AP floating disk upgrade

[s.mac]

Has anyone done this ?

http://www.simpsonmotorsport.co.uk/bmw-tuning/product.asp?id=67&pid=67&cid=7&pcid=12&product=27

or know what it is?

thanks

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

S.mac-Its a Disc / Belle combination, instead of the
CSL One piece discs.

I have 2 piece, belles etc, on the front.

I think the standard CSL Disc are very good, not sure why
somebody has not done just a caliper upgrade to run with
the standard CSL Discs.

Many after market kits go to 32mm or 35mm thick discs
as opposed the 28mm of the CSL ones.
That alone adds back about 1.2 kg over the 28mm thick ones.

The rears would be good as well, make the belles
out of 6063 hard Alloy, and hard anodize to 60 thou microns,
for the hand Brake shoes,
save about 2/3 kgs a side of un-sprung weight,
and still retain the handbrake.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[s.mac]

thanks Gorilla, Anthony at Simpson's has come back to me and its not an upgrade he advises for a street / track day car.

I think the standard CSL Disc are very good, not sure why
somebody has not done just a caliper upgrade to run with
the standard CSL Discs

they have in America :smt001

Anthony suggested sticking with the standard AP bell and just upgrading the disks to the PF disks (slightly more $$ than the AP disks)

The rears would be good as well, make the belles
out of 6063 hard Alloy, and hard anodize to 60 thou microns,
for the hand Brake shoes,
save about 2/3 kgs a side of un-sprung weight,
and still retain the handbrake.


Both Performance Friction and Stoptech do 2 peice Rear OEM size disks :smt001

[s.mac]

I am just about to order a set of replacement front disks for an AP kit

question to those who have used both PF and the AP disks

is one better than the other????

[Mark CSL]

PF is the best :thumbs:

[Bealo]

How about a group buy???? :thumbs:

I'm in need of some new front discs soon and if we can get decent discount then i'll get them with the group buy.

[s.mac]

I am happy with that if its not too long, I need a bolt set as well for the new disks.
looking around Thorney is the cheapest online, although when I have bought PF in the past these guys were very good on price

http://www.coordsport.com/

[s.mac]

would still like a few more comments on PF v AP

I have PF and rate them but have not used with an AP kit, AP have very good race history and I have no experience with their disks

[TANKSLAPPER]

PF disc's last twice as long as AP one's

PF disc's are the best

[s.mac]

I have ordered my 2 piece stoptech grooved rears which have a 7 to 10 day delivery time. I would like to order a set of front disks ASAP what's the best way to get things rolling?
Shall I pm thorney or do we need some numbers, I cant see there being much interest in a group buy but i'm happy to give it a go :whistle:

[s.mac]

Group Buy thread now open ;)

[Ade]

Alcons are more durable than PFs.

Several GT3 owners have run PFs vs Alcons over 20-30k miles, and consensus shows that Alcons last longer.

[NZ_M3]

S.mac-Its a Disc / Belle combination, instead of the
CSL One piece discs.


CSL discs are two piece design - separated by titanium pins - it's a floating design, albeit only for radial expansion not axial expansion.

The proper floating discs like Alcon and Brembos are full floating - i.e. both axial and radial expansion separate from the Bell (which is usually aluminium)



I think the standard CSL Disc are very good, not sure why
somebody has not done just a caliper upgrade to run with
the standard CSL Discs.


They have actually ... and it's made by Alcon/UUC Motorwerks

It's a monoblock 6 front with the CSL front disc and 4 piston twin block with the CSL rear disc

Link here:

Fronts:
http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/product_detail.asp?RowID=645&CS=uuc&All=

Rear:
http://store.nexternal.com/shared/StoreFront/product_detail.asp?RowID=646&CS=uuc&All=

[_Nathan_]

Simpsons do a kit with an AP 6 pot caliper to use the standard CSL disk too.

Think I'm going to move to PF full floating next. Rattle rattle rattle :D

[_Nathan_]

Alcons are more durable than PFs.

Several GT3 owners have run PFs vs Alcons over 20-30k miles, and consensus shows that Alcons last longer.

Several GT3 owners use R888 out of choice so their credibility is in tatters :thumbs:

Sure the Alcon stuff is good but reports from CSL owners will be more relevant than GT3 owners, different weight distribution, different size disks, different calipers etc etc.

Also, there are threads started elsewhere by GT3 drivers entitled "Alcon problems" which doesn't quite give the impression of good quality control...

[shimmy]

God knows why you need them.

Stock brakes are perfectly adequate

[_Nathan_]

Fuchs - give Shimmy his login back.

[Ade]

Sure the Alcon stuff is good but reports from CSL owners will be more relevant than GT3 owners, different weight distribution, different size disks, different calipers etc etc.


None of those points above have anything to do with durability of a brake disc when it's being eroded by a brake pad. Same car, PF or Alcon disc, and the Alcons last longer than PFs.


Also, there are threads started elsewhere by GT3 drivers entitled "Alcon problems" which doesn't quite give the impression of good quality control...


That's only one person - Daz - who has been the ONLY reported problem of Alcons as far as a search on the interweb goes. And he had his discs removed, skimmed, dismantled, and every kind of fiddling by non-Alcon suppliers so far apart from actually going to the suppliers of his disc or Alcon themselves. Don't go scaremongering shit like this. :banghead:

[TANKSLAPPER]

PF are the best, AP and Alcon are second best

ask Fuchs

[_Nathan_]

My point is that the CSL application is different to the GT3 application, the heat generated will be different, the cooling is different and the thermo properties of the disk will be different if it is a different shape and size.

I'm sure they are good but until someone has run both on a CSL until they have worn out I can't see how you can say with 100% confidence that one will last longer than the other?

If I were buying new I'd look at them certainly, having to remove the caliper to change the pads could be an issue for me as I imagine it is slower but other than that they look great, this thread is about replacing disks for an AP kit, is there even an Alcon disk available to fit the AP bell? If not the comments about Alcon are completely irrelevant anyway.

PS. When unspecified "problems" with AP stuff is used as a selling point for Alcon it is only fair to point out that regardless of what you buy people can and do have issues.

[shimmy]

cant comment on Alcons on M3 but my AP discs on the front (two sets) both lasted 1 year, 20k miles and 17 track days

MY PF discs on this year have so far done 5k miles and 13 trackdays but i seriously doubt they will do DOUBLE the AP above (2 years, 40k miles and 34 trackdays)

[_Nathan_]

I never got 20k miles out of a set of AP Disks! I am just a hobbyist IDIOT.

[shimmy]

I never got 20k miles out of a set of AP Disks! I am just a hobbyist IDIOT.

now i would never say that.........but i know someone who might:thumbs:

[Ade]

If I were buying new I'd look at them certainly, having to remove the caliper to change the pads could be an issue for me as I imagine it is slower but other than that they look great, this thread is about replacing disks for an AP kit, is there even an Alcon disk available to fit the AP bell? If not the comments about Alcon are completely irrelevant anyway.

PS. When unspecified "problems" with AP stuff is used as a selling point for Alcon it is only fair to point out that regardless of what you buy people can and do have issues.

Changing pads on the Alcons is a caliper off job, but it's only one bolt to rotate the caliper out. It's still a very easy job on the driveway.

Don't know if there are any real "problems" with APs and they certainly wouldn't be my basis for not choosing them. But general consensus did say their discs were questionable at best in comparison to others, including OEM CSL discs. Alcons OTOH were a proven solution on my old GT3 and used just as successfully as APs in top flight rally and FIA GT motorsport. Certainly less reported issues compared to APs.

Amyway, getting back to the OP question: between APs and PFs, I'd probably choose PFs.

[s.mac]

I haven't seen anyone advertising an Alcon disk for use with an AP calliper set up ?

[NZ_M3]

Changing pads on the Alcons is a caliper off job, but it's only one bolt to rotate the caliper out. It's still a very easy job on the driveway.


Really? I've always had to undo both bolts to change the pads ... pain in the butt to be honest and almost impossible to do at the track if the brakes are HOTT!!!