Winter and cups = [Archive]

Trawler

28-12-2009, 08:22 PM

cslgirl

28-12-2009, 08:30 PM

Has anyone considered the possibility that their car insurance is invalid when driving on cups in the winter? The hand book recommends the tyres should not be used when the ambient temp is lower than 7 deg C. That is, the insurance company could claim your car is not fit for the road if you are involved in an accident. Speak to a someone from southern germany who has been involved in an accident in the winter when driving on summer tyres if you need convincing. It is normal for garages there to store owners winter wheels/tyres for changing in the winter.

Interesting.....never thought of it before. Surely though, if they are road legal, then you are insured? Also, if its only "recommended" they should not be used, would an insurance company be able to use it as a get out clause? Admittedly insurance companies will try their best to get out of a pay out.

Nords

28-12-2009, 08:30 PM

It is law in Germany to have winter tyres in winter, the UK isn't as clued up! I doubt an assessor would know what they are looking at, however you make a valid point. There is no point giving them chances to wiggle out of a claim...

shimmy

29-12-2009, 01:04 AM

road legal tyres and OEM so i doubt any issue at all tbh

SpineOnABap

29-12-2009, 07:44 AM

Has anyone considered the possibility that their car insurance is invalid when driving on cups in the winter? The hand book recommends the tyres should not be used when the ambient temp is lower than 7 deg C. That is, the insurance company could claim your car is not fit for the road if you are involved in an accident. Speak to a someone from southern germany who has been involved in an accident in the winter when driving on summer tyres if you need convincing. It is normal for garages there to store owners winter wheels/tyres for changing in the winter.

No it doesn't. It says that they don't work as well below 7c, which to be fair is exactly the same as every other 'summer tyre' out there (PS2, Conti 2 etc...etc)

There's no insurance issues at all :thumbs:

alexk

29-12-2009, 08:11 AM

In Germany and Austria, you need to have winter tires during the winter (in case there is an accident, there will be coverage in case you don't have winter tires).
In Switzerland, you can have summer tires unless there is snow.
So if there is an accident in clear day(not snow on the road) and you have summer tires, all is good.
If the same happens with snow, you have problem.

I am also aware about Greece where no one checks tires ;)
I guess it's similar case in UK.

Trawler

29-12-2009, 08:52 AM

No it doesn't. It says that they don't work as well below 7c, which to be fair is exactly the same as every other 'summer tyre' out there (PS2, Conti 2 etc...etc)

There's no insurance issues at all :thumbs:

The handbook states: "Fit winter tyres if the outside temperatures are lower than 7 deg C". If normal tyres are fitted one could argue that you are using normal (summer) tyres like everyone else in this country, but would not like to debate cups in court of law. Any lawyers on this forum?

SpineOnABap

29-12-2009, 09:09 AM

The handbook states: "Fit winter tyres if the outside temperatures are lower than 7 deg C". If normal tyres are fitted one could argue that you are using normal (summer) tyres like everyone else in this country, but would not like to debate cups in court of law. Any lawyers on this forum?

Apologies - so it does. Oh well we're all screwed then :hahaha:

Dan

29-12-2009, 10:48 AM

Cups will not affect insurance in this country, there is no UK law that states we have to use XYZ tyre during particular months, so long as they are road legal for the UK, I.e. have adequate tread and are not bald then if you did have an accident on them you'd be fine and insurance would be valid.

bromers

29-12-2009, 09:44 PM

mattCSLnut

30-12-2009, 03:28 AM

Can common sense PLEEEZZZ prevail :banghead:. All summer tyres stop working below 5 dec C so regardless of being legal or not, why take a chance with a CSL on Cup, in winter ? :smt009 ... and please don't ask what common sense is :whistle:

Dan

30-12-2009, 08:49 AM

I had my car delivered by a BMW dealer a few years ago - it was below 5 degrees on the yday they delivered it and they had to deliver/drive the car with the spare tyres/wheels on (less than 3mm of tread!!) - they said they weren't insured to drive the car with Cups on under 5 degrees.

Not sure whether that would apply to an individual but I never had any more problems with cold Cups then any other cold 'summer' tyre.

Rick

Sounds like total BS to me mate, all dealers/traders and garages etc have either a motor trade policy with road risks cover or a proper fleet policy, in 10 years of writing these insurance policies day in day out I have NEVER come accross or been informed of any endorsement that restrict what tyres you use!

jim76

31-12-2009, 12:50 AM

Sounds like total BS to me mate, all dealers/traders and garages etc have either a motor trade policy with road risks cover or a proper fleet policy, in 10 years of writing these insurance policies day in day out I have NEVER come accross or been informed of any endorsement that restrict what tyres you use!

They may have told the customer that, because they frighten the sh1t out of the drivers at the dealerships about these tyres!

A local BMW dealership to me were delivering a long awaited CSL to a customer (new, may I add, a few years ago!). Some young valeter was being followed to the customer's house, so thought he'd show off at a set of lights only a few hundred yards from the garage. Whatever he did, he nailed it hard, probably with the traction off, and took the side off the CSL against a Transit van!! Apparently they couldn't sack him because he was never made aware about the tyres in the way a new owner was.

I also heard there was a disclaimer to sign upon removing your CSL from the dealership with Cups fitted, to state you understood that the tyres were poor when cold and in damp conditions?? Not sure if that is true, anyone?

glendog74

31-12-2009, 02:54 AM

At the end of the day, we all know where Cups excel and when to use them: in the dry on road or track - Simples!

SpineOnABap

31-12-2009, 09:06 AM

I also heard there was a disclaimer to sign upon removing your CSL from the dealership with Cups fitted, to state you understood that the tyres were poor when cold and in damp conditions?? Not sure if that is true, anyone?

There certainly was a form like that. From memory (it was June 2003!) I think I had to sign the form at order confirmation time, when we went in to spec the car for build. Actually I still have the PDF files the dealer emailed over (order specification sheet, disclaimer etc).

jim76

31-12-2009, 09:50 AM

At the end of the day, we all know where Cups excel and when to use them: in the dry on road or track - Simples!

Exactly!! Why would you take any car out in the poor weather on Cups?? For the sake of a few hundred pounds on winter tyres, which lets be honest, don't need to be the greatest, I would not want to risk wrapping my pride and joy!!

shimmy

31-12-2009, 10:55 AM

Exactly!! Why would you take any car out in the poor weather on Cups?? For the sake of a few hundred pounds on winter tyres, which lets be honest, !!

Gayer......

alexk

31-12-2009, 11:10 AM

Gayer......

+1

BTW, these are my winter tires :thumbs:

TANKSLAPPER

31-12-2009, 11:14 AM

Alex, what make and size are your winter tyres ?

T$

alexk

31-12-2009, 11:16 AM

Alex, what make and size are your winter tyres ?

T$

Vredestein Wintrac Extreme
235/35/19 W
265/30/19 W
standard CSL dimensions.
They are very very good. I have them since last winter and they are excellent in rain and snow. Also, they weren't expensive (60% of the price of cups).

PS :
forgot to mention that I had the same brand and type in
Ford mondeo ST220 (sold)
Mini cooper S (sold)
325i E90 (we have it, my wife drives it)
Full marks for these tires :)

Dan

31-12-2009, 12:52 PM

They may have told the customer that, because they frighten the sh1t out of the drivers at the dealerships about these tyres!

I also heard there was a disclaimer to sign upon removing your CSL from the dealership with Cups fitted, to state you understood that the tyres were poor when cold and in damp conditions?? Not sure if that is true, anyone?

The dealers do tell the customers that but as I say it's a total load of bollocks, they really piss me off and sometimes I refuse to deal with them as the sales guys are jumped up little fucks who tell their client anything to get a sale, then we do the insurance and the customer complains because of something they've been told by a salesman! :whistle: :banghead: :banghead:

I've rang them up before and told them if they keep advising on insurance when they arn't regulated they're gonna have a problem! :bigcry: :bigcry: (can you tell this gets my goat :bigcry:)

About the disclaimer as far as I've been aware thats correct :)

Alex, love the BBS wheels mate, what are they, CH's?

jim76

31-12-2009, 01:41 PM

+1

BTW, these are my winter tires :thumbs:

And I'm gay!! These are chunkier than the tyres on my Range Rover Sport!!! :hahaha:

What kind are they???

SpineOnABap

31-12-2009, 01:50 PM

Here you go (if you're interested lol) ... I've uploaded a copy of the PDF tyre declaration that I (and all other purchasers) had to sign at order time back in '03.

http://homepages.nildram.co.uk/~ephome1/Misc/M3CSLTDEC.PDF

jim76

31-12-2009, 02:07 PM

Very interesting, as I've always heard about this disclaimer/declaration but never actually knew if it was true or not.

I must admit, if I had a bump in the snow or ice and was waiting on an insurance assesor coming out, I would be bricking it with Cups on my car! It's all very well for folk to say "yeah they are UK road legal tyres so no worries!" but we all know what insurance companies are like these days for trying to wriggle out of things!

Can you imagine, just for example, you're going to the Motor Show in January, or anywhere else for that matter, it's cold and frosty, and you accidentaly run into the back of a lovely Ferrari 430, which you also nudge into the nice Bentley Continental GT in front of that. I'm sure an insurance company would be interested in trying to find a way out of a claim like that!!

Wouldn't BMW have been asking customers to sign that disclaimer on legal grounds??

shimmy

31-12-2009, 02:28 PM

whilst an initially interesting question this now getting silly;

Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tyres, although developed very much with track day and competition use in mind, are road legal. They therefore comply with GB law in the ‘Road Vehicles (Construction and Use) Regulations, 1986’ – as amended.

A requirement of these regulations is that car tyres must conform to ‘United Nations ECE Regulation 30’. To demonstrate this each tyre carries an ‘E2’ mark on one or both sidewalls and an adjacent type
approval number.

they are road legal, full stop.

All tyres perform differently in different situations but are all within certain perameters defined by MOT tyre rules. You dont get insurance problems by having rubbish slippy Falkons instead of Ps2s :thumbs:

they are the correct size. load rating and speed rating

TANKSLAPPER

31-12-2009, 02:40 PM

NOW IT IS GOING TO GET SILLY

Shimmy, bought too many cups tyres LOL

Happy New Year to you

T$

SpineOnABap

31-12-2009, 04:01 PM

Gotta agree with Shimmy.

shimmy

31-12-2009, 04:39 PM

NOW IT IS GOING TO GET SILLY

Shimmy, bought too many cups tyres LOL

Happy New Year to you

T$

i can see my shares tumblng :bigcry:

derek

31-12-2009, 06:08 PM

i can see my shares tumblng :bigcry:

nows the time to buy cups and sell them to Rob in the summer when they are on back order, just before his monthly ring trips :hahaha:

alexk

31-12-2009, 07:15 PM

Alex, love the BBS wheels mate, what are they, CH's?

Yes mate, BBS CH (plain silver :) )

shimmy

31-12-2009, 07:35 PM

Gotta agree with Shimmy.

most people come round to thinking like that eventually:thumbs:

(or i punch them!)

Mark CSL

01-01-2010, 12:10 PM

most people come round to thinking like that eventually:thumbs:

(or i punch them!)

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

SpineOnABap

06-01-2010, 09:54 PM

Vredestein Wintrac Extreme
235/35/19 W
265/30/19 W
standard CSL dimensions.
They are very very good. I have them since last winter and they are excellent in rain and snow. Also, they weren't expensive (60% of the price of cups).

SOD IT, I'm trying to get some! I'm not fussed about normal wet or cold conditions, but I'm sick to death of being car-less if there's a bit of snow or ice, and this pile of cak won't move 1mm forward or backward when everyone else in 'normal' cars just drives out normally. I'm trying to source some of these tyres so I hope they work!

shimmy

06-01-2010, 10:26 PM

SOD IT, I'm trying to get some! I'm not fussed about normal wet or cold conditions, but I'm sick to death of being car-less if there's a bit of snow or ice, and this pile of cak won't move 1mm forward or backward when everyone else in 'normal' cars just drives out normally. I'm trying to source some of these tyres so I hope they work!

homosexual...................................

SpineOnABap

07-01-2010, 01:40 PM

I suppose it's ok for people who've got other cars, but if you (like I) are just stuck with this stupid pile of steaming grey crap stuck in the road because there's a bit of compacted snow and a slight incline then it's a right PITA. I can only get around by taxi.
Absolutely fed up with it :banghead: