get my car back Thursday - EXCITED

[shimmy]

ok, so i hear today my car has been pampered and loved and they think all the bits are sorted So i am off to Simpsons on Thursday morning to pick her up:thumbs:

hopefully the occassional overheating and dodgy throttle response is cured,

a few more bits changed mainly preventative medecine:smokin:

dynoed to check she is still kicking out 410 bhp:birdman:

lets hope i can afford it and i can tell the difference:smt055

BEST OF ALL i can get rid of this awful Nissan Micra.......................

[NZ_M3]

dynoed to check she is still kicking out 410 bhp:birdman:

Whatever ... Prove it :hahaha::whistle:

[glendog74]

http://www.bbcamerica.com/media/topgear/pic_epguide_s8_e1_320.jpg

:whistle:

[glendog74]

lets hope i can afford it :smt055

You could always sell me some Cup tyres from your stash if you need some cash! ;)

[Bealo]

Glad to hear everything is ok :thumbs:

Let me know what she got treated to...

[7.77]

and what was the reason of the overheating problem ??

[Hazy]

and what was the reason of the overheating problem ??

owner spouting too much hot air about fantasy horsepower :hahaha:

Saw your car on Monday Shim picking up the E36...

[shimmy]

owner spouting too much hot air about fantasy horsepower :hahaha:

Saw your car on Monday Shim picking up the E36...

Hazy, as we all know BHP is king (said the man with the 650 bhp Skyline at Snett lapping 3 secs slower than Bealo and Me:beer:)

Yep, not sure yet what has been done but as soon as i have the list and bill:bigcry: i will be letting you know.

Roll on Thursday (havent been so excited for months)

[AlexGTT]

Glad all is being sorted Shimmy. Your car delayed mine getting it's new suspension and other toys fitted. Picking mine up today or tomorrow, I hope! I'm also like my 5 year old before Christmas.:thumbs:

[shimmy]

Glad all is being sorted Shimmy. Your car delayed mine getting it's new suspension and other toys fitted. Picking mine up today or tomorrow, I hope! I'm also like my 5 year old before Christmas.:thumbs:


Sorry;)

you getting that turner OIL COOLER?

[AlexGTT]

Sorry;)

you getting that turner OIL COOLER?

Yes Shim. Noticed my oil temps rising a little higher than normal after 8ish laps followed by the water temps. Water temps didn't get past the 2/3's dot but were all over it 3-4 laps after the oil temps did the same. More noticable on shorter tracks. No problems on tracks with nice long straights. Had a cylinder leak down test and all was OK, as was all the coolant system. Don't know if it'll make a difference or not but I'll report my findings. Probably a damn good water rad, oil cooler and air con condensor clean up would help.

Ant had the turner kit in for another car but was never fitted, so I "helped him out" as it was hanging around the workshop looking unwanted. ;)

[Bealo]

Yes Shim. Noticed my oil temps rising a little higher than normal after 8ish laps followed by the water temps. Water temps didn't get past the 2/3's dot but were all over it 3-4 laps after the oil temps did the same. More noticable on shorter tracks. No problems on tracks with nice long straights. Had a cylinder leak down test and all was OK, as was all the coolant system. Don't know if it'll make a difference or not but I'll report my findings. Probably a damn good water rad, oil cooler and air con condensor clean up would help.

Ant had the turner kit in for another car but was never fitted, so I "helped him out" as it was hanging around the workshop looking unwanted. ;)

Looking forward to hearing your reactions on the oil cooler kit Alex.

I might have to bring one back in my suitcase next time in the States. :thumbs:

[Housey]

What was wrong with it in the end Shims?

[shimmy]

What was wrong with it in the end Shims?

need to chat to Julian tomorrow at Simpsons to find out what was discovered that was the initial problem that caused the overheating and led to the throttle irregularity and loss of power eventually but needless to say we have replaced a few bits that were showing signs of age and wear and tear, some of which were not connected but good practice with a 65k mile car that occassionally goes on track:clown:

i will post up the results and a few photos end of the week!

[azrael]

Shim was this at the end of 4th gear? in S6?

[shimmy]

Shim was this at the end of 4th gear? in S6?

what , the overheating?

[AlexGTT]

Are you happy to have it back Shimmy? I know I'm very happy with mine. Just getting used to the suspension but only driven it the 20 odd miles home at the moment.

I'll keep posted re: oil temps.

[Paul Eggleton]

Have you got a post on here with photo's and spec of your car Shimmy. I'd be interested to see what you've had done already.

Cheers

Paul.

[shimmy]

Have you got a post on here with photo's and spec of your car Shimmy. I'd be interested to see what you've had done already.

Cheers

Paul.

not much other than repair it when it brakes really Paul:bigcry:

mine is SG CSL, intrax ik2, AP brakes and PF front discs. :smt055

recaro SPG XL drivers seat and a new head gasket:whistle:

[csl_mba]

So was that the cause of the overheat Shimmy?

[shimmy]

ok, so just a reminder........

since June/July i have had a little irregular throttle response low revs and around 2-3k revs. also in august i had a day at Donny where the water temp guage went very close tot he red zone after 4-5 quick laps on a hot track day.

Snetterton this month the car wasnt quite right and felt like it lacked power which the data logger seemed to back up compared to last year

So went down to Simpsons last week to get it checked out. Misfiring a little worse on the way down. Ant, Julian and Jo did a compression leak test ont he cylinders straight away while i made a cup of coffee and low and behold cylinders 5 & 6 were low and leaking to each other. Whipped off the head then and there and found that the gasket had failed between 5 & 6 and just about between a couple of other cylinders (the gasket is very thin at these points by the way. (pics to follow)

They immediately checked the head for warping and the block for detonation damage but all looked ok.

So the question we mulled over, but never solved, was "did a failing head gasket cause the overheating and throttle issues OR did the overheating cause the head gasket to fail and the throttle issues OR did some sort of failure of another element like coil or injectors casue under fueling (run lean) and therefore over heat the car and cause the gasket to fail.

Who knows!!!

But within 4 days they had replaced the gasket and head bolts, and sorted out the car. Road test and dyno test and 355bhp and all looked well.

I also asked them to do a 60k mile replacement and service and we agreed to;

1. replace water pump (becasue it was starting to wobble)
2. replace thermostat (because i had already bought one)
3. relace both water temp senders (cheap)
4. remove the rads (water, oil and a/c) and clean them out inside and out. Remove the rubber and stones and dirt and bend back the fins to get them efficient again.
5. Replace the coil packs (mine were original and not the latest ones)
6. Refurbish the injectors (found to be running 5-10% down
7. Replace knock sensors
8 replace air filter
9. replace fuel filter


Vanos checked out ok a number of times.

My gut feeling for anybody that has a pending RED LINE water temp on track after high revs, but returns to normal after one corner easing off, is this but i could be wrong;

It is not the cooling system failing (although a tired cooling system in need of maintennace may not help and make it occur quicker) - many many posts about this in USA but nobody has found a solution from the cooling system other than massive oil cooler and rad which i think just hides the problem.
It is not a Head Gasket failing by itself! Could be though!
BUt i think something like the injectors running inefficiently and lean, is causiing all or some of the cylinders to detonate a little and heat up when running at full revs. Causes the head gasket to overheat and fail.

So had the car yesterday, took it for a test drive and..............oh fuck............misfire, worse than before.
Drove back to Simpsons and onto the Laptop checking fault codes............panic. Julian had only put back in my old refurbed injectors since it was run ok on the dyno, so checked them and all ok, BUT Lambda sensor had failed and so we they changed it.............EVERYHTING 100% OK

Car was quiet, smooth, powerful, no heat problems and running 80-95 on the oil and lss than 12 oclock on the water guages.

Need a track day now!

search words E46 M3 CSL overheating head gasket coils plugs, radiators water pump cylinders 5 6 track day

[Bealo]

Fingers crossed you have it sorted now :thumbs:

TBH though mate our cars do take a beating when driven hard and they stand upto it well.

I feel that all you have had done have had a small negative effect on your car.

Let us know how you get on at your next trackday.

[azrael]

what , the overheating?

The cut in power

[Paul Eggleton]

not much other than repair it when it brakes really Paul:bigcry:

mine is SG CSL, intrax ik2, AP brakes and PF front discs. :smt055

recaro SPG XL drivers seat and a new head gasket:whistle:

IN that case I fell for the 400bhp on the other post :banghead::hahaha:

Glad all is well now

[StevieS]

Glad you've got it sorted Shim. You'll miss that Micra though.

[Bealo]

IN that case I fell for the 400bhp on the other post :banghead::hahaha:

Glad all is well now


Paul

you will get to know the Shimysters sense of humour!!!!!

I'm glad he hasn't got 400 BHP cause it's hard enough keeping up with him now on track.

[shimmy]

IN that case I fell for the 400bhp on the other post :banghead::hahaha:

Glad all is well now

yep sorry, i meant to say i drive like i have 410 bhp, not that i have 410bhp;)


or that i need 410 bhp coz i am so fat!

[7.77]

so lot of £££££££ to solve (maybe) the problem :smt107

but why after overheating the temp is going down on long straight and on full throttle and full revs ???

if injectors are out ,this problem should arrive each time we are on full throttle and full revs ???

my way: big oil rad, and i will see after

[shimmy]

so lot of £££££££ to solve (maybe) the problem :smt107

but why after overheating the temp is going down on long straight and on full throttle and full revs ???

if injectors are out ,this problem should arrive each time we are on full throttle and full revs ???

my way: big oil rad, and i will see after

big oil rad from Turner fitted is £1000 so you spend more than mr just covering up the problem. CSL has done trackdays in warm weather no probs until recently so something new has caused this. Go check out the USA sites for all the guys who have spunked £ks on water rads, oil rads and pumps to do no good at all.

I think the problem dud occur every time I was at full revs and full throttle but to tip the guage over to red it needs oil temp highish and then track temp say in my case 27deg plus to not allow the cooiling to be sufficient.

You only gave to drop water temp 1-2 deg to get back from red line to 3/4.

[glendog74]

Go check out the USA sites for all the guys who have spunked...

Shim, this is hardly the place to bring your porn obsession to the forefront... :whistle:

[shane@mbtech]

big oil rad from Turner fitted is £1000 so you spend more than mr just covering up the problem. CSL has done trackdays in warm weather no probs until recently so something new has caused this. Go check out the USA sites for all the guys who have spunked £ks on water rads, oil rads and pumps to do no good at all.

I think the problem dud occur every time I was at full revs and full throttle but to tip the guage over to red it needs oil temp highish and then track temp say in my case 27deg plus to not allow the cooiling to be sufficient.

You only gave to drop water temp 1-2 deg to get back from red line to 3/4.


I agree 100%, if your coolant temp is pushing to near the red, you have a SERIOUS problem, gorilla was chatting some things about causes but i dont believe him as he contradicted what he was saying. My cars coolant temps do not budge on uk tracks and i drive the nuts off it. If it suddenly starts to rise, something has changed. So in this respect fitting a different stat or cooler is not the fix. I would have to find the cause.
Fitting tropical stats, bigger oil coolers etc I feel will NOT solve your problem, an oil cooler will be beneficial of course. But you have an underlying problem 777, as shims has discovered with his car.

I would have liked to have viewed his gasket, head block etc, but judging by what he was saying it sounds to me like the overheating caused his gasket failure. If the impeller on the water pump was loose/wobbling, this could be your cause of overheating could it not???

Hope everything turns out ok for you shims, i think all will be good for you:thumbs:

[shimmy]

I would have liked to have viewed his gasket, head block etc, but judging by what he was saying it sounds to me like the overheating caused his gasket failure. If the impeller on the water pump was loose/wobbling, this could be your cause of overheating could it not???
:thumbs:

pump was slightly wobbly but all parts were there so i think it was fine (just wearing out sometime in the future).




Hope everything turns out ok for you shims, i think all will be good for you

yep, the car feels strong now tbh, just gove it some nice easy road driving days for a week or two. My gut feel is that the fuel filter/injectors are the lean running issue and hence high temp so all should be ok.

I have a pic of the head gasket and will post when my main PC is fixed

[7.77]

ok ok, just let us know if it is now okay during trackdays.

my oil cooler isn't so expensive: the kit cost me about 500 $. adapters from turner, rad/hose/AN fittings from summit, and brackets from my own workshop (my garage :smokin:). Fitting done during next winter.

i also agree with you (it is my first season with my csl, so i don't know how it was before). So if mine hasn't been in the red limit of the gauge, it should be okay (i never let it pass the point before the red zone). So i need to check the flow of the injectors and maybe change each coil, is it okay ??

[shimmy]

ok ok, just let us know if it is now okay during trackdays.

my oil cooler isn't so expensive: the kit cost me about 500 $. adapters from turner, rad/hose/AN fittings from summit, and brackets from my own workshop (my garage :smokin:). Fitting done during next winter.

i also agree with you (it is my first season with my csl, so i don't know how it was before). So if mine hasn't been in the red limit of the gauge, it should be okay (i never let it pass the point before the red zone). So i need to check the flow of the injectors and maybe change each coil, is it okay ??

well on track the conditions wont be the same until next summer but we had it on the dyno at simpsons for 20 mins runnign stationary at high revs and low cooiling and exhasut was glowing - no issues so i hope its all ok.

:supz:

[Bealo]

That's good news to hear mate. I might get my injectors cleaned this winter just to be on the safe side :thumbs:

[shimmy]

Bealo

I search quite afew posts and forums for similar instances. I know a few guys in the UK at the time had not fixed it, and the States seemed to have more instances due to the constantly higher track temsp in lots of states.

quite afew searchses through up people thinking they had fixed it replacing pumps, rads, stats etc but only to later find out they had not and i find it hard to beleive all these faults caused exactly the same symptoms.THe post below really summed up my predicament and seemed to match my situation even before i knew the HG was going.

POST 1
The summer is only beginning and I am tracked the car for 15 days; I have another 10 - 15 days scheduled before the end of the year.
That said, it seems that there is a growing number for E46 M3’s that are experiencing a rising water temp problem on the track.
See thread by Stee on BF (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780513 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780513))
I have been experiencing this behavior since August 2006. I have taken the car in to the dealer 3 plus times – each time the car has been at the dealer for 2 plus weeks. However, the dealer has not been able to replicate the problem. As I stated in the thread, you cannot replicate the problem on the street…you are just not revving for longer periods.

POST 2
When I was having high coolant temps on the track (and only on the track) with my E36 M3, I chased my tail for months, trying and replacing everything.

It was the head gasket. .

Finally figured the root cause: bad injectors in cyls 5 & 6 causing lean conditions, and the rear knock sensor was bad, so timing wasn't pulled to compensate for the lean mixture. Replaced all of that, and car has been running like a champ for the past couple of years on the track.

IF you take the car to Spain or not i would get at 50-60k miles;

1. New plugs
2. New Coils if not recently replaced
3. Clean injectors
4. Replace knock sensors
5. Replace fuel filter
6. Clean all rads out of rubber and dirt

Thee changes are not very pricey tbh

[7.77]

:beer:

[Bealo]

Bealo

I search quite afew posts and forums for similar instances. I know a few guys in the UK at the time had not fixed it, and the States seemed to have more instances due to the constantly higher track temsp in lots of states.

quite afew searchses through up people thinking they had fixed it replacing pumps, rads, stats etc but only to later find out they had not and i find it hard to beleive all these faults caused exactly the same symptoms.THe post below really summed up my predicament and seemed to match my situation even before i knew the HG was going.
POST 1
The summer is only beginning and I am tracked the car for 15 days; I have another 10 - 15 days scheduled before the end of the year.
That said, it seems that there is a growing number for E46 M3’s that are experiencing a rising water temp problem on the track.
See thread by Stee on BF (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780513 (http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=780513))
I have been experiencing this behavior since August 2006. I have taken the car in to the dealer 3 plus times – each time the car has been at the dealer for 2 plus weeks. However, the dealer has not been able to replicate the problem. As I stated in the thread, you cannot replicate the problem on the street…you are just not revving for longer periods.

POST 2
When I was having high coolant temps on the track (and only on the track) with my E36 M3, I chased my tail for months, trying and replacing everything.

It was the head gasket. .

Finally figured the root cause: bad injectors in cyls 5 & 6 causing lean conditions, and the rear knock sensor was bad, so timing wasn't pulled to compensate for the lean mixture. Replaced all of that, and car has been running like a champ for the past couple of years on the track.

IF you take the car to Spain or not i would get at 50-60k miles;

1. New plugs
2. New Coils if not recently replaced
3. Clean injectors
4. Replace knock sensors
5. Replace fuel filter
6. Clean all rads out of rubber and dirt

Thee changes are not very pricey tbh


Cool, topman :thumbs:

What out of your list above would have been done in the Inspection 2 the car has just had?

[shimmy]

Cool, topman :thumbs:

What out of your list above would have been done in the Inspection 2 the car has just had?

my car just did inspection 1, not 2 (made a mistake)

i think plugs get done inspection 2 only and the rest NEVER

Fuel filter is a lifetime part but reports are they can clog at 60k miles +

[Bealo]

No i meant my car had an Inspection 2.

Ok well i think i will get my Garage to do that list when they size my car up for an oil cooler :thumbs:

[shimmy]

ok, so these photos were taken at Simpsons the morning i dropped the car off.


Julian and Jo were straight into the head to see what sort of damage had been done but luckily just the gasket.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/september2009005.jpg



Also took off the rads and water pump. Rads were filthy and bent up so down a little on efficiency but nothing to drastic. We cleaned and straightened them. Pump had a little wobble so got a new one.

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/september2009011.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/september2009007.jpg

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/september2009006.jpg



got her home safely

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/21March2009145.jpg

[glendog74]

Kin 'ell Shim-meister! A bit of rad TLC required :hahaha:

[glendog74]

Nice front door colour btw... :gayfight:

[shimmy]

Nice front door colour btw... :gayfight:

next door....................they are germans;)

they fooking painted the garage door the same

[Bealo]

So how's she running now mate?????

Can you feel the difference on the road????

[shimmy]

So how's she running now mate?????

Can you feel the difference on the road????

as soon as i drove her out of Simpsons the drive and throttle was smooth and reponsive and car seemed superb - felt like driving it straight to Bedford for an afternoon session!

(well actually second time i drive it out of Simpsons as first time the Lambda sensor went and car felt awful and misfiring and we all were panicing)

dyno test and run showed it was back to 355-360 bhp and running smoooth:smokin:

[alexk]

Excellent !
:thumbs:


Question : do you have michelin stickers in your tires ?
Info please, thank you please

[shimmy]

Excellent !
:thumbs:


Question : do you have michelin stickers in your tires ?
Info please, thank you please

no, got board and painted the MICHELIN bit one Sunday with a tyre paint stick

the other side had already worn off after one trackday

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/21March2009142.jpg

can you get stickers?

[alexk]

Got you..

I don't know mate if we can get stickers but the concept car had this fancy michelin (like motorbike tires...)

http://robson.m3rlin.org/cars/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/2002-bmw-m3-csl-concept-copy.jpg

[1cosmicboy]

i got a batch of these stickers from michelin sport ,look edgy when fitted

[1cosmicboy]

if someone can tell me how to put pics on here i,ll put some on to show the tyre stickers

[shimmy]

if someone can tell me how to put pics on here i,ll put some on to show the tyre stickers


fuck me now your testing us!

if its from a website just click above on the picture mountain logo nad paste URL

if you can upload it to photobucket.com or similar copy IMG code and paste into here also

it it is a small jpeg i think you can download it drectly ut only small files on MANAGE ATTACHMENTS below

[alexk]

fuck me now your testing us!


I totally agree !
We want pics :smt035

Thank you please !

[Bealo]

as soon as i drove her out of Simpsons the drive and throttle was smooth and reponsive and car seemed superb - felt like driving it straight to Bedford for an afternoon session!

(well actually second time i drive it out of Simpsons as first time the Lambda sensor went and car felt awful and misfiring and we all were panicing)

dyno test and run showed it was back to 355-360 bhp and running smoooth:smokin:

Sounds good. how did they clean the rad? did they flush it?????

[shimmy]

Ep nothing complicated

just flushed and jet washed outside, then straightened fins.

Condition inside rad looked good

We added 'wetter' as well with coolant.

[Bealo]

Did they say anything about upgrading the oil cooler?????

[shimmy]

Did they say anything about upgrading the oil cooler?????



no, they said that only rich fools upgrade the oil cooler as standard is perfectly suitable:thumbs:

tbh i said i didnt want to at this stage as i didnt want to cover up any overheating. My car looks mlike mit now is running much cooler so wont run an oil cooler unless i have to later. Probably good idea in sunnier climates though.

I think i would fit a diff rad and maybe gearbox rad first for serious track work

[Curly]

good news shim:thumbs: nice crib

[shimmy]

Kin 'ell Shim-meister! A bit of rad TLC required :hahaha:

Rob, looking at the rads from the outside before they were removed they looked fine, except for the odd bent fin.....so dont think yours look any better (per mile)

[Bealo]

TBH mine doesn't get used as much on track as yours and i guess i have the warranty to cover things but i just don't like the thought of those high oil temps... saying that i have never seen over 120 on track :thumbs:

I still think i will go for one and i will let you know my findings :thumbs:



no, they said that only rich fools upgrade the oil cooler as standard is perfectly suitable:thumbs:

tbh i said i didnt want to at this stage as i didnt want to cover up any overheating. My car looks mlike mit now is running much cooler so wont run an oil cooler unless i have to later. Probably good idea in sunnier climates though.

I think i would fit a diff rad and maybe gearbox rad first for serious track work

[glendog74]

Rob, looking at the rads from the outside before they were removed they looked fine, except for the odd bent fin.....so dont think yours look any better (per mile)

I hear ya Shim... Mine also looks okay from the outside, but of course you can't see the whole thing. I may have a little root around one weekend and have a go at cleaning mine and straightening any bent fins if needed.

The small rad in your pics - is that the oil cooler rad?

[shimmy]

The small rad in your pics - is that the oil cooler rad?

yes, sits low down nearly under the front bumper

main rad is shielded slightly by the a/c rad and a couple of runs of power steering cooling pipe there as well

[AlexGTT]

Good pictures Shimmy. My oil cooler looked like yours! It's always worth a good clean out of radiator cores. Doing mine at the moment. The amount of debris is alarming.

I'll have to wait until Summer next year to see the benefits.

[glendog74]

I'll have to wait until Summer next year to see the benefits.

Either that or you'll just have to drive faster at the Ring in November... ;) :hahaha:

[AlexGTT]

Either that or you'll just have to drive faster at the Ring in November... ;) :hahaha:

Indeed!

Good weather solutions Rob. Thank you please.:hahaha:

[Thorney]

So replacing the head gasket and cleaning out the oil cooler sorted it?;)

Good job I dont charge for advice isn't it;);)

[s.mac]

Mines in for a bit of TLC today so I have a 630i sport for a week, I hate the look of these things but it goes quicker than I thought and its a good drive. I've only had it this afternoon and I'm liking it already :toimonster:

too many gadgets, I had a couple of close calls looking and the bits and driving :banghead:

sorry to jump on thread :whistle:

[s.mac]

Cars looking good Shimmy :supz:

[shimmy]

So replacing the head gasket and cleaning out the oil cooler sorted it?;)

Good job I dont charge for advice isn't it;);)

head gasket def was gone John between cylinders but i am not convinced cooling was the base problem, i think it was fuel related that caused overheating, but either way it is now A1

Please send the bill to Elliot.........:birdman:

[Bealo]

How clogged up where the injectors????

[Bealo]

OOPs

Just read the thread again and see that they were 5-10% down :whistle: