Do the CSLs suffer with hot brakes?

[XKaLiBaR]

I am curious at whether the csl's suffer from hotter brakes than the normal M3, with the bumpers having holes on either side to cool down the brakes.
If so, is ther a way to get ducts to the brakes without drilling holes in the bumper?

[Bealo]

This is something i am looking at as i have managed to turn my AP calipers silver from burning the black paint off.

Turner Motorsport do a ducting kit as do a few others :thumbs:

[TMAQ]

is ther a way to get ducts to the brakes without drilling holes in the bumper?

splitters count ;)?... there was a CSL at the ring in August (maybe someone has a pic of even a member here?). the CSL had cut rectangular mars bar sized holes in each of the spitters to help with brake cooling, maybe cheap plastic replica spitters.

my black AP's have turned silver too :hahaha:. iwill have a look at the Turner ducting kit:beer:

[phat///M3]

Thinking of getting a CSL front bumper Baris?

[XKaLiBaR]

Thinking of getting a CSL front bumper Baris?

Yes. So now im thining its a bad idea! Im going to have to fit some air ducts to the brakes. I wonder why bmw made the normal M3s better for the brakes than the CSL?

[englebert]

Brake ducts are an obvious sign of crap brakes. Brakes operate at hundreds of degrees, a bit of through-flow air really isn't going to save a soft set of OEM pads.

[Roland]

Yes. So now im thining its a bad idea! Im going to have to fit some air ducts to the brakes. I wonder why bmw made the normal M3s better for the brakes than the CSL?
They didn't!
They palced M5 discs, what meens they brake better (i know it's still not enough for our light weight).
It's has something to do with downforce on your front, too. No air is blowing in your wheelhousing what makes your car more stable.
If you think you need more air, you could go this way. Saw it somewhere on the www. (maybe over here)
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/m3csl1_2009/duct1ou9.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/m3csl1_2009/duct4tb8.jpg
http://i633.photobucket.com/albums/uu58/m3csl1_2009/duct3yq8.jpg

[shimmy]

bigger discs like PF or AP cool better and with decent pads and fluid there are no overheating issues at all on CSL brakes.:thumbs:

ive never had brakes fade since i have swapped from OEM discs to AP/PF so i am happy not to run extra air into my wheels and suffer all that extra drag :smokin:

[glendog74]

This is something i am looking at as i have managed to turn my AP calipers silver from burning the black paint off.



Just re-paint them mate - Simples!

(you could even do them a nice shade of pink or pastel blue...) :gayfight:

[Bealo]

So you think i have nothing to worry about with the faded paint????

I have never suffered brake fade but the whole wheel area gets hot and sometimes the wheel bolts are hot to handle.....

Do you think i might have another issue if things are getting that hot???

[glendog74]

So you think i have nothing to worry about with the faded paint????

I have never suffered brake fade but the whole wheel area gets hot and sometimes the wheel bolts are hot to handle.....

Do you think i might have another issue if things are getting that hot???

No - I have the same symptoms on track which I believe is quite normal. As said before, unless you are actually getting fade or other brake loss issues, then cooling ducts may well be more of a hindrance with airflow disruption than help IMHO.

[shimmy]

No you dumb eel farmer ;)

we all get hot brakes and even mine are going grey (will get them serviced this winter though)

you've only got somethin wrong if they get scorching driving down the road to Bernards

[glendog74]

No you dumb eel farmer ;)

we all get hot brakes and even mine are going grey (will get them serviced this winter though)

you've only got somethin wrong if they get scorching driving down the road to Bernards

ROFL :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[shane@mbtech]

My only issue was warping the ap discs, I feel i warmed up and cooled downed sufficiently but 1 wet and 1 dry oulton park saw my wheel shaking violently under any braking, no residue on discs either, so im not a happy chappy:banghead: im now on pf discs ill see how they are

[shimmy]

My only issue was warping the ap discs, I feel i warmed up and cooled downed sufficiently but 1 wet and 1 dry oulton park saw my wheel shaking violently under any braking, no residue on discs either, so im not a happy chappy:banghead: im now on pf discs ill see how they are


what pads were you running?

[alexk]

So you think i have nothing to worry about with the faded paint????

I have never suffered brake fade but the whole wheel area gets hot and sometimes the wheel bolts are hot to handle.....

Do you think i might have another issue if things are getting that hot???


I think you need seminar by Fuchsroehre !!!
Brake solutions - Fuchsroehre Engineering and Associates
CSL brake best practises
1. You throw away the BBK and stick back the single piston diamonds
2. You lift the foot from the left petal (the small petal)2.1 If you cannot overcome it mentally, take out the brake pedal, it will help you !

[Bealo]

HAHA... laugh it up.

Well i'll stop worrying now lol

[shane@mbtech]

what pads were you running?


Carbotech xp10's, quite aggressive pad, but loads of the mlr boys are running this set-up with no issues

Im now on rs14 with pf discs

[_Nathan_]

Carbotech xp10's, quite aggressive pad, but loads of the mlr boys are running this set-up with no issues

Im now on rs14 with pf discs

A load of the MLR guys run DS2500 and rate them but they are wank on a CSL, goes to show that different cars like different mods...

[shimmy]

A load of the MLR guys run DS2500 and rate them but they are wank on a CSL, goes to show that different cars like different mods...

wank on track but good on the road (but fine on the rear brakes track and road):thumbs:

[shimmy]

Carbotech xp10's, quite aggressive pad, but loads of the mlr boys are running this set-up with no issues

Im now on rs14 with pf discs

i did the same and was convinced it was warped but i now reckon it was pad deposits. Not easy to see, just need to somehow clean up the discs

[northernjim]

i did the same and was convinced it was warped but i now reckon it was pad deposits. Not easy to see, just need to somehow clean up the discs


I was always told that you just needed to go for a good 'drive' to clean them up again.....


how do the pagids compare to ds2500's then?

I wouldn't mind trying something else in my :supz:AP's:supz:

[_Nathan_]

DS2500 are made of chocolate, Pagids aren't :)

[shane@mbtech]

i did the same and was convinced it was warped but i now reckon it was pad deposits. Not easy to see, just need to somehow clean up the discs


I cleaned them up a treat, I fitted new pads, they were horrendous, I run my own garage so i hope I could tell the difference, they were definitely warped as run out proved. :thumbs:

Ive had them skimmed so they should now be sweet:thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

I was always told that you just needed to go for a good 'drive' to clean them up again.....


how do the pagids compare to ds2500's then?

I wouldn't mind trying something else in my :supz:AP's:supz:

It was after the "good drive" that it started:thumbs:

[shimmy]

I cleaned them up a treat, I fitted new pads, they were horrendous, I run my own garage so i hope I could tell the difference, they were definitely warped as run out proved. :thumbs:

Ive had them skimmed so they should now be sweet:thumbs:

AP skimmed mine for free but it came back as you are basically still taking the top off the cirve and the disc is still warped

they replaced them next FOC

[shane@mbtech]

AP skimmed mine for free but it came back as you are basically still taking the top off the cirve and the disc is still warped

they replaced them next FOC


Maybe a call to ap is on the cards:thumbs:

[northernjim]

AP skimmed mine for free but it came back as you are basically still taking the top off the cirve and the disc is still warped

they replaced them next FOC


did you get yours from AP?

I've had mine skimmed twice now, but as I got them from graham goode they didnt want to know anything about them when I told them they were warped.... being consumables and all that:smt076:smt076:smt010

[shimmy]

bought the BBK kit from Questmeads

but then rang Pete Collen at AP who looks after the workshop and tech help and he told me to go in and see him

had it on the ramp and discs of and skimmed

went back two months later and he swapped them


didnt play it big balls out, just told him like it was and asked what to do and he just helped me

nbeen there twice since and he is always eager to help if there is space on the ramp

[northernjim]

that that level of service still exists is good to hear:thumbs:


just wish I'd called them up:banghead:

[glendog74]

how do the pagids compare to ds2500's then?

I wouldn't mind trying something else in my :supz:AP's:supz:

Like night and day mate - I wouldn't use DS2500s again on track.

I have good experience of Questmead too - very good customer service & advice :thumbs:

[northernjim]

I'm thinking of getting a more abrasive compound pad for track days, and keeping the ferodos for day to day....


but which compound pagids do people use?

rs 5, rs14, rs 15, 29's, 4-2-4!!

[shimmy]

Like night and day mate - I wouldn't use DS2500s again on track.



DS2500 shouldnt be used on track, you will get deposits and think your discs are fecked, same with RS421 and probably a few more fast road pads, great on road, no squeal but troublesome on track.

Ive tried most pagids and would say for track use Rs29 and Rs14 are great with Rs14 the better on road of the two. RS15 are a little to aggressive on the discs you will find but ok maybe of you are on a racing budget, but road use even worse

PF01 much like Rs29 but last abit longer and not so prone to break up in the last 5mm of pad.

[northernjim]

DS2500 shouldnt be used on track, you will get deposits and think your discs are fecked, same with RS421 and probably a few more fast road pads, great on road, no squeal but troublesome on track.

Ive tried most pagids and would say for track use Rs29 and Rs14 are great with Rs14 the better on road of the two. RS15 are a little to aggressive on the discs you will find but ok maybe of you are on a racing budget, but road use even worse

PF01 much like Rs29 but last abit longer and not so prone to break up in the last 5mm of pad.



:beer:cheers mr shimmster:smt055

[shimmy]

currently run Rs14 front and DS2500 rear on track and sometimes swap back to DS2500 front for longer periods of road use (no squeal and less brake dust)

but equaly happy with RS29 and PF01 tbh on the fronts:thumbs:

[northernjim]

would you say that these pagids are much more abrasive than 2500's then? I'm not too bothered, just as long as they work:thumbs:



do you know which calipers your AP kit uses on your cars?


I have the cp7040, they[the pagids] should be easy enough to get hold of if they are the same.....




trundles off to search for some on the t'interweb....

[shimmy]

would you say that these pagids are much more abrasive than 2500's then? I'm not too bothered, just as long as they work:thumbs:



do you know which calipers your AP kit uses on your cars?


I have the cp7040, they[the pagids] should be easy enough to get hold of if they are the same.....




trundles off to search for some on the t'interweb....

Rs421 Pagids are similar to DS2500

Pagid Rs29, 14, 15 more abrasive and track focused

[AlexGTT]

I use RS 29's all round and have no issues on road or track. Front AP disc's were not good on mine. I find PF far better. I have AP's all round but run standard discs on the back. Usually find them a bit grumbly on the road from cold but that soon goes away when they're nicely warmed up.

Absolutely no fade on track, even on hard braking tracks. No need for cooling ducts unless you plan on racing.

[englebert]

2500s are frankly a stupid standard fit by AP.

PF discs and Pagids are the way forward!

[shimmy]

I spoke to AP about this and they had a deal with Ferrodo at the time and DS 3000 were too aggressive and corrosive to the rims.

Reading between the lines I think they were suggesting that people using the 2500 on track has backfired on them

[Curly]

RS14 take some beating on track and cheaper than the RS29's;)

[Mark S]

I've had my csl since March 07 and have done 18k miles and 28 trackdays with the same OEM discs/calipers and 2 sets of RS29's. The discs have not been skimmed, but they are a bit thin. Maybe i dont try hard enough :hahaha:


After getting some grief (from Curly) and trying a car with AP's, i bought a full set of AP discs/calipers and RS29's in August and fitted them for Donny in September. They seem quite good (compared to OEM's) and there is no vibration yet, but i have only done 1 trackday.


On a different subject, a mate has bought an E46 M3 with standard brakes and the calipers are aluminium/burnt. Does anyone know who would re-paint or refurbish the calipers in south Manchester? and how much is a fair price?

[phat///M3]

On a different subject, a mate has bought an E46 M3 with standard brakes and the calipers are aluminium/burnt. Does anyone know who would re-paint or refurbish the calipers in south Manchester? and how much is a fair price?

Easily done by yourself with some brake caliper paint (clean, prep, paint, done).