL' threads REAL* men down grade and go all minimaltec, no flappy paddle gearboxes, no fancy carbon fibrey bits what you want is one of these;

http://www.cmpracing.co.uk/uploads/bmwsport_1.jpg

http://www.cmpracing.co.uk/uploads/bmwsport_2.jpg

http://www.cmpracing.co.uk/uploads/bmwsport_3.jpg

1998 R-reg 328i Sport, it has the good engine (no nikasil issues) however the downside to this is its lacking an LSD. Couldn't turn it down though, 166,000 miles did put me off but then I saw the amont of service history and drove the car, it felt tighter than several sub-40k cars I've owned.

To put it in perspective, the bad points, which the previous owner told me about are; a bit of rust coming through drivers arch, and a few stone chips... that is all on a 12 year old car, not even any interior wear. The first aid kit is still in its plastic wrapper, the tool kit is complete, warning triangle is there, theres two BBS centre cap removal tools (standard + optional extra) plus an un-used BBS spare split rim in the boot with brand new original Michelin.

I also got a set of e36 M3 saloon alloy complete with Hankook RS2's, an un-fitted DaveF induction kit and a few other bits and bob's. All for less than £2500!!!

Plans are to turn it into my track car, however been using it as my daily so going to transform it slowly over the next few months. Once I've gone through all the basics checking its all sturdy, i'll probably start by fitting a 3.0 M3 limited slip diff, then poly bushing the car. After that, plans range from big brakes to a full cage all depending on how well I get on with the car I guess.

* = Men who have spaffed £30k down the side of a barrier. :bigcry:

[mattCSLnut]

Don't forget to mention the FREE Ring sticker :bigcry: Take it off, for better luck, before you venture out on the Nordschleife again :whistle:

[Craig]

'Ring sticker, Northloop sticker and a Mazda-on-Track!?! sticker have all been removed... not really a fan of stickers on cars.

[mattCSLnut]

'Ring sticker, Northloop sticker and a Mazda-on-Track!?! sticker have all been removed... not really a fan of stickers on cars.

:thumbs: :beer:

[weedavey]

* = Men who have spaffed £30k down the side of a barrier. :bigcry:


:hahaha: Love your self critique. Nice motor, sounds like the elusive "unmolested example" obtained. Well done.

[sailorbaz]

'Ring sticker, Northloop sticker and a Mazda-on-Track!?! sticker have all been removed... not really a fan of stickers on cars.

Apart from a www.cslregister.com sticker no? Or maybe a www.328isportregister.com sticker??? :hahaha:

Sorry mate, alot of car for the money mate, well done. Good find. All this for the price of a new CSL Bumper, mental!

[Craig]

Actually, I lie I don't mind subtle well placed stickers, was thinking about asking Mark for some CSL Register ones so that I can look cool, haha.

[glendog74]

Nice car Craig ;)

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Craig- E36 Cross Brace underneath first,
then Superflex Poly [Race version],
fit the harder sprod RTAB's, front top
steel one piece strut brace, and for
around 350/400 beer tokens you
will sharpen it up, and take some
of the flex out of it.

Keep your eyes peeled for a set of
850 4 POT Alloy Brembo's, usually around
200 ish, which will
run a E46 M3 front disc.

Rears, Z3M Coupe Calipers /discs, which will give you
300mmx20mm vented rear disc and retain the
handbrake.

This set up will stop a E36 300 bhp + evo
on a sixpence, and should give change from
1k.

Just some ideas for the new red beast.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Craig]

Just what I wanted to hear, theres so much stuff about 330ci brakes, but you loose the handbrake, its nice to hear tha above as the cross brace is already on order. I was about to get bushes but didn't know what to go for.

Regarding the 850 callipers, how do they mount, do you get brackets made up?

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Craig- use Super Flex much better
product than the Powerflex stuff.

The guys at Superflex understand
hardness and sprod ratings much
better.

Get the front rear wishbone adjustable
ones with S/S insert, and the rear
ones, plus the RTAB's or if you want
to change rear camber and toe
K-mac do a bolt in eccentric bolt,
or you can use the E39 M5 eccentric
bolts but will have to have the
bolt tabs welded on to the rear
sub frame.

www.superflex.co.uk

The 850 Brembo Calipers come in
2 versions, lug, which I beleive was
also fitted to some e32 740/750 as
an optional upgrade, and the radial mount.

Try and get the Radial ones, and the
you can either have some alloy mounting
brackets made, BG Developments or
Hi Spec will make them, or its quite
easy to buy some 6063 alloy and make
your own.

Some of the lug ones bolt straight on but
not all.

330 brakes are just able to run larger discs
and they will cost almost as much S/H
as the Brembo set up.

On the LSD, the E36 3.0 M3 in the States
ran a 3.91 LSD which will bolt straight
in. It was because it was non S50 engine
and they wanted to keep acceleration
up to around 5.8 for 0-60.

There is also a 27mm e36 m3 front ARB
which with the Superflex ARB bushes would
alos improve turn in, I would leave the rear
as standard and just do the bushes.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[mattCSLnut]

Hi,

Keep your eyes peeled for a set of
850 4 POT Alloy Brembo's, usually around
200 ish, which will
run a E46 M3 front disc.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


Hey Gorilla.
U seem like the well of knowledge. :thumbs:
Is there anything from BREMBO for the CSLs O.E. front discs that just bolts on ??? :whistle:

[DuncanR]

Is there anything from BREMBO for the CSLs O.E. front discs that just bolts on ??? :whistle:

Hah hah ! whats up Matt ? did you get pi$$ed off at me Saturday having a dig at you only doing 4~5 laps before having to cool you brakes off mate !!:hahaha: Get some BBK on there and enjoy more of your track day!!
Nice meeting up with you, apologies for my appearance and all the Pigeon blood on my hands !! from :smt070

[mattCSLnut]

Hah hah ! whats up Matt ? did you get pi$$ed off at me Saturday having a dig at you only doing 4~5 laps before having to cool you brakes off mate !!:hahaha: Get some BBK on there and enjoy more of your track day!!
Nice meeting up with you, apologies for my appearance and all the Pigeon blood on my hands !! from :smt070


Yep, good to meet U too m8 and put a face to a name :thumbs: U bird killer ;) Shame U didn't bring your CSL with Ya :whistle: No m8, not pissed off at all as the brakes were fine. Before U arrived I had a 20 minute non stop, flat out, Instructor laps and they were working great, without fade, if anything the brakes needed a lap to warm up :hahaha: (the pads however, as great as they are, are at the end of their life now) They were 30% worn when I bought the car in October and have since done two TDs and over 2000 miles. I've ordered another set of the same, Performance Friction "Z" rated TD pads front & rear, all for a grand total of £140 delivered :thumbs: That's what I call a bargain.

http://www.part-box.com/performance-friction-pads-discs-bmw-m3-c-968_1058_1059.html

They are really superb, in conjunction with the braided houses and Racing Blue brake fluid. I'm just a little concern that as I build up speed & confidence in my CSL and as the ambient temperatures rise, I may need extra braking power come May/June time. I'm just thinking ahead and out loud about a simple solution that doesn't cost thousands £££ or require heavy modifications. I personally think the OE CSL discs can take the heat, however the OE callipers will start to complain, even with the PF pads, so a BREMBO four pot callipers, like the ones from the Porker 928 I think might do the job. :whistle: Over to Mr Gorilla

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

The standard M3 CSL Disc are more than up
to the job, and at just 28mm thick you save
some weight as opposed PF, AP or Brembo at
32/35/36mm thick, about a kg a disc.

What you require is some 'Radial' Mount Calipers
either 4 pot or 6 pot that take a 28mm x 345/350
disc.

Porsche Brembos, 996,997 rears, BMW 850,
or something like a pair of Compbrake 6 pots
or Hi Spec 4-6 pots.

http://www.compbrake.co.uk/CALIPERS/CALIPERS_COMPB6_PRORACE6.html

http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/calipers/M6%20Rad%20360.htm



Brackets would be around 80-100 each so for
under a 7/800 you can have a 4 or 6 pot set up
running your standard CSL Discs.

I am surprised that nobody ever did just a
Radial caliper kit for the E46 M3/CSL as
by spacing a radial caliper off the mounting
brackets you could have coverd
both disc sizes on both models etc
and retained standard front discs.

As 70/75 % braking effeciency is front
bias, then std rears with s/s lines good
pads and a rear balance valve mounted
in the cockpit for wet days etc, would
give all the brakes you would ever need
for a Trackday car.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[mattCSLnut]

Hi,

The standard M3 CSL Disc are more than up
to the job, and at just 28mm thick you save
some weight as opposed PF, AP or Brembo at
32/35/36mm thick, about a kg a disc.

What you require is some 'Radial' Mount Calipers
either 4 pot or 6 pot that take a 28mm x 345/350
disc.

Porsche Brembos, 996,997 rears, BMW 850,
or something like a pair of Compbrake 6 pots
or Hi Spec 4-6 pots.

http://www.compbrake.co.uk/CALIPERS/CALIPERS_COMPB6_PRORACE6.html

http://www.hispecbrake.co.uk/calipers/M6%20Rad%20360.htm



Brackets would be around 80-100 each so for
under a 7/800 you can have a 4 or 6 pot set up
running your standard CSL Discs.

I am surprised that nobody ever did just a
Radial caliper kit for the E46 M3/CSL as
by spacing a radial caliper off the mounting
brackets you could have coverd
both disc sizes on both models etc
and retained standard front discs.

As 70/75 % braking effeciency is front
bias, then std rears with s/s lines good
pads and a rear balance valve mounted
in the cockpit for wet days etc, would
give all the brakes you would ever need
for a Trackday car.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Top man... THANX for your insight. This is something I'm seriously considering as I've had GREAT! experience with BREMBO callipers in the past.
I think the reason no one did the Radial calliper kit for the E46 M3 /CSL is there's probably not enough money to be made out of it over , lets say AP Racing or Alcon BIG brake kits.

Any tips on who would be the best supplier of the before mentioned brackets ?

[phat///M3]

Congrats on the new car Craig, I love e36s and this one looks like a great example.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- www.BGdevelopments.co.uk
can make up Brake Caliper Brackets, or
Try www.Movit.de as they use to offer
Brackets for fitting Brembos to many
applications.

www.300mm.de also offer differing
BMW Brake combination applications.

Compbrake make Caliper Brackets, as
will your local CNC Shop with a sketch.

Its quite easy to work out once you
have the Calipers, and final disc size.

Surprised that somebody does not manufacture
a Standard caliper bracket with the holes drilled
for the hub centres, but left blank for the
caliper radial centres.

This would be for the std 28mm thick discs.

You then have brackets drilled and tapped
to suit your Caliper spacing etc.

Would allow several 4/6 pot 28/32mm radial mount
calipers to be fitted, while allowing them
to be quickly removed and removed to stock
for selling the car.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[alexk]

The car is very nice Craig :beer:

[mattCSLnut]

Hi,

MattCSLnut- www.BGdevelopments.co.uk
can make up Brake Caliper Brackets, or
Try www.Movit.de as they use to offer
Brackets for fitting Brembos to many
applications.

www.300mm.de also offer differing
BMW Brake combination applications.

Compbrake make Caliper Brackets, as
will your local CNC Shop with a sketch.

Its quite easy to work out once you
have the Calipers, and final disc size.

Surprised that somebody does not manufacture
a Standard caliper bracket with the holes drilled
for the hub centres, but left blank for the
caliper radial centres.

This would be for the std 28mm thick discs.

You then have brackets drilled and tapped
to suit your Caliper spacing etc.

Would allow several 4/6 pot 28/32mm radial mount
calipers to be fitted, while allowing them
to be quickly removed and removed to stock
for selling the car.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


Craig, SORRY for hijacking your post m8 but I have a further question for Mr Gorilla ( I'll start a fresh thread after this )

I have these "BREMBO" 4 pot callipers to fit onto my CSL. They are Porsche 928 S4, 968 CS, 911 (993 & 996 non Turbo) + Boxter 3.2 fronts. These are 25% bigger in overall size then the previously mentioned rear "BREMBO" callipers. The disc width spacing is 35 mm (as per pic 2) between the pad retaining clips... is that too much or is that OK ? Do U know if (with an appropriate custom brackets) these will fit over the CSL standard front discs ? THANX in advance :beer:

[Craig]

If the width is too much you can just split the calliper and machine it down. e46 discs are 28mm wide I think, or is it 30mm so it shouldn't be too bad but if it is, things can be altered. ;)

[phat///M3]

If the width is too much you can just split the calliper and machine it down. e46 discs are 28mm wide I think, or is it 30mm so it shouldn't be too bad but if it is, things can be altered. ;)

Either that or there are small plugs made by Brembo that fit inside the pistons that compensate for a thinner disc.

[mattCSLnut]

If the width is too much you can just split the calliper and machine it down. e46 discs are 28mm wide I think, or is it 30mm so it shouldn't be too bad but if it is, things can be altered. ;)


Hi m8.
Apparently, splitting these calipers into the two halves that they are made of, renders them useless :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

Either that or there are small plugs made by Brembo that fit inside the pistons that compensate for a thinner disc.


That sounds interesting :whistle: Any web linx ?

[phat///M3]

That sounds interesting :whistle: Any web linx ?

Nope sorry, I just know they make them as they come with their 4 piston rear caliper kit as that uses the orignal BMW disc (which I believe is 28mm) and the same caliper is used on their rear 345mm discs kit without the little spacers.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

MattCSLNut- if your going to use those
Brembo Calipers, on your CSL, then you will need
to locate some 'thicker' pads which is
sometimes an option, or if the tolerances
allow, some 'Pad Spacers'.

Thin metal plates that fit between the
caliper pistons and the back of the
Brake pad, usually the same shape
so they work same as the pad does on
the lugs or pins.

If they are for a 30mm disc then you can
run them on a 28mm disc as the caliper pistons will
not 1mm per side critical when fully extended.

If there for a 32mm disc then check the
piston length.

A lot of Brembos are Cast, so you are
not able to split them.

What sizes are the pistons in those calipers ?

And do they mount as a Leading or Trailing
Caliper, as you require the smaller piston
before the larger, when mounted as the CSL runs trailing
calipers.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Craig]

Wonder why you can't split them, I did notice the bolts were very small compared to the likes of the 840ci callipers which can be split. Also learn something new every day, didn't know Brembo made piston plugs for spacing issues.

[cslgirl]

Very nice :thumbs:

Useless information of the day - (I think) cars ending in a DL were registered here on the isle of wight (before 2001)!

[mattCSLnut]

THANX for the ever useful info Gorilla :thumbs: ... I'll measure the pistons and let U know :beer: BTW, I've started a fresh thread about this so for the benefit of others, maybe we should continue with this topic, on there. :thumbs: Link below

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3563





Hi,
MattCSLNut- if your going to use those
Brembo Calipers, on your CSL, then you will need
to locate some 'thicker' pads which is
sometimes an option, or if the tolerances
allow, some 'Pad Spacers'.

Thin metal plates that fit between the
caliper pistons and the back of the
Brake pad, usually the same shape
so they work same as the pad does on
the lugs or pins.

If they are for a 30mm disc then you can
run them on a 28mm disc as the caliper pistons will
not 1mm per side critical when fully extended.

If there for a 32mm disc then check the
piston length.

A lot of Brembos are Cast, so you are
not able to split them.



What sizes are the pistons in those calipers ?

And do they mount as a Leading or Trailing
Caliper, as you require the smaller piston
before the larger, when mounted as the CSL runs trailing
calipers.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Rags]

Yep, good to meet U too m8 and put a face to a name :thumbs: U bird killer ;) Shame U didn't bring your CSL with Ya :whistle: No m8, not pissed off at all as the brakes were fine. Before U arrived I had a 20 minute non stop, flat out, Instructor laps and they were working great, without fade, if anything the brakes needed a lap to warm up :hahaha: (the pads however, as great as they are, are at the end of their life now) They were 30% worn when I bought the car in October and have since done two TDs and over 2000 miles. I've ordered another set of the same, Performance Friction "Z" rated TD pads front & rear, all for a grand total of £140 delivered :thumbs: That's what I call a bargain.

http://www.part-box.com/performance-friction-pads-discs-bmw-m3-c-968_1058_1059.html

They are really superb, in conjunction with the braided houses and Racing Blue brake fluid. I'm just a little concern that as I build up speed & confidence in my CSL and as the ambient temperatures rise, I may need extra braking power come May/June time. I'm just thinking ahead and out loud about a simple solution that doesn't cost thousands £££ or require heavy modifications. I personally think the OE CSL discs can take the heat, however the OE callipers will start to complain, even with the PF pads, so a BREMBO four pot callipers, like the ones from the Porker 928 I think might do the job. :whistle: Over to Mr Gorilla

That was a some blood, sweat and tears fitting those genuine discs, PF pads, Superblue and braided hoses:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[Forelli]

WOW, thank you gorilla for the information. I have recently developed interest in brakes (no I didn't smash the car somewhere ;) ) and the info you posted is very interesting. So much to learn!