Arm bushes + wishbone bushes

[alexk]

Hi guys,

It looks like the rear arm bushes are not in good condition anymore and the car has a play from the rear axle.
Are you using aftermarket bushes for the rear arms and the front wishbones ?

If yes, which ones are you using ?
Any drawbacks ?

Cheers

[shimmy]

RTAB i use OEM bmw ones but with Turner limiter kits. Keeps the stress on the chassis standard.

some use the powerflex poly bushes which suti the track but give a little harsher ride. My only concern is that poly bushes transmit more and more force to the subframe and chassis mounts and they are prone to failure.

[glendog74]

I'm the same as Shimmy :thumbs:(bushes wise...)

[_Nathan_]

Using solid bearing RTAB bush from Simpson which I think are the Turner ones and using Ground Control solid fronts.

I used the solid rears when it was a road car and they were fine, new bearing races required every 15k-20k miles, have driven to spa and back with the solid fronts and they were fine as well though the car was a bit harsher then and I don't know how much of that was down to the bushes, can't comment on how well they would last though.

Ground control so a more road biased version of the fronts too.

[Curly]

RTAB i use OEM bmw ones but with Turner limiter kits. Keeps the stress on the chassis standard.

some use the powerflex poly bushes which suti the track but give a little harsher ride. My only concern is that poly bushes transmit more and more force to the subframe and chassis mounts and they are prone to failure.

ditto

[alexk]

Does anybody knows this part number ?
It's from the BMW Motorsport catalog.
3332 2271630

[shimmy]

Does anybody knows this part number ?
It's from the BMW Motorsport catalog.
3332 2271630

3332 2271630 Lagerbuchse vorn / bearing bushing front


google is your friend

full msport catalogue

http://resource.bmwusa.com/Pdf_99a8b055-f205-41d5-9d56-81c4f6941759.arox.

[NZ_M3]

http://www.vorshlag.com/product_info.php?cPath=1_8_29&products_id=59

A quote from Vorshlag Motorsport website on the RTAB:


This product entry is for a complete set of Vorshlag built RTAB limiters for a BMW E36 or E46 chassis - this is enough to reinforce both rear trailing arm bushing locations on these cars. The purpose of these limiters is to minimize toe change during excessive movement of the rear suspension trailing arms. These bushings will not affect ride comfort and allow the stock bushing to perform its regular duties while allowing toe control under the extreme conditions of autocross or track duty. We use these on our shop's V8 powered BMW E36, with 315mm R compound tires on 11" rear wheels, and they work great - so they should work well for just about any BMW out there.

In the Rear Trailing Arm Bushing (RTAB) location on the rear suspension of an E36 or E46 BMW the bushing has to pivot on two axis. Unlike other suspension bushing locations that only have one axis of rotation, swapping in excessively stiff replacement bushings using materials such as Polyurethane can and will cause suspension bind. The stock rubber M3 bushing is fairly compliant and effective when brand new but wears quickly over time, and doesn't cope with the added forces from race tires in perfect condition. Added wear adds excessive toe change under suspension movement, acceleration and braking. It is compounded greatly with additional power and grip from racing compound tires. If your stock RTABs have more than 20K miles and/or you've used the car for more than a season of racing, they are likely shot.

We've seen some significant toe change on some cars with stock (and/or worn) RTABs - usually evidenced by toe induced tire rub where there shouldn't have been any. These Limiters do work - they limit the deflection of the rubber mounts but they do not add additional noise or bind, and will extend the life of a rubber RTAB bushing considerably.

Many racers just blindly install polyurethane into this and all bushing locations as a "fix" for a worn OEM rubber RTAB bushing. Polyurethane is a bad choice for a bushing material if it has to deflect - such as in a multi-axis suspension bushing location like the RTAB. Rubber bushings + limiters or a complete replacement with a custom steel spherical bearing are the only two textbook choices for this location. We cannot count the number of times we have seen RTAB or front LCA failures on BMWs that were using poly in these areas - an expensive repair and dangerous racing situation. At the very least poly will add bind during significant suspension movement, and this can make the handling feel odd (unexplained oversteer) as well as add significant stress to the suspension-to-chassis mounts (which is how they can fail over time).

That said, some folks with fully track prepared race BMWs have had OK results with polyurethane RTABs. This is due to the much higher spring rates and smoothness of tracks they tend to run with - higher spring rates and smooth tracks limit suspension travel, and thus limits the potential for bind from a polyurethane bushing at this bushing location. So even though you may hear good results from one racer, it doesn't necessarily mean that poly RTABs are the right choice for you. If you have a street car or dual purpose BMW you should always stick with OEM bushings and RTAB limiters, and even many race prepped BMWs use this setup with excellent results.

We recommend using the latest version of the BMW M3 replacement bushing (sold separately and available from Vorshlag) for all E36 and E46 chassis BMWs + a set of aftermarket RTAB Limiters.

[shimmy]

wow

i dont very often get things right but..........................:thumbs:

[glendog74]

wow

i dont very often get things right but..........................:thumbs:

Shimmy - you rock! :rock:

[Thorney]

Not seen a proflex bush fail yet. All our race cars run them without issue and no difference in ride.

[alexk]

3332 2271630 Lagerbuchse vorn / bearing bushing front


google is your friend

full msport catalogue

http://resource.bmwusa.com/Pdf_99a8b055-f205-41d5-9d56-81c4f6941759.arox.


I got the number from the catalog mate
:beer:

It's from the rear arm, the front bushing.

[AlexGTT]

Shimmy - you rock! :rock:

Get a room guys! :gayfight::hahaha:

[Bealo]

Get a room guys! :gayfight::hahaha:


Bloody too right Alex, my money is on Shimmy get his wheels painted a girlie colour soon.......


Mmm that makes interesting reading, i will be addressing my cars bushings this winter as all i have is poly RTAB at the moment.

[alexk]

I got a quote for the BMW Motorsport ones.
I will order 2 of them and then we can compare them with the standard.

BTW, I think the part number of the CSL ones, is the same with the M3 ones.

[NZ_M3]

BTW, I think the part number of the CSL ones, is the same with the M3 ones.

That is correct .. .and same as the Z4 also.

Mind posting what the motorsport item pricing is?

[alexk]

That is correct .. .and same as the Z4 also.

Mind posting what the motorsport item pricing is?

In CH it's 78CHF

[shimmy]

In CH it's 78CHF

cheers, thats handy to know!:thumbs:

[Bealo]

cheers, thats handy to know!:thumbs:

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[alexk]

cheers, thats handy to know!:thumbs:

With today's FX rates :
78 CHF -> 45.8 GBP -> 51.3 EUR

Have you heard of http://www.xe.com (http://www.xe.com/) ?

I ordered a set and I will go for the limiter kit as well...
:beer:

[alexk]

Tomorrow I am going to have in my hands the bushes (the BMW Motorsport ones).
I will provide photos...

[alexk]

Tomorrow I am going to have in my hands the bushes (the BMW Motorsport ones).
I will provide photos...

Surprise surprise !!!
The bushes from BMW Motorsport are uniball joint.
(I still need to order 3 parts (the uniball and 2 rings) on each side).
I guess these won't have any play.
749
750

Let's see what my father's opinion is...

[alexk]

So, I got the rest of the parts.
They are solid/uniball.

But there is something strange, they are very thin.
Why is that ? Any ideas ?

815
816
817
818
819

[alexk]

The only thing that I can think is that you put 2 of them on each arm.
If that's the case, I will leave it because 2 of them are very expensive !

[_Nathan_]

Perhaps they are designed for the motorsport cars which have could well have different Suspension parts (ceratinly if you look under an s2000 e46 320i the suspension looks completely different to a normal 3 series or M3).

[alexk]

Perhaps they are designed for the motorsport cars which have could well have different Suspension parts (ceratinly if you look under an s2000 e46 320i the suspension looks completely different to a normal 3 series or M3).

I don't see a part number available for the wishbone so I would assume it's the same.

I think I threw some $$$ away :banghead:

[NZ_M3]

The trailing arm is noted as part no.1 in the catalogue.

Also given that part 3332 2484016 is a 60mm circlip that holds the whole bearing housing in, it would seem logical that it is a different part to the factory item (as there's no circlip grove for holding the bearing housing within the trailing arm)

[mattCSLnut]

As far as I know ( that's not saying much ) these bushes are pressed in and do not have any cir-clips. :whistle:

Hmm, Hmm... I should have looked at the pix below before bashing out the tosh above. These LOOK a bit SPECIAL. Are they some kind of an UPGRADE ? to the known weak spot of E46s. I was thinking about standard rubber/aluminium type, when I wrote the above.

[glendog74]

The bigger bush looks like a diff mounting bush? :smt017

I personally wouldn't fit solid aluminium bushes Alex - unless you only plan to use the car on track? :smt102

I think these must be meant for race car use...

[_Nathan_]

I ran the Simpson solid RTAB bushes for over 20k miles on the road, they are fine.

[Bealo]

I think i'm going to go along with Nathan/Simpsons recommendation and go the solid rear and ground control fronts :thumbs:

[shimmy]

I think i'm going to go along with Nathan/Simpsons recommendation and go the solid rear and ground control fronts :thumbs:

sounds like youve got quite a list to do this winter Bealo:thumbs:. If you need someone to help sort it why you are away let me know.:thumbs:

[Thorney]

RTAB i use OEM bmw ones but with Turner limiter kits. Keeps the stress on the chassis standard.

some use the powerflex poly bushes which suti the track but give a little harsher ride. My only concern is that poly bushes transmit more and more force to the subframe and chassis mounts and they are prone to failure.

Not in our experience, all the race cars have them, we've fiited literally hundred and not had one failure of any kind.

[Bealo]

sounds like youve got quite a list to do this winter Bealo:thumbs:. If you need someone to help sort it why you are away let me know.:thumbs:

List isn't that big big man... front and rear bushes, adjustable rear camber arms, corner weighting and camber adjustments....

I think i will leave the graft to the pro's thank you all the same :whistle:

[shimmy]

List isn't that big big man... front and rear bushes, adjustable rear camber arms, corner weighting and camber adjustments....

I think i will leave the graft to the pro's thank you all the same :whistle:

what about wrap, oil cooler, driver tuition :whistle:

[Bealo]

what about wrap, oil cooler, driver tuition :whistle:

Oh yeah lol, i forgot about those :whistle:

Driver tution will be next year now...

[AlexGTT]

Oh yeah lol, i forgot about those :whistle:

Driver tution will be next year now...

............Ring trip. :whistle:;)

[Bealo]

Is a no go i'm afraid Alex, work duty calls....

[glendog74]

Is a no go i'm afraid Alex, work duty calls....

:smt011 :smt011 :smt011

[Bealo]

Sorry Rob, i'll make it up to you with some decent pic's from my next trip to Thailand :thumbs:

[glendog74]

Sorry Rob, i'll make it up to you with some decent pic's from my next trip to Thailand :thumbs:

Well... ok i suppose. But they'd better be good ones! ;)

[alexk]

Sent a pm to John Thorney.
Maybe he can help to get my car sorted for the Ring.

[alexk]

Sent a pm to John Thorney.
Maybe he can help to get my car sorted for the Ring.

+1 to John
Many thanks ! I really appreciate your help.

[alexk]

Check this video ->
:banghead:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X9HhqLhxKc4

[AlexGTT]

Nice find Alex! Would be very interesting to see how the limiter kit behaves? :whistle: Thank you please!;)

[alexk]

So today I removed the OEM ones and put Powerflex.
The OEM were in terrible condition - which explains the strange behavior of the car.

I am amazed by the difference I see with the powerflex ones.

[_Nathan_]

No more powerflex bushes for a long while (no great loss IMO).

http://www.nissangtir.co.uk/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=30496

[TANKSLAPPER]

Nathan,What front wishbone bushes do you use?

I was looking at the Ground Control ones but they do two different types

cheers

[_Nathan_]

I've got the harsher of the ground control ones.

[alexk]

Hi Nathan,

Still happy with the GC front arm bushes ?

Has anyone used the Rogue engineering ones ?

[_Nathan_]

Haven't driven my car for well over a year, but last time I drove it the front end was excellent, not really sure that helps though!

[alexk]

Thanks Nathan :)

[alexk]

A difficult question.

I happen to have a set of these -> http://www.motorsport24.de/motorsport-teile/M3-E46/M3-E46-Fahrwerk-und-Achsteile/Querlenkerlager-Hinterachse-GTR-BMW-M3-E46-E46-Limo::1647.html

http://www.motorsport24.de/motorsport-teile/images/product_images/original_images/1647_0.jpg

These are the bushes from the M3 E46 GTR.
I am not sure what arm the GTR has.
It's not obvious to me how you can use them :banghead:
Does anyone have any info about the M3 GTR rear arms ?
Mr Gorilla maybe ?

I am considering to drive to Munich to crawl under the M3 GTR to see what the feck is going on with it's suspension.:smt083
I am sure they will think I am strange ;)

[northernjim]

A difficult question.

I happen to have a set of these -> http://www.motorsport24.de/motorsport-teile/M3-E46/M3-E46-Fahrwerk-und-Achsteile/Querlenkerlager-Hinterachse-GTR-BMW-M3-E46-E46-Limo::1647.html




I think that they could be replacements for part no. 33326775551

upper and lower ball joint on the trailing arm?

http://i453.photobucket.com/albums/qq253/ilikethealps/susp_m3_reartrailing_bush_lg.jpg

[Equinox]

Depending on the size of them they look like a trailing arm bush kit to me

[alexk]

Yes they are rear trailing arm bushes.

Jim, the ball joints you displayed are unibal.

[daniel]

Swing by TEC O FS Racing with your car and those parts. Sure Fabian will point it out pretty quickly.

[alexk]

Swing by TEC O FS Racing with your car and those parts. Sure Fabian will point it out pretty quickly.

I am afraid I lost you.
Can you please be more specific ?

[daniel]

I am afraid I lost you.
Can you please be more specific ?

Fabian @ TEC O FS Racing in Zurich knows BMWs/M3 inside out. Sure he could help with where to fit them etc.

[alexk]

Thanks ! Will check it out !

[pinkmpower]

So, I got the rest of the parts.
They are solid/uniball.

But there is something strange, they are very thin.
Why is that ? Any ideas ?

815
816
817
818
819


bump for an old thread.

Which of these parts is a motorsport replacement for the ball joints?

[alexk]

bump for an old thread.

Which of these parts is a motorsport replacement for the ball joints?

Hi, none of them.