CSL bodyshell stress crack - warning!

[Steve Gill]

Hi Folks

At the end of last season at the ring, the mechanic I use at the ring (Tom Schirmer) noticed a small stress crack on the bodyshell, right beside the front subframe mount. He told me he's only seen it a few times before, and he's seen quite a few CSLs that get worked hard. We didn't have time to fix it then (I was returning home) but it needs fixed before any more track work he reckoned.

Anyway, we finally got the car on the ramps today (back in Scotland) and took off the whole rear axle:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/IMG_0301.jpg

And after cleaning off the grime we could see the crack had got worse.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/IMG_0297-1.jpg

Luckily we've caught it in time though, we're welding the crack and then going to weld 4 plates on each subframe mount, that should stop it happening again.

My car gets a reasonable work out, but also I have fitted solid subframe mounts from Turner Motorsport (http://www.turnermotorsport.com/html/detail.asp?PRODUCT_ID=TDR4680014) about 2 years ago which obviously contributed to the stress crack on the bodyframe.

I thought I'd post this thread as a warning to anyone who's car gets some serious track work, and/or anyone who's upgraded their subframe mounts. Check for stress cracks regularly!

[SMD]

Cheers for the heads up mate!:beer:

Are you runing coilovers on the rear, is that the reason for this?

[Steve Gill]

Are you runing coilovers on the rear, is that the reason for this?
Yes, AST coilovers on the rear. But I'm also have a cage helping to stiffen the whole car, and I thought the problem with coilovers at the rear was the top mount cracking? I could be wrong. Anyway my coilovers have a reinforced top plate and it appears fine. I think it more likely the problem was caused by subframe has no give now its solid bushes? However I mention it here in case its a wider problem about to rear its head as these cars (and std e46 M3s) get older and more widely tracked.

[NZ_M3]

Oh oh ... this would be the first reported CSL with the infamous re-subframe mount crack/tear on the E46 Chassis ...

It's quite chronic with the normal E46 M3s (just do a search on American E46 M3 forums and you'd get hundreds of threads about it) ... but this is the first that I've seen one on a CSL .. .this is not good.

[Bealo]

This is the good thing about the forum, we will all learn together when we pass our findings on to eachother.

Thanks Steve. :thumbs:

[sailorbaz]

Cheers for the heads up Stevie. And here's me worrying about poxy bumper repairs, your cars cracking up! ;-)

All sorted now, still on the hunt for a corner piece but no rush.

[RichW]

Thanks for the heads up Steve - hope you get it sorted, will be keeping an on mine in the future, even though i've yet to track it :smt090

[glendog74]

That's not good! I've seen a few cars pass through Simpson MS that have those solid billet bushes and they are certainly a tad more extreme than poly bushes are over the OEM rubber versions! :119:

It's not something i would consider as my car is also used loads on the road and surely that must make it ride hard? I'm not gonna worry about cracks on mine just yet but will keep a weather eye on that area - cheers...! :whistle:

[bryce]

Oh oh ... this would be the first reported CSL with the infamous re-subframe mount crack/tear on the E46 Chassis ...

It's quite chronic with the normal E46 M3s (just do a search on American E46 M3 forums and you'd get hundreds of threads about it) ... but this is the first that I've seen one on a CSL .. .this is not good.

Was just gonna point that out. Loads of e46's doing it on the Yank forums. Seems to be a common problem :banghead:

Heard of one getting his subframe replaced under good will. Was a 7yo car with lots of miles too.

[NZ_M3]

Was just gonna point that out. Loads of e46's doing it on the Yank forums. Seems to be a common problem :banghead:

Heard of one getting his subframe replaced under good will. Was a 7yo car with lots of miles too.

It happens a lot more to earlier cars - but according to the yanks there isn't really a trend or 'real reason' behind it other than under-design by BMW.

In 2005 the E46 rear subframe mount floor had an updated part number that was suppose combat this - to date there have still been cars from that era showing signs of cracks.

BMW did bring out a TIS bulletin of an injection foam to fix initial stress cracks like the one on Steve's car - I have the pdf file for it - but supposedly this is no longer available as a 'fix'


To date (until Steve posted this up) there have been no reported cases of CSLs doing this. I was hoping that it never would as I was hoping that weight would have something to do with this 'defect' (CSLs being light and all, and whilst it's a torque induced issue ... having a heavier car exacerbates such problems)

It is a torque induced stress in the body, which leads to mounting point cracks.

I've spoken to a learned BMW technician here locally and he's of the opinion that so long as you don't abuse the car and drive on perished bushes (on the rear end) then the likelihood of these stress cracks appearing will be considerably lowered.

I would suspect that the solid rear subframe mounts would have contributed to this some what.

Hopefully you get it sorted Steve - the Turners Rear subframe kit requires quite a bit of cutting in both the floor and boot to fit the kit ... there's been some merit put forward by the yanks that structural bonding (i.e. glue) might be the better alternative and prevent rust in the future (given that you can't rust proof the otherside of the metal that's been welded.

[Steve Gill]

An update, with pictures :thumbs:

1. image one shows the crack and the weak spot weld welded up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/c5l001.jpg

2. shows the reinforceing plate in position ready to weld.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/c5l002.jpg

3. shows the plate seam and plug welded into position.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/c5l003.jpg

4. shows the welds ground down ready for etching primer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/c5l004.jpg

5. o/s rear mount.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/c5l005.jpg

6. n/s rear mount.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/c5l006.jpg

7. a coat of underbody colour on top of etch primer.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/c5l007.jpg

8. o/s rear all painted up.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/c5l008.jpg

[SMD]

Looks a good fix steve!:thumbs:

[Mark CSL]

Good job Steve that should sort it
Ready for the Csl ring LOL

[bryce]

Thanks for that Richie :beer:

Looks a similar fix to what many of the american lads are doing. I remember one not so long ago getting fixed - the lads there made it look oem. Reason for his cracking though cos he had around 650 whp :drool:

[Nords]

Did 'you' just weld up the one side, or do both as the same time?

[Steve Gill]

Did 'you' just weld up the one side, or do both as the same time?
What do you mean Nords, I don't understand?

[Nords]

I know the crack was only on one side, but by strengthening one side only, would it put more pressure on the 'same spot' on the other side? I wondered if not put a strengthening plate on both sides of the car (not one 'below' and one 'above'). Does that make sense?

Edited to say: Like this?
http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj49/GSXRthou/CSL/IMG_0301.jpg

[_Nathan_]

I think the crack is on the car, not the subframe and the photos are captioned as N/S and O/S so I assume both sides have been addressed :)

[NZ_M3]

Did 'you' just weld up the one side, or do both as the same time?


Some of the guys in the US cut open the boot floor (as recommended by Turners repair instruction) - which then allows you access to the "otherside" of the subframe floor mount plate and weld up the other side and do further rust proofing.

They only do this to the most extreme cases of subframe floor mount tear though.

For those interested in the structural foam method the defect number on the TIS is 41 11 91 01 00
TIS 41 03 03 (025)

[Nords]

I think the crack is on the car, not the subframe and the photos are captioned as N/S and O/S so I assume both sides have been addressed :)

Ahhhhh, spot on!

[Steve Gill]

I know the crack was only on one side, but by strengthening one side only, would it put more pressure on the 'same spot' on the other side? I wondered if not put a strengthening plate on both sides of the car (not one 'below' and one 'above'). Does that make sense?

The crack is on the bodyshell where the subframe attaches. This revised diagram probably explains it better:

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v226/sgill22/Sub%20Mount%20Crack/IMG_0301text.jpg

All 4 points where the subframe attaches have now got new welded plates, to be safe.

[Steve Gill]

Some of the guys in the US cut open the boot floor (as recommended by Turners repair instruction) - which then allows you access to the "otherside" of the subframe floor mount plate and weld up the other side and do further rust proofing.

They only do this to the most extreme cases of subframe floor mount tear though.

For those interested in the structural foam method the defect number on the TIS is 41 11 91 01 00
TIS 41 03 03 (025)
I had noticed Turner were recommending that, I'll ask the garage their thoughts, however I think its as you say - for the most extreme cases where there is an actual tear rip.

[shimmy]

Bump

Just interesting reading Steves old thread back after 3 years:thumbs:

[uncle benz]

Hate to admit it, but I've a little crack appearing on mine. About 10mm in length at the moment, and right on the corner where the horizontal goes into the vertical. Planning to keep an eye on it this season and repair it in the winter provided it doesn't gallop away. I've got a few dates in the diary, and don't want to pull it apart yet. I could always use the mx5 if it came to it, but Spa won't be much fun with 130bhp...

[shimmy]

Hate to admit it, but I've a little crack appearing on mine. About 10mm in length at the moment, and right on the corner where the horizontal goes into the vertical. Planning to keep an eye on it this season and repair it in the winter provided it doesn't gallop away. I've got a few dates in the diary, and don't want to pull it apart yet. I could always use the mx5 if it came to it, but Spa won't be much fun with 130bhp...

Are you doing MLR day on the 28/5?

[uncle benz]

No, I'm there in October with circuit days. I've been invited to the destination nurburgring the day before too, but family commitments mean that's on hold for the moment.