Opinions please!!!

[shane@mbtech]

Guys an gals, im thinking of buying a csl,

Im torn between keeping my evo, (esp after reading comparison on this site on other post).

I will be putting ap's and kw if i do buy, but will i be making the right decision,

There is one particular csl which is drawing my attention, anyone know it as dont want to waste a journey from liverpool to london to view a dog, as i viewed a dog recently and was not impressed, it was described as mint:banghead:

any info on this car would be great, :thumbs:

http://www.pistonheads.com/sales/968144.htm

[dave1]

the csl is far more involving and rewarding to drive and easier to live with
i have had 6 or 7 evo's i love them before the csl i could not find anything to compare.

the only small fly in the ointment is the money i think the main reason some people have gone evo to csl then back to evo is because given the current climate evo's are totally amazing value for money there was an ix fq340 on ebay this week for £14k and a ix gt on the mlr for the same whereas csl's are holding there value, i might have to do the same as im buying a property at the mo

just my opion of course:thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

Seems a very good price with the F/B APs and mileage in the best colour choice :whistle: Just checked 3 previous owners too. It looks a blinder! :thumbs:


not yours by any chance ha ha,

[karbonkid]

Seems a very good price with the F/B APs, low mileage & in the best colour choice :whistle: Just checked 3 previous owners too. It looks a blinder! :thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

the csl is far more involving and rewarding to drive and easier to live with
i have had 6 or 7 evo's i love them before the csl i could not find anything to compare.

the only small fly in the ointment is the money i think the main reason some people have gone evo to csl then back to evo is because given the current climate evo's are totally amazing value for money there was an ix fq340 on ebay this week for £14k and a ix gt on the mlr for the same whereas csl's are holding there value, i might have to do the same as im buying a property at the mo

just my opion of course:thumbs:


Its not the financial side its the speed side, dont really want to be slower in the csl, my evo is 450bhp, i understand totally different driving styles etc etc from evo to csl,

Im just not sure, its really doing my head in at the moment,:banghead::banghead:

[karbonkid]

:hahaha: Looks similar & might even make an offer as a run around to keep the mileage down on mine as coming up to 30k. :banghead: A great investment thou. I rate them in a different league to an Evo. Perhaps because I havent been there, but have added class..

[Steve Gill]

lawsy - don't base your decision on my data logger post comparing the two. That was for fun - for one thing it was on different days so the track conditions were different (although both dry). The other is that its mostly down to driver as well - if you were basing a decision purely on what I'd posted then you'd have to come to the following conclusions:

1. The Evo is faster in a straight line (more bhp and torque)
2. The CSL on 888s corners as well as, sometimes better/faster than the Evo on Slicks, therefore the CSL must corner much better than an Evo if it was on slicks as well
3. The CSL allows you to brake later than the Evo
4. The Evo has a higher corner entry speed but the CSL has caught up mid corner.

All of which is bollocks - the only thing in the list above that you can compare is the fact that the Evo is clearly faster in a straight line. The rest is down to differences in the driver and driving style. If my data logs were the same (professional) driver who was experienced in both cars and was driving both logs on the same day, then yes you could compare them. Unfortunately neither the Evo driver nor I are pros, well perhaps drinking pros :hahaha:

They are both great cars and I imagine you will have fun with either - obviously I'm biased to the CSL as I love RWD, but as ever the choice is yours! :thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

:hahaha: Looks similar & might even make an offer as a run around to keep the mileage down on mine as coming up to 30k. :banghead: A great investment thou. I rate them in a different league to an Evo. Perhaps because I havent been there, but have added class..

I know what you mean about differences between the 2,, but class knows no boundaries, the evo is serious tool, easier to drive than the csl on the limit but still a very good car, and extremely fast.

I may call him about the csl, with possibility of a viewing, but im still in 2 minds, my evo gearbox will be sorted this week and i may love it once again, but for over a year now the csl has been calling me, and continues to do so:banghead:

[shane@mbtech]

:smokin:lawsy - don't base your decision on my data logger post comparing the two. That was for fun - for one thing it was on different days so the track conditions were different (although both dry). The other is that its mostly down to driver as well - if you were basing a decision purely on what I'd posted then you'd have to come to the following conclusions:

1. The Evo is faster in a straight line (more bhp and torque)
2. The CSL on 888s corners as well as, sometimes better/faster than the Evo on Slicks, therefore the CSL must corner much better than an Evo if it was on slicks as well
3. The CSL allows you to brake later than the Evo
4. The Evo has a higher corner entry speed but the CSL has caught up mid corner.

All of which is bollocks - the only thing in the list above that you can compare is the fact that the Evo is clearly faster in a straight line. The rest is down to differences in the driver and driving style. If my data logs were the same (professional) driver who was experienced in both cars and was driving both logs on the same day, then yes you could compare them. Unfortunately neither the Evo driver nor I are pros, well perhaps drinking pros :hahaha:

They are both great cars and I imagine you will have fun with either - obviously I'm biased to the CSL as I love RWD, but as ever the choice is yours! :thumbs:


Im not basing my decision solely on your post, its just one of many inputs, lots pro evo, lots pro csl.

I too love rwd, having had many high powered mercedes amg kompressors, lots of high speed sideways action:smokin: just not too hot at handling in a csl way.

Im just in 2 minds what to do, i suppose i really need to drive a csl on a long term test drive, but thats hard to do,
Maybe i could keep the evo as well, hmm decisions :banghead::banghead:

[the bear]

Hi guys,

I also have been looking at this csl alot over the last few weeks, did anybody notice that the m3csl badge is on the wrong place on the boot lid, maybe the car has been rear ended, apart from that it looks good.

Cheers,

GARY.

[shimmy]

Hi guys,

I also have been looking at this csl alot over the last few weeks, did anybody notice that the m3csl badge is on the wrong place on the boot lid, maybe the car has been rear ended, apart from that it looks good.

Cheers,

GARY.

although common for the L to break off when cleaning so could just be replaced badly!

[the bear]

Im sorry but I do not agree, I dont have a csl yet but I do have a e30 m3 sport evo show car and if I broke part of the badge off, it would definitely be put back on the place it came off, if you broke the L off would you not know if the badge was to go above or below the line on the boot lid I know that I would put it above the line and im sure you would too. It put me right off that csl.

Cheers,

GARY.

[shane@mbtech]

Im sorry but I do not agree, I dont have a csl yet but I do have a e30 m3 sport evo show car and if I broke part of the badge off, it would definitely be put back on the place it came off, if you broke the L off would you not know if the badge was to go above or below the line on the boot lid I know that I would put it above the line and im sure you would too. It put me right off that csl.

Cheers,

GARY.

Me too, glad you pointed it out:thumbs:

[Andyk]

I always find the comparison between CSL and Evo an odd one....I never owned an Evo but driven many and I would say they are 2 very different cars to be honest. CSL is a far more involving car to drive where as I found the Evo was all about neck breaking acceleration. All depends what you want from a car to be honest..the CSL is def easier to live with everyday as I found the ride much better and it's a nicer place to be sat in, but a turbo car will always have that eye popping shove to scare your passengers.....not that the CSL doesn't impress....once you hear the induction roar you will never go back. Well I say that but a few have on here.

The CSL was made for the track...the Evo was made for the rally....2 very different cars I would say.

You will only know if a CSL is for you once you have driven one....get yourself out there and have a go.:thumbs:

[glendog74]

Agree with Andyk, the Evo and CSL are two cars with two very different design principles and characters.

I only ever owned one Evo - a mildly tuned VI TME and it really was a fun car to drive and to drive rather fast scaring any passenger that dared to sit next to me! The 4WD really inspired confidence in the car and it's abilities (especially in the wet) - maybe too much at times! I think that i simply tired of it after a while as there were too many compromises to ownership and my wallet was always rather empty! Without wishing to sound snobby, I think i just 'grew out' of it and wanted something without the 'turbo nutter' image! My only one regret was never tracking the car but i do not for one minute wish to go back :blalalala:

The CSL on the other hand is a different kettle of fish altogether! I wont bore you with everything that is great about it but it really is superb as an everyday car and if used properly on track - a simply awesome car! I would only really consider a 997 GT3 as a replacement, and that would take some serious money to afford - for minimal performance gain on track...

Yes, the Evo may be faster in a straight line and give that 'turbo buzz' but its not a patch on that special feeling of ownership satisfaction and exclusivity that the CSL gives you. Just my opinion... :whistle:

[dave1]

depends what you want to do i guess i you drive up runways all day stick with evo if not enjoy the csl

csl is quicker round the ring and top gear track which is a better comparison on twisty roads

[DazBlackCSL]

Agree with Andyk, the Evo and CSL are two cars with two very different design principles and characters.

I only ever owned one Evo - a mildly tuned VI TME and it really was a fun car to drive and to drive rather fast scaring any passenger that dared to sit next to me! The 4WD really inspired confidence in the car and it's abilities (especially in the wet) - maybe too much at times! I think that i simply tired of it after a while as there were too many compromises to ownership and my wallet was always rather empty! Without wishing to sound snobby, I think i just 'grew out' of it and wanted something without the 'turbo nutter' image! My only one regret was never tracking the car but i do not for one minute wish to go back :blalalala:

The CSL on the other hand is a different kettle of fish altogether! I wont bore you with everything that is great about it but it really is superb as an everyday car and if used properly on track - a simply awesome car! I would only really consider a 997 GT3 as a replacement, and that would take some serious money to afford - for minimal performance gain on track...

Yes, the Evo may be faster in a straight line and give that 'turbo buzz' but its not a patch on that special feeling of ownership satisfaction and exclusivity that the CSL gives you. Just my opinion... :whistle:


Beautifully put :smt055

and totally agree , my only car on radar is GT3 ... but just too much for me currently ..poss when the CSL is paid off tho :whistle:

[glendog74]

Beautifully put :smt055

and totally agree

:smt052 :smt008 :smt058 :smt047

[Jaw_F430]

Also one thing to consider which a lot of people forget is that you are comparing a modified evo against a stock CSL. You start fitting a S/C to your CSL and the straight line speed will be there (I wouldn't do this though as you lose that lovely carbon intake:smt055).

[englebert]

I know even with the mods the Evo is probably cheaper but i agree, a bit unfair to compare a very modified car to a stock one.

A couple of guys at work have Evos, i respect them greatly but i don't think i could deal with the stigma. Owning a BMW is worse enough!

[rstoughy]

Had both and tracked both.

The Evo was great and To be perfectly honest had it not been written off when it was i might still have had it.

However as the money was there on offer i took it and bought my 22B as a quick money earner which it done and allowed me to purchase my CSL.

What the guys have said is so true. You just cant compare them fairly, they were built for two totally different reasons. The CSL does seem so much more at home on a track and thats the reason i have gone for one. It's what it was designed for.

Hard choice i'm affraid so good luck.

P.S. there's also the noise of the CSL in its favour :drool: :drool:

[shane@mbtech]

I have taken everyones views on board.
But my tuned evo is my car now and im considering a csl, so the comparison for me is fair, and right.

Yes i know it is modified, but put brakes and kws on the csl and that too is modified.

I understand the driving style is totally different, and unique to each car, and i know i would enjoy the csl more to drive. :smt109

But, ive seen very good drivers in csl's against 400bhp evo and they cant keep up, be it straights or corners,

Evo's are not only quick in straight lines, my car has fully adjustable suspension and big brakes as well as 450bhp, so is very fast through the corners, and tbh at the last trackday at donny i attended, the csl which was there, did not impress me with both corner spd or anything else, ill admit i have seen csl's travel faster, (maybe he was a track virgin), but it seemed painfully slow tbh. saying that so did a lot of the so called fast evo's which were also there!!

I am leaning towards a csl and i will buy one, and after driving a few i know its the car for me. i know i will prefer it to an evo as a drivers car... BUT i know i will be gutted if the csl is slower around the track, esp oulton park, which i love.

I dont want to regret buying one,

I really need to go out on track in one see how it does on track, no one on here doing oulton park and fancy giving me a passenger lap in the near future:whistle:

How fast does a csl in average hands lap oulton on full circuit, no guesses, just facts please.

Thank you everyone for your inputs, greatly appreciated.

I WILL OWN THE CSL, IT WILL BE SOON. JUST NEED THAT FINAL PUSH INTO CSL OWNERSHIP......:smt055

[E46ACS]

Getting back to the advert, yes the badge is in the wrong place, and was probably removed (as some are) and put back by a different owner (/idiot!) in the wrong place.

However, the owner has put no effort at all in the advert to selling the car, half dozen lines creating a brief description. Sounds a bit dodgy to me. Anyone actually viewed the car? 'Cos it would appear to b a good buy.....

[shane@mbtech]

Getting back to the advert, yes the badge is in the wrong place, and was probably removed (as some are) and put back by a different owner (/idiot!) in the wrong place.

However, the owner has put no effort at all in the advert to selling the car, half dozen lines creating a brief description. Sounds a bit dodgy to me. Anyone actually viewed the car? 'Cos it would appear to b a good buy.....


It does appear to be a good buy, but as you state, Im a keen enthusiast, and when i sell my car ( usually owned because i am an enthusiast) i make an effort with advert,

He looks like he posted that with a piece of toast in mouth, drinking coffee and late for work.

Im also interested to see if anyone has viewed it,

but tbh, i have no feeling for that car, and i buy on instinct, never failed me so far ( fingers crossed)

[NZ_M3]

I am going to go against the tide and say stick with the EVO.

If you are into modifying the crap out of a car and simply want to go fast around a track then stick with the EVO - it'll be cheaper and more rewarding (as in the gains you'll get per dollar)

CSLs aren't exactly cheap to mod - and by the time you are done with suspension, brakes, exhaust and an ecu tune you've pretty much exhausted all the simple modification options. Short of changing the final drive, cams and another tune - that's about all you can do with it in NA form (bar buying a motorsport S54 and engine swap - or go down the forced induction route - neither of which are cheap options). The only other worth while modification I can see with the CSL is weight loss and a proper sequential box from Drenth ... but that's about it.

It's really no comparison between a stock standard (or near stock standard) CSL and highly modified cars - you simply can't compare as many have said.

Heck I've been in modified Honda civics that are faster than the CSL around the track and I can personally say that a highly modified Honda will give you bigger grins than a stock standard CSL will ever provide - NOISE INCLUDED - Vtec on song is about as addictive as the CSL roar (I've either owned, driven or rode in highly modified Hondas, so don't knock me on this one please!!)- no bull (K24 block bored out to 2.7 liters and a K20A head, a 5.1 final drive in an eg civic body will run laps around a CSL easily - with decent suspension and brakes of course and a very spartan interior).

[Nords]

I am going to go against the tide and say stick with the EVO.

If you are into modifying the crap out of a car and simply want to go fast around a track then stick with the EVO - it'll be cheaper and more rewarding (as in the gains you'll get per dollar)

CSLs aren't exactly cheap to mod - and by the time you are done with suspension, brakes, exhaust and an ecu tune you've pretty much exhausted all the simple modification options. Short of changing the final drive, cams and another tune - that's about all you can do with it in NA form (bar buying a motorsport S54 and engine swap - or go down the forced induction route - neither of which are cheap options). The only other worth while modification I can see with the CSL is weight loss and a proper sequential box from Drenth ... but that's about it.

It's really no comparison between a stock standard (or near stock standard) CSL and highly modified cars - you simply can't compare as many have said.

Heck I've been in modified Honda civics that are faster than the CSL around the track and I can personally say that a highly modified Honda will give you bigger grins than a stock standard CSL will ever provide - NOISE INCLUDED - Vtec on song is about as addictive as the CSL roar (I've either owned, driven or rode in highly modified Hondas, so don't knock me on this one please!!)- no bull (K24 block bored out to 2.7 liters and a K20A head, a 5.1 final drive in an eg civic body will run laps around a CSL easily - with decent suspension and brakes of course and a very spartan interior).

I agree that you can't compare, the above could continue with me saying I have driven radical SR8 that have run rings around your highly modified civic (I haven't but they would do)...

I think you have to look at a price point to even things up, £25-30K for a CSL which if you choose careful will get you an excellent CSL with APs/Alcons and then budget £1500 for a set of track rims with cups and you have a faster than most people's ability everyday (if reqd) and track car. It will be cheaper to maintain and service (no further mods to buy) than any tuned thing especially EVOs. I know someone who had a 550 bhp EVO with slicks, race geo, the lot and it could overtake caterhams around the outside of the old Gerards at Malory....

It did have alot smoke coming into the passenger area, eat a set of slicks in a day and is believed to have cost him some thing like £120-140K to get to that point. He sold it and bought a CSL to get a more 'pure' rwd experience rather than just go faster.

[csl_mba]

My 2p worth

Not owned an EVO (my bro has an FQ300) but have had a scooby and to all intense and purposes are very similar, the EVO did seem a little quicker though.

I choose my cars first and foremost on "are they are drivers car", next i look at "whats rare", i like being different, yes there are 400+ CSL's but you dont see many and thats what i like :)

I got into the tuning scene with the scoob and tbh its dead money, yes you have a car worthory of breaking land speed records, but its still one of thousands other like it.

I suppose i am a bit of a poser, but the looks i got from the people driving the scoob were different to the folk who look at the CSL - they know the CSL is special :supz:

[Mark CSL]

lawsy
If you want to go fast round a track keep the EVO.
I dont think the CSL will be what you are after, they are quick and i should know! I do a lot of trackdays and the evos are just a bit quicker out the corners, than the csl but on the brakes and in the tight bits i am all over them :thumbs:
The only thing i would say is i can go on track and do lap after lap you wont do this all day in an EVO

Time and Time again and only need tyres :hahaha:

[glendog74]

The only thing i would say is i can go on track and do lap after lap you wont do this all day in an EVO

Time and Time again and only need tyres :hahaha:

...and that's one of the great things about the CSL with minimal mods:

1. Drive to the track day
2. Roast it lap after lap at said track day (with decent brakes ;)...)
3. Drive home again

It always makes me chuckle at track days when i see Evo owners with their full tool kit, spare tyres, oil, fuel jerry cans, spare turbo, kitcken sink, etc, packed into their car! :hahaha:

I agree with NZ_M3 to some extent as the CSL takes some amount of money to mod for minimal speed gains, but i don't think the Evo would be cheaper in the long run as they are certainly more expensive to run hard and the tuned ones tend to be a tad fragile at the best of times...!

If i wanted to go mega quickly around a track for (relatively) little money i would probably get a modded Caterham of some sort. Of course then i couldn't drive home in comfort... :whistle:

[Jaw_F430]

A little off topic but can you post a couple of pics of your EVO or a link?:thumbs:

[shane@mbtech]

Heres a few, its about 450bhp, 440lbft

drenth dogbox with sequential shifter.

6 pots front and rear

coilovers with electronic damping control in car.
Its no slouch, thats for sure:thumbs:

146

147

148

149

[csl_mba]

Looks quick as fook, but how long will it last?? Looks like a time bomb ready to go off.

If you want something very fast get an evo, it you want to be stylish and fast get a csl :)

[shane@mbtech]

Looks quick as fook, but how long will it last?? Looks like a time bomb ready to go off.

If you want something very fast get an evo, it you want to be stylish and fast get a csl :)


Its not an everyday car, and its only a forged 2.0l so hopefully will be reliable as fook,

but hopefully i wont have to worry about that if i get myself a csl,

How reliable are the csl's, hearing a few stories about gearbox problems around 3 rd gear ??

[Jaw_F430]

Get one with warranty and don't worry!!!!:thumbs::hahaha:



Funny I have not seen your EVO around as I live in Rainhill so not too far away from you.


Looks very nice:supz:

[shane@mbtech]

Get one with warranty and don't worry!!!!:thumbs::hahaha:



Funny I have not seen your EVO around as I live in Rainhill so not too far away from you.


Looks very nice:supz:

Dont drive it that often, mainly on track days, weekend blasts etc, at the moment im getting a proshift system fitted, with push buttin gearchange on steering wheel so hopefully ill be out playing soon;)

Only ever seen one csl round my ways, that was one of our customers, husbands car. they all seem to be down south or in sunny scotland:thumbs:

My garage is not too far from you, i have a mercedes specialist garage in warrington, its a pity the mercs chassis are not as good as bmw's as some of the merc engines are peaches,

[Jaw_F430]

Dont drive it that often, mainly on track days, weekend blasts etc, at the moment im getting a proshift system fitted, with push buttin gearchange on steering wheel so hopefully ill be out playing soon;)

Only ever seen one csl round my ways, that was one of our customers, husbands car. they all seem to be down south or in sunny scotland:thumbs:

My garage is not too far from you, i have a mercedes specialist garage in warrington, its a pity the mercs chassis are not as good as bmw's as some of the merc engines are peaches,

They do all seem to be down south. I have seen one around here which was at Car Planet last Sunday when I went for a look around. MB tech?

[Jeff]

I obviously don't know you from a bar of soap but looking at the car and all you've done to it, I'm just not sure a CSL will provide the adrenalin you're chasing. That's not to say that a CSL is for retiree's but that they are lower powered than your car, and really, not the sort of car that you mod endlessly unless you are prepared to have a car that's impossible to sell. They're a little like GT3's - the majority of people want them standard and mostly unadulterated.

That said, you will still enjoy the car, but in a different way than the Evo.

[shane@mbtech]

They do all seem to be down south. I have seen one around here which was at Car Planet last Sunday when I went for a look around. MB tech?


Thats us, do we know you?

Yeh seen that one myself, he's put the yellow bm calipers on it, looks cool, max was trying to get him to tune it ha

[Jaw_F430]

No I have never been but funny enough today someone mentioned your place to my cousin, he has an annoying seat belt warning sound on his ML270CDI.


I want the brakes he has. The guy at Car Planet said the fronts are Lamborghini Gallardo brakes and 911 turbo on the rear but they say BMW motorsport on them

[shane@mbtech]

No I have never been but funny enough today someone mentioned your place to my cousin, he has an annoying seat belt warning sound on his ML270CDI.


I want the brakes he has. The guy at Car Planet said the fronts are Lamborghini Gallardo brakes and 911 turbo on the rear but they say BMW motorsport on them


i think we can remove that noise, alternatively get a seat belt buckle from a scrappy and plug it in, hey presto, cheap fix,

I did not see the fronts tbh as i was inside and only seen the car as he was leaving, but the rears looked like the bmw motorsport calipers in yellow that are available, ill find out what calipers they are as im threre tomorrow

[Jaw_F430]

i think we can remove that noise, alternatively get a seat belt buckle from a scrappy and plug it in, hey presto, cheap fix,

I did not see the fronts tbh as i was inside and only seen the car as he was leaving, but the rears looked like the bmw motorsport calipers in yellow that are available, ill find out what calipers they are as im threre tomorrow


I thought they were CSL cups brakes at first:smt055


Do you charge to just plug in and see what is wrong? Or do you just charge to fix it?

[shane@mbtech]

I thought they were CSL cups brakes at first:smt055


Do you charge to just plug in and see what is wrong? Or do you just charge to fix it?


It depends mate, if someone just wants to know whats wrong we charge, if they get it fixed, we tend to not charge for just putting the computer on the car,

But the computer does not always show a fault, we may need to check wiring etc, get him to give us a call tomorrow, 01925 653 050, and you could come and show me your csl:smt055

[Jaw_F430]

It depends mate, if someone just wants to know whats wrong we charge, if they get it fixed, we tend to not charge for just putting the computer on the car,

But the computer does not always show a fault, we may need to check wiring etc, get him to give us a call tomorrow, 01925 653 050, and you could come and show me your csl:smt055


I will speak to him tomorrow and give him your number:thumbs:

[E46ACS]

I obviously don't know you from a bar of soap

Class, pure class!!!! :hahaha:

[NZ_M3]

I agree that you can't compare, the above could continue with me saying I have driven radical SR8 that have run rings around your highly modified civic (I haven't but they would do)...


Hey... hardly fair comparing a tin top shopping trolley with an oversized go-kart !!

But after seeing what you've done to the EVO, I really think you should keep it rather than go to a CSL - my feelings are you'll be disappointed (not because the CSL is no good - it's a blast around the track and will keep up with the best of the best) - but it's just a different sort of a beast compared to a modified EVO (which given by the sort of mods you've done, I'd say you are more into that scene rather than the poser crowd that's the CSL owners club :whistle::blalalala:)

[Andyk]

standard :thumbs:




No matter what power you put in the EVO the CSL will still feel a more focused and involving car even if the EVO is faster....just because it's faster doesn't make it more fun...as I said before get out a drive one

[Jeff]

Class, pure class!!!! :hahaha:

It's the Aussie in me coming out :clown:

[dave1]

But after seeing what you've done to the EVO, I really think you should keep it rather than go to a CSL - my feelings are you'll be disappointed (not because the CSL is no good - it's a blast around the track and will keep up with the best of the best) - but it's just a different sort of a beast compared to a modified EVO (which given by the sort of mods you've done, I'd say you are more into that scene rather than the poser crowd that's the CSL owners club :whistle::blalalala:)[/quote]

dont know what you mean:whistle:

[E46ACS]

I can see a repeat of that photo coming up this Sunday, and then again on Monday!!! :thumbs: