Track Slag part II

[shane@mbtech]

After my last attempt.... Bought a normal M3, swapped everything from csl then could not part with csl so swapped everything back then sold the standard m3 on....... I have been pondering somewhat.

I have now bought another normal 52 reg M3, I am swapping everything over to it, suspension, exhaust, brakes etc etc.

I was going to cage and fit bucket seats to the csl, but I cant bring myself to do it, sooo... Im putting the csl back to standard but this time I'm keeping it purely as a road/ring car. Now with the white wrap its like a new car....

I'm doing the same as my previous plan to the standard M3 with carbon roof in the future. Fully stripped out, 2 recaro race seats, caged, alcon brakes, kw clubsport suspension, titanium exhaust with race cats, few other suspension tweeks. Full race geo set-up. Pro race 1.2 wheels with dunlop direzza semi slicks. So keep an eye out for my progress on this topic. Ill post pics and this time its definitely 100% go go go.

Right heres a few pics of how it is now.

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Finished in lovely marmite yellow.

Started to strip the slag, and beneath her clothes she is a thing of beauty.:smt055

Stripped out front seats, rear seats, rear parcel shelf with heavy sunblind, rear quarter inner (door) panels, harmon kardonn shite, tv tuner, sat nav, cd changer, all boot panels etc. Drove it home, massive improvement. Does not feel as lardy anymore.

Brakes, suspension and exhaust going on this weekend. Then its getting carbon roof and full weld in cage.:thumbs: More pics to follow over weekend.


Dont like the spoiler, but if it works it will be staying on.

[shane@mbtech]

Some updates, Interior all stripped out, one recaro in, going for roof and full weld in cage on saturday. Alcons on, kw's on, exhaust on.

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[shane@mbtech]

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[AlexGTT]

I've noticed your a decisive guy............once your mind is made up, that's it..........:whistle::wink:

[azrael]

Surely the CSl is a track car and the standard M3 a road car you've got it all wrong :-D

[shane@mbtech]

Surely the CSl is a track car and the standard M3 a road car you've got it all wrong :-D

But the M3 will not be standard;) It will be more track focused so to speak, than the standard csl.

Plus if I damage it, its only a 11k car as opposed to a 25k car.

[shane@mbtech]

I've noticed your a decisive guy............once your mind is made up, that's it..........:whistle::wink:

Impulsive and very decisive at making decisions based on my impulses. Never lose out financially though, the last M3 i bought to strip and track and then decided to sell I made £2000 on.

When it comes to cars and me, nothing is set in stone, I may sell the csl and the M3. Who knows, god maybe, cos I sure as fucking hell dont.:hahaha:

I was contemplating a mk5 Golf gti to strip and track until only last night, in fact nearly bought one friday, but it sold an hour before I was due to view it, maybe it was fate, I then changed my mind and bought the M3 this morning.

So track slag part II is born.

[NZ_M3]

Not sure what the price difference is over in the UK ... but why not just buy another CSL (cheapest you can find on the market) and turn that into a track beast? Dilemma solved :beer: (might even work out cheaper once you've sold all the 'special' csl interior bits and bobs and stuff you won't need for turning it into a track car)

[shane@mbtech]

Not sure what the price difference is over in the UK ... but why not just buy another CSL (cheapest you can find on the market) and turn that into a track beast? Dilemma solved :beer: (might even work out cheaper once you've sold all the 'special' csl interior bits and bobs and stuff you won't need for turning it into a track car)


decent csl £24-£26k I bought a decent M3 for £12k

Big difference in price.

[northernjim]

good stuff lawsy, I will be watching closely, as I'd like to go down this route rather than ruin a csl:bigcry: plus I could bin it and not cry too much :hahaha::bigcry:

[shane@mbtech]

good stuff lawsy, I will be watching closely, as I'd like to go down this route rather than ruin a csl:bigcry: plus I could bin it and not cry too much :hahaha::bigcry:

Exactly why I have done it;)

[_Nathan_]

Don't be so gay, it is only a car and every time you go one track in the other one you'll be longing for that induction noise!

[mattCSLnut]

Don't be so gay, it is only a car and every time you go one track in the other one you'll be longing for that induction noise!

LOL!!! :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: Speaking of CSL induction noise, since the recent Brand Hatch track day, my CSL has developed an even deeper, throatier induction noise. Sounds like "Chewbacca" clearing his throat :thumbs:

[shimmy]

sort of like oooooaaaaaarrghhhhhhhhhhh:smokin:

[glendog74]

Don't be so gay, it is only a car and every time you go one track in the other one you'll be longing for that induction noise!

I gotta agree with that Shane.

My car will eventually be a track only slag - it's over half way there already. It's not like you don't have other normal cars you can use instead!

[mattCSLnut]

sort of like oooooaaaaaarrghhhhhhhhhhh:smokin:

No, more like GRRRRRRRRRRRY :hahaha:

[shane@mbtech]

I gotta agree with that Shane.

My car will eventually be a track only slag - it's over half way there already. It's not like you don't have other normal cars you can use instead!


I half agree with you guys, but I like tinkering.

I wont lose out financially doing what I'm doing so its a free experiment. And I love working on the m3/csl. Suspension swap complete can be done in no time at all now.

We will see what she is like on track when complete, meet up on track and see if it can keep up:thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

Pics on page 1 of unsuspecting slag ready to foooked.

[DuncanR]

Lawsy... am I missing something here, why not buy Steves shell, Craigs parts and others and hey presto ! CSL track car !

[shane@mbtech]

Lawsy... am I missing something here, why not buy Steves shell, Craigs parts and others and hey presto ! CSL track car !


I have my mind set now on converting a normal m3 to track/race-ish spec, That would be an option for someone to make a few £ notes.

[DuncanR]

How about a group project then with Steves shell, Craig and others parts ? All chip in, and then rent it back to ourselves whenever someone needs it ! All on a commercial basis of course ! We could all be proud owners of 1 and 1/50th CSL's :hahaha:

[daniel]

Did you buy that from Trevor Jones in Berks?

[shimmy]

Lawsy

how about a twin one side back box, rear diffuser and big front splitter!!!

[_Nathan_]

Flat floor it ;)

[Hazy]

Lawsy, ya doing the right thing mate, I started to buy stuff to convert my CSL to a track car, but the car was just too good to do it to (as you know, you brought the unused brakes!!)

I dinked my M3 at Oulton last month, how gutted would I have been if it had been the CSL?? Or worse..the Strad!!!:bigcry:

[shane@mbtech]

Duncan.... My plan is to build an m3 which I then make faster than my CSL, that is my target.

Hazy..... Adam, agree 100%, if I ding this ill just say "shit, oh well", and park it up ready for next track day. If I dinged the csl id be gutted.

[_Nathan_]

If you insure them I really don't see the difference.

I fell off at Donny and the gravel ripped off the splitter, the lower half of the front bumper and the rear bumper, the cost to fix is identical for M3 or CSL?

I was annoyed but that wouldn't have changed regardless of the car.

[shane@mbtech]

If you insure them I really don't see the difference.

I fell off at Donny and the gravel ripped off the splitter, the lower half of the front bumper and the rear bumper, the cost to fix is identical for M3 or CSL?

I was annoyed but that wouldn't have changed regardless of the car.


Yes and when you get your bumper peppered in stone chips on the csl, it will get painted, then some more stone chips, then painted again, then more then painted again, the m3 will be left with the battle scars, no cost to me.

If you get a big ding in door, you repair it, to high standard, and pay the excess, ill just push out dent in the m3 and stick a sticker over it,

CSL bumper is carbon fibre and carbon fibre splitters, a lot more to cost to repair or change.

Most track day insurance excess is very high, If you scraped your csl splitters off on a curb, and rip the bumper= big claim, if i scrape my bumper Ill leave it.

One mans logic is another mans idea of craziness.

[_Nathan_]

You are assuming that for some reason a CSL isn't allowed to get stone chips in the same way an M3 is?

Not running standard bumper, that was sold :)

All of your examples are just a case of personal standards, an M3 door is the same as a CSL door, if you choose to bodge a repair and leave it looking pikey then it is the same on either car.

In both cases insurance is only there for a big one, no point claiming for cosmetic stuff.

Regardless of the base car you end up with something similar in cost to repair IMO, CSL just has a better engine, lighter roof, lighter boot lid, lighter loom, less horrible tar to worry about, faster steering rack, better ABS calibration etc etc All of which can be copied but then the difference in cost once you've sold the CSL bits becomes negligible.

Not having a go at you personally I just sometimes don't get the way the CSL is seen as something so special and not to be touched on here yet a normal M3 isn't, they are both just cars!

[Hazy]

You are assuming that for some reason a CSL isn't allowed to get stone chips in the same way an M3 is?

Not running standard bumper, that was sold :)

All of your examples are just a case of personal standards, an M3 door is the same as a CSL door, if you choose to bodge a repair and leave it looking pikey then it is the same on either car.

In both cases insurance is only there for a big one, no point claiming for cosmetic stuff.

Regardless of the base car you end up with something similar in cost to repair IMO, CSL just has a better engine, lighter roof, lighter boot lid, lighter loom, less horrible tar to worry about, faster steering rack, better ABS calibration etc etc All of which can be copied but then the difference in cost once you've sold the CSL bits becomes negligible.

Not having a go at you personally I just sometimes don't get the way the CSL is seen as something so special and not to be touched on here yet a normal M3 isn't, they are both just cars!

Think your missing the point here mate. Lawsy is building a track car, he WAS converting a nice road car and keeping the road stuff. To retain the value of his CSL in the event of the worse happening would mean a PROPER repair with new parts at a top notch body shop. To repair the same damage on a track car , use second hand parts, cable ties where expensive plastic brackets have snapped, and a cheap spray job so it looks reasonable. For example....how much to repair this track dink:whistle:, ballpark??

[_Nathan_]

That must be were we are getting our wires crossed - I'm talking about building a track car from a CSL, not retaining the comfortable stuff or any pretence of resale value, therefore the standard of repair would be identical for both CSL and M3 base car. As an example I got a rear bumper for my CSL for £80 + paint, though it looked quite good with the rear bumper missing, like mad max, pic attached :D

Ball park - identical for CSL or M3 if you want them both done to the same standard :P

If you decide to keep metal doors I've got some silver grey ones with the door bars and excess metal cut out - fix your car up a treat, and already the right colour ;)

[Hazy]

That must be were we are getting our wires crossed - I'm talking about building a track car from a CSL, not retaining the comfortable stuff or any pretence of resale value, therefore the standard of repair would be identical for both CSL and M3 base car. As an example I got a rear bumper for my CSL for £80 + paint, though it looked quite good with the rear bumper missing, like mad max, pic attached :D

Ball park - identical for CSL or M3 if you want them both done to the same standard :P

If you decide to keep metal doors I've got some silver grey ones with the door bars and excess metal cut out - fix your car up a treat, and already the right colour ;)

Now you tell me!!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead: Car is all repaired and good to go :thumbs: I am deffo interested in those fibreglass doors if you could give me the details pls mate?

[DuncanR]

Got you now Lawsy ..sorry mate... the main thrust is a fast track car ... not nessecesssarillly a CSL one ....doh ! mmm Depending on what future decisions I make , i too may be looking for a cheaper track slag ... ponders ...;)

Love the look without a rear bumper !!

[shane@mbtech]

You are assuming that for some reason a CSL isn't allowed to get stone chips in the same way an M3 is?

Not running standard bumper, that was sold :)

All of your examples are just a case of personal standards, an M3 door is the same as a CSL door, if you choose to bodge a repair and leave it looking pikey then it is the same on either car.

In both cases insurance is only there for a big one, no point claiming for cosmetic stuff.

Regardless of the base car you end up with something similar in cost to repair IMO, CSL just has a better engine, lighter roof, lighter boot lid, lighter loom, less horrible tar to worry about, faster steering rack, better ABS calibration etc etc All of which can be copied but then the difference in cost once you've sold the CSL bits becomes negligible.

Not having a go at you personally I just sometimes don't get the way the CSL is seen as something so special and not to be touched on here yet a normal M3 isn't, they are both just cars!


Adam gets my point exactly,

I have no intention of keeping the csl, and with nearly a 15k difference between the two cars it means a great difference, a tatty csl with numerous repairs and non csl front bumper will be worth a lot less than clean one with csl bumper.

I dont see any difference for total strip out, caged track/race use csl vs m3, except about 15k price difference. That is my reasoning for stripping/tracking the m3, and having csl as road car, with view to sell it in the future.

The m3 I intend to keep. But if I sell it I wont lose out. It is purely financial decision.

[daniel]

for 2k you can always go for a carbon air intake with alpha-n remap and pretend it is a csl:thumbs:

[TANKSLAPPER]

what's 15k amongst friends.............

6 Ring trip
2 trackdays at spa
2 uk trackdays

wear & tear+ petrol + brakes + tyres and circuit hire.

I nearly forgot the BEER = 15K

one years track budget = fook all

I have had my CSL 6 years on track = £2,500 extra to track a CSL over an m3 and the csl will still have less depreciation than an M3

T$ advice get a better job

DO YOU LIKE MY MATHS? LOL

[_Nathan_]

Do you honestly think that Thorneys CSL cup race car based on a CSL is worth less because it hasn't got a CSL bumper on it? Same goes for the intersport CSL, mentally fast, for track cars no one cares what fancy form over function parts are on the car. For track work there are much better options, lighter, with brake cooling and better aero, and cheaper to repair.

Numerous CSLs have sold for sub 20k, assume we are comparing a £20k CSL with a £10k M3, if you want better examples of each call it £12k v £22k.

Sell CSL bumper for say £900 more than you can sell an M3 bumper for
Sell CSL boot lid for say £400 more than you can sell an M3 bootlid for
Sell CSL interior for say £3000 more than you can sell an M3 interior for
Sell CSL wheels for say £300 more than you can sell m3 wheels for
Sell CSL Steering wheel, wallet, exhaust parts in fact anything CSL related you have left for a few quid here and there, call it £500?

Fit Carbon Roof £1k
Fit Airbox and Map £2k
Fit faster steering rack £1k
Sort out ABS on standard car - ???

less hassle with stripping wiring loom as it is miles smaller, less hassle with removing sound proofing.

You end up with a better car IMO for only a few quid more, even if you up the M3 to CSL spread the difference one the cars are fully built is no where near as much.

As soon as you weld a full cage in you destroy resale as a road car anyway so all the points about having to keep it immaculate are irrelevant.

I weighed it up carefully and having owned my CSL since it was 3.5k miles old decided to stick with a car I knew and knew what had been changed when, what faults it had had etc etc, a few grand in the scheme of building and running one of these cars is nothing!

Not saying what you are doing is wrong but simply defending my position of suggesting that the repair prices on a track car are identical on M3 and CSL and being called crazy for it :beer:
Having said that the 05 plate M3 CS that UB on here bought was a bargain, very good plate to start from at around £10k as it already has the better ECU, steering rack, DSC, steering wheel etc.

I'm sure your car will be great, now get on and finish it :thumbs: :smt055

[mattCSnoL]

what's 15k amongst friends.............

6 Ring trip
2 trackdays at spa
2 uk trackdays

wear & tear+ petrol + brakes + tyres and circuit hire.

I nearly forgot the BEER = 15K

one years track budget = fook all

I have had my CSL 6 years on track = £2,500 extra to track a CSL over an m3 and the csl will still have less depreciation than an M3

T$ advice get a better job

DO YOU LIKE MY MATHS? LOL

TANKSLAPPER maths = Priceless

[shane@mbtech]

Do you honestly think that Thorneys CSL cup race car based on a CSL is worth less because it hasn't got a CSL bumper on it? Same goes for the intersport CSL, mentally fast, for track cars no one cares what fancy form over function parts are on the car. For track work there are much better options, lighter, with brake cooling and better aero, and cheaper to repair.

Numerous CSLs have sold for sub 20k, assume we are comparing a £20k CSL with a £10k M3, if you want better examples of each call it £12k v £22k.

Sell CSL bumper for say £900 more than you can sell an M3 bumper for
Sell CSL boot lid for say £400 more than you can sell an M3 bootlid for
Sell CSL interior for say £3000 more than you can sell an M3 interior for
Sell CSL wheels for say £300 more than you can sell m3 wheels for
Sell CSL Steering wheel, wallet, exhaust parts in fact anything CSL related you have left for a few quid here and there, call it £500?

Fit Carbon Roof £1k
Fit Airbox and Map £2k
Fit faster steering rack £1k
Sort out ABS on standard car - ???

less hassle with stripping wiring loom as it is miles smaller, less hassle with removing sound proofing.

You end up with a better car IMO for only a few quid more, even if you up the M3 to CSL spread the difference one the cars are fully built is no where near as much.

As soon as you weld a full cage in you destroy resale as a road car anyway so all the points about having to keep it immaculate are irrelevant.

I weighed it up carefully and having owned my CSL since it was 3.5k miles old decided to stick with a car I knew and knew what had been changed when, what faults it had had etc etc, a few grand in the scheme of building and running one of these cars is nothing!

Not saying what you are doing is wrong but simply defending my position of suggesting that the repair prices on a track car are identical on M3 and CSL and being called crazy for it :beer:
Having said that the 05 plate M3 CS that UB on here bought was a bargain, very good plate to start from at around £10k as it already has the better ECU, steering rack, DSC, steering wheel etc.

I'm sure your car will be great, now get on and finish it :thumbs: :smt055

I was not calling you crazy nathan, you took that wrong, I merely was stating everyones logic varies slightly. I get your point and appreciate your maths.

I have done my maths many times for "my" intended project, my end point for both cars is about 12-15k difference. csl vs m3.

For me the 12-15k in my sky rocket is swaying me, For the track use I intend, the m3 fits the bill perfectly. So im just having a break as i type, from fitting the csl cup alcons:thumbs:, suspension on tomorrow night along with the exhaust.


ps your statement in red is why im keeping the csl standard, as I plan a weld in cage for the M3

[Dan]

Not sure what the price difference is over in the UK ... but why not just buy another CSL (cheapest you can find on the market) and turn that into a track beast? Dilemma solved :beer: (might even work out cheaper once you've sold all the 'special' csl interior bits and bobs and stuff you won't need for turning it into a track car)

Cheapest CSL i've seen over here is 23k for a Cat D write off IIRC!! :banghead:

Flat floor it ;)

I've thought about this many times on previous cars recently, I know someone who is now doing it to a mates car so will see what quality, fit and prices and like and might go for it in the new year!! Knowing the guys other work it'll be stunning and perfect first time! :smokin::smokin:

[phat///M3]

Congrats, cant wait to see how it turns out.

[_Nathan_]

Dan - Several CSLs have been sold for under 20k, not cat Ds either.

I wouldn't flat floor a road car - you need to add diff and gearbox coolers to compensate for the lack of air and consider exit from egine bay too, and you couldn't run the ride height low enough to properly work the diffuser, all IMO obviously.

[Dan]

Dan - Several CSLs have been sold for under 20k, not cat Ds either.

I wouldn't flat floor a road car - you need to add diff and gearbox coolers to compensate for the lack of air and consider exit from egine bay too, and you couldn't run the ride height low enough to properly work the diffuser, all IMO obviously.

Yeah agree mate, it will come with complications, as I say a friend is having it done on his track car at the moment and the chap doing it has a complete carbon (floor and everything) Porsche and knows his stuff, he has degree's in aerodynamics/air flow (I don't know the posh name for it lol) so it should come out well :thumbs:

It's just a thought but see how it turns out, prob not for a road car though as you say :)

[shane@mbtech]

Updated pics of progress so far:thumbs:

[_Nathan_]

Good stuff - What are you doing with the cage? What points are you taking it to?

[DuncanR]

Watch out Lawsy ! ... in case it escaped you... Whilst you have been working away on your track slag, I have been making an assault on your Power Driver Champion crown !!:hahaha:

Hope its going well mate.

[shane@mbtech]

Good stuff - What are you doing with the cage? What points are you taking it to?

16 point weld in cage, Im finalising design on saturday, cant wait now, :smt055

[phat///M3]

Some updates, Interior all stripped out, one recaro in, going for roof and full weld in cage on saturday. Alcons on, kw's on, exhaust on.

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=1048



Looking good.

You should be able to remove the rubbery lining where the back seat used to be, as I think its not there in the CSL.

Also remove the armrest and center console (well its the arm rest that weighs the most).

Are you keeping the door airbags? Also, Im sure you know but you can put remove the doorhandle from the doorpanel and put it back on the door.

[shane@mbtech]

Looking good.

You should be able to remove the rubbery lining where the back seat used to be, as I think its not there in the CSL.

Also remove the armrest and center console (well its the arm rest that weighs the most).

Are you keeping the door airbags? Also, Im sure you know but you can put remove the doorhandle from the doorpanel and put it back on the door.


Rubber mat is out, rear carpet is now out, armrest will be coming out, airbags are off, im going carbon door skins/panels, so ill finalise handles when they are on:thumbs:

[phat///M3]

Rubber mat is out, rear carpet is now out, armrest will be coming out, airbags are off, im going carbon door skins/panels, so ill finalise handles when they are on:thumbs:



OOoh nice, when can we expect piccies?

[_Nathan_]

Where are you getting the carbon doors from and how much + what is the weight? PM me if you prefer.

[Hazy]

Rubber mat is out, rear carpet is now out, armrest will be coming out, airbags are off, im going carbon door skins/panels, so ill finalise handles when they are on:thumbs:


I'm also needing to know where ya getting the carbon from mate please!!

[shane@mbtech]

OOoh nice, when can we expect piccies?

Where are you getting the carbon doors from and how much + what is the weight? PM me if you prefer.

I'm also needing to know where ya getting the carbon from mate please!!


Not full carbon doors, just the interior panels for now, although I might see about cutting crash bars out the doors etc. Nice winter project for me to tackle. It will be finished end of january completely:thumbs:

[Thorney]

Workshop is getting a bit full at the moment ;)

Steve's shell is stripped awaiting cage for Rodger.

Shanes will be here on Sat for the full treatment.

As for the question of which to convert, I dont think there is a right answer. If its going to be a track slag only then the CSL makes slightly more sense in terms of the amount of work as less is needed, as Natah says, loom is smaller, CF roof already there, slightly higher power. The downside is the extra cost to repair if it goes wrong as some of the CSL parts are more than M3. If its going to (eventually) be a race car then the M3 makes more sense, most of what makes the CSL unique is changed anyway (even the roof) for a race car so the only real benefits are higher stock power which we replicate via CSL airboxes on M3's. DSC we turn off, ABS is the same and works differently with CSL CUp brakes (should you go that route), the CSL rack is worth having but only really makes an effect at Druids at BH and hairpin at Croft, everywhere else stock M3 rack is fine and cheap to replace.

Devil is in the details of course, the difference between a strack slag (love that term) and a full spec race car can (and usually is) massive.

Shane, strip out the sound deadening mate, we'll have to do it if you dont :)

[Thorney]

Nathan, we've done carbon doors for the E46 now, £750 each. Weight depends on window options as ours are framless.

[Dan]

Nathan, we've done carbon doors for the E46 now, £750 each. Weight depends on window options as ours are framless.

Knowing what other people have paid for carbon doors on other cars thats a very good price!

What is the quality like, are they good enough to leave unpainted if someone wanted to do so? (I wouldn't but just saying are they that good?)

Also what are the rough weight savings on a CSL? I know other carbon doors (Mk2 Focus) weigh around 6kg's for a bare door :smokin:

[Thorney]

Still making a few changes to spec to allow wider variety of window options but 6-7kg is about right. Finsih depends on what you want, if its going to be painted then we'll leave it unfinished but most will come out ready to plonk on the car and rolled out.:thumbs:

[_Nathan_]

£700 at GSM though ;)

How do your windows cope with bowing out? normal job with tensioning them?

Bare door is normally about 4kg Dan - massive savings over oem doors, I've paid a deposit on some GRP ones as they are only 4.5kg each and for the money saved I can live with an extra kg on the car, however the guy is a fucking nightmare and 7 weeks on still waiting for a shipping date, at least this week he sent me pictures of them which is a start...

If he doesn't pull his finger out soon I'll be back in the market.

John - Sure I've read that the ABS programming is different on the CSL to allow for stickier tyres? might be worth checking and if so then copy the coding from CSL to M3 if that is possible?

[azrael]

Most importantly are you keeping the centre arm rest in :-D