Suspension adjustment - bump/rebound

[bryce]

I fitted KW V3s to my car round christmas last year, but Ive only just started to use the car properly again.

I set the bump and rebound to KW's reccommended spec, which I found superb to start with, but the more Ive used the car, the more I found it was a bit hard and didnt soak up bumps.

Since then Ive adjusted everything to basically the softest setting on both bump and rebound. The ride is now perfect comfort wise, but the car now doesnt seem as stable - particularly at higher speeds. Ive noticed when over taking and pulling back in, the car seems to float quite a bit. I have a basic understanding of how the susp works, and I believe this is caused by me now running more on the springs, and apposed to the dampers/ shockers.

Is it possible to keep the softness of my current settings, but bring back that planted / stable feel I had before. Or is it a case of compromising one to improve t'other.

Cheers :thumbs:

ps. Ive found this guide quite useful... http://www.koni-na.com/pdfcatalogs/KONIMotosportCatalog.pdf

[Nords]

I'm on Intrax and on the road I put all the settings to max softness and it seems fine. Not helpful I know, but email Thorney perhaps? He knows a fair bit about KWs.

[SpineOnABap]

My own view is it's a science and best left to someone who really knows what they're doing.

[glendog74]

My own view is it's a science and best left to someone who really knows what they're doing.

Agreed! Either that or revert to your previous harder settings and stop being a puff! Or fit a squidgy cushion under your butt... :gayfight::hahaha:

[CATDT]

Bryce

Colin says you're welcome to give him a call (01234 757633) as the quickest answer for you. He will penn a reply for all to read but it will be about a page long. He's out this evening and we have a corporate event tomorrow, so the earliest for his view here will be tomorrow evening.

Jo

[Mark CSL]

Agreed! Either that or revert to your previous harder settings and stop being a puff! Or fit a squidgy cushion under your butt... :gayfight::hahaha:
:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[shimmy]

I'm on Intrax and on the road I put all the settings to max softness and it seems fine. Not helpful I know, but email Thorney perhaps? He knows a fair bit about KWs.

jeez thats soft Nords :whistle:

standard CSL suspension is about -20F -25R and is better than stock on Intrax i have found

[Nords]

Yep, I'm on -40 back and front? I might try those settings, what ride height?

[_Nathan_]

Nords - you have 50 clicks on the rear if your dampers are the same as mine.

Make sure you have the same spring rates before you start comparing damping clicks ;)

[Nords]

How do I check that?

Mine are like these (Shimmys), except they have red bodys, rather than grey/beige or whatever it is...

http://i401.photobucket.com/albums/pp97/shimmylasco/CSL/intrax2.jpg

[_Nathan_]

Would assume the springs have the rates written on them, you can use quite a different range with 1k2 as there is so much adjustment in them.

[Bealo]

I'm on KW V3 Clubsports and yes they are pretty hard on the road but i've gotten used to it.

I have had a play with the settings on the track but to be honest haven't got a clue as to what i'm doing LOL.

I intend to take the car to get the Geometry set up and a good basic track setting and road setting for the KW's then just switch between the 2 settings.

[bryce]

Bryce

Colin says you're welcome to give him a call (01234 757633) as the quickest answer for you. He will penn a reply for all to read but it will be about a page long. He's out this evening and we have a corporate event tomorrow, so the earliest for his view here will be tomorrow evening.

Jo

Cheers Jo, thats very good of Colin.

Ive sent Thorney an email to see what they'd advise first (bought KWs from them), but if I have no luck I'll give Colin a shout.

Looking forward to Colins write up regardless. :thumbs:

[Bealo]

bryce


Let me know what settings Thorney recommends i would be interested to see how far off i'm with mine. :thumbs:

[bryce]

bryce


Let me know what settings Thorney recommends i would be interested to see how far off i'm with mine. :thumbs:

No problem, will do :beer: Whats yours set at just now anyway?

[DazBlackCSL]

Will get my settings on Friday for you, if your interested and post up when im back as im there on friday ...

Exhaust will be on for drive home !!!!!!!!!!!:whistle::smokin:

[bryce]

That'd be spot on Daz, as you seem to use your car quite a bit for the road. Keep a note and fire them up here please :beer:

Oh, and I wanna see/hear a vid of this new zorst!

[DazBlackCSL]

That'd be spot on Daz, as you seem to use your car quite a bit for the road. Keep a note and fire them up here please :beer:

Oh, and I wanna see/hear a vid of this new zorst!

Na Worries my man :thumbs:

Will do .... all being well will do some cheeky vids and the obligatory pics over the weekend !!:whistle:;)

[CATDT]

Bryce - apologies for the delay but our event took it out of us yesterday :hahaha:

Here is Colin's written information for you - but as he says, a verbal conversation is easier, so if you would like to chat any aspect through he'll be very happy to do so. He will next be in the office on Thursday.

Jo
-----
The Variant 3 system is track focused and offers little adjustment of the ride comfort setting. If you look at the adjustments more commonly found on a race or track damper it will help to understand what is happening underneath you when the wheel is excited by the road or the vehicle negotiates a corner.

Race/ Track dampers commonly have up to 3 settings (Variant 3s have 2)

High Speed Bump
This adjustment controls how the wheel reacts when the wheel is accelerated quickly over large bumps and holes in the road or a kerb or rumble strip on a circuit. It is controlling the unsprung mass of the wheel and suspension. High speed is not referring to the speed of the car but the speed of the impact and deflection experienced by the suspension. If the owner sets this overly stiff for the driving conditions the tyre will not follow the road, and grip can be reduced considerably, especially in the wet. On your Variant 3s this has been pre set by the factory and is not adjustable.

Low Speed Bump
This is adjustable on the Variant 3 and offers subtle adjustment of the unsprung mass consequently this reduces, in a limited way, body roll - reducing roll rates as you brake corner and accelerate. This adjustment offers fine control, a vernier adjustment with smaller gains in body control than the rebound adjuster.

Rebound Adjustment
This is adjustable on the Variant 3s. Its main function is to control the body’s dynamic movement. Remember as the body rolls the suspension is deflected through its range of movement, a soft setting can have a negative effect on circuit and road. Exaggerated body roll can affect the tyres capability to remain perpendicular to the road, as larger camber changes will be experienced by the tyre.

In summary by backing off both adjusters you have reduced the bodies resistance to dynamic movement (Dive, Roll and Pitch), hence the floating feel when changing lanes. But you still have stiff track focused high speed pre set bump settings, so the wheel is finding it difficult to follow the road and cope with the additional body roll and subsequent camber change. I hope this all makes sense – it’s much easier to talk and demonstrate on circuit than explain in writing.

My recommendation would be to stiffen the settings and find a compromise, so the rebound and low speed bump give a more predictable feel to the vehicle and ride comfort is reduced but acceptable. When you have one adjustment on a performance damper you are invariably adjusting rebound adjustment, as manufacturers do not like to give you isolated high speed bump adjustment, as it can compromise safety if set to stiff.

[Nords]

Interesting, so is it just 'overall' damping that is adjusted on Intrax? What does 'THIS BIT HERE' do?

http://i269.photobucket.com/albums/jj49/GSXRthou/CSL/intrax2.jpg

[_Nathan_]

There is a fixed bump and rebound curve - that single adjuster simply moves both bump and rebound along that curve. You have to be a very good driver or have data logging on the dampers to get a benefit from the 4 way Intrax IMO (and also that of Intrax when I discused upgrading to 4 ways with then to see if I'd actually be able to make them work better than the 1K2s).

With a fixed curve at least you are limited to how rubbish you can make the setup!

[_Nathan_]

And don't mess around with the other bit.

[shimmy]

although the other bit (well around that bit anyway) is the camber adjustment plate as you already know!;)

[Bealo]

No problem, will do :beer: Whats yours set at just now anyway?

Thanks :thumbs:

Off the top of my head i can't remember, i've got it written down at home. But i remember that road settings are pretty soft.

[Bealo]

Will get my settings on Friday for you, if your interested and post up when im back as im there on friday ...

Exhaust will be on for drive home !!!!!!!!!!!:whistle::smokin:

Thanks Daz

Maybe we can get a thread/sticky going about users settings on different tracks for the different makes of coilovers.

That way we can all learn from each others experiences.:thumbs:

[bryce]

Jo,

Pass on my thanks to Colin, that write up is just spot on - gives me a complete understanding of what Im adjusting, and how it'll affect the car.

I'll have a fiddle with it this weekend and see how I get on. If Im having problems I'll give you lads a shout as you know your stuff. You open saturdays?

:beer:

[CATDT]

You open saturdays?
:beer:
I'll be around but Colin will be training. Give me a call if you need to and then he'll either return your call that evening or on Sunday.

Enjoy the fiddling!

Jo

[bryce]

Thank you :thumbs:

[bryce]

Well I had a fiddle with the settings last night, and took it a good spin today.

Ride is now perfect, its firm but not harsh. Follows contours alot better and reacts to bumps/ dips well. Higher speeds are good, but still not perfect - still got that floaty feel - which on road is acceptable.

Settings are as follows (from Full Hardest -turn towards softer)

FRONT
Bump - 1.5 full turns
Rebound - 2.0 full turns

REAR
Bump - 1.5 full turns
Rebound - 2.5 full turns (I thought this was just 2.0 ft's, but looking at my notes Ive got 2.5 written - I'll check sometime, if I aint had too many pies, its tight underneath!)

Daz & Bealo, get your settings fired up :thumbs:
Would be a good idea to have a 'KW settings' specific thread really for comparison.

[Nords]

jeez thats soft Nords :whistle:

standard CSL suspension is about -20F -25R and is better than stock on Intrax i have found

I'm running Intrax 1K2 suspension and I have been wizzing around on max softness but having found John suspension settings list, he recommends front 30 off max and rear 35 off max.

Once I get it back I'll try 20/25 and see what the difference is...

I found Intrax's basic suspension FAQ page with links for other stuff here if anyone is interested. (http://www.intraxracing.nl/?cat=productpage&id=439&title=Basic_suspension_terminology)

PS Mods, can we add 'Intrax/KW' to the start of this thread's title and place it in the tech area please? Perhaps just Intrax as there is a KW thread which has just started...

Going back to my picture does the 50 click adjuster alter both rebound and compression at the same time?


"1K2" “2-way adjustable mono tube : high end modular built”.

Adjustable;
1 - Rebound and compression damping-range in 50 positions.
2 - Spring-preload fully adjustable.

Other features;
3 - Mono-tube damper construction.
4 - Internal pressurised nitrogen reservoir.
5 - Advanced thermostat valve for constant damping at whole temperature-range.
6 - Modular built for endless flexibillity.

Options;
1 - Length-adjustment mostly +/- 5mm.
2 - Choice of materials like lightweight aluminiumt/titanium or strong Steel/INOX*.
3 - Internal check-valve for completely seperated compression and rebound.
4 - Can be combined with revolutionary 45mm Slider STRUT-Concept.
5 - Can be combined with fully adjustable camber-plates.
6 - Can be combined with 36mm, 40mm and 46mm main piston diameter.
7 - Can be combined with 14mm, 16mm, 20mm and 22mm piston-rod diameter.

[_Nathan_]

Read my post at the top of this page - post #21 ;)

I would also alter Curlys settings to go from full soft - if you are too strong and try and force them past full hard you can damage them (something to do with needles and forcing through something or other). Also you'll find it is really easy to get full soft as the clicks get easier that way round rather than getting ever stiffer as you move to the stiffer end of the damper.

You have 40 clicks front and 50 rear so it is easy enough to translate them to from full soft values.

All IMO.

[DazBlackCSL]

Well I had a fiddle with the settings last night, and took it a good spin today.

Ride is now perfect, its firm but not harsh. Follows contours alot better and reacts to bumps/ dips well. Higher speeds are good, but still not perfect - still got that floaty feel - which on road is acceptable.

Settings are as follows (from Full Hardest -turn towards softer)

FRONT
Bump - 1.5 full turns
Rebound - 2.0 full turns

REAR
Bump - 1.5 full turns
Rebound - 2.5 full turns (I thought this was just 2.0 ft's, but looking at my notes Ive got 2.5 written - I'll check sometime, if I aint had too many pies, its tight underneath!)

Daz & Bealo, get your settings fired up :thumbs:
Would be a good idea to have a 'KW settings' specific thread really for comparison.

Mine are:
2.5 turns off full hard on the front and 2 off the rear , it's a comfy fast road set up
:smt023:smt047

[Nords]

Read my post at the top of this page - post #21 ;)

I would also alter Curlys settings to go from full soft - if you are too strong and try and force them past full hard you can damage them (something to do with needles and forcing through something or other). Also you'll find it is really easy to get full soft as the clicks get easier that way round rather than getting ever stiffer as you move to the stiffer end of the damper.

You have 40 clicks front and 50 rear so it is easy enough to translate them to from full soft values.

All IMO.

Cheers Nathan, I did read that when you wrote it but forgot after reading up on Intrax's webpages!

Bump...

I found Intrax's basic suspension FAQ page with links for other stuff here if anyone is interested. (http://www.intraxracing.nl/?cat=productpage&id=439&title=Basic_suspension_terminology)

PS Mods, can we add 'Intrax/KW' to the start of this thread's title and place it in the tech area please? Perhaps just Intrax as there is a KW thread which has just started...

[Bealo]

Well I had a fiddle with the settings last night, and took it a good spin today.

Ride is now perfect, its firm but not harsh. Follows contours alot better and reacts to bumps/ dips well. Higher speeds are good, but still not perfect - still got that floaty feel - which on road is acceptable.

Settings are as follows (from Full Hardest -turn towards softer)

FRONT
Bump - 1.5 full turns
Rebound - 2.0 full turns

REAR
Bump - 1.5 full turns
Rebound - 2.5 full turns (I thought this was just 2.0 ft's, but looking at my notes Ive got 2.5 written - I'll check sometime, if I aint had too many pies, its tight underneath!)

Daz & Bealo, get your settings fired up :thumbs:
Would be a good idea to have a 'KW settings' specific thread really for comparison.



I will have a look when i get back to the UK.

Have we got any track settings to add to thread yet?????

[bryce]

Haven't got track specific settings but do have a setting that I used at Knockhill which I though was great (and still suitable for road), I'll look it out later.

[Bealo]

Haven't got track specific settings but do have a setting that I used at Knockhill which I though was great (and still suitable for road), I'll look it out later.



Nice one thanks. :thumbs:

Do you go by the amount of complete rotations each adjuster makes instead of individual click?????

I have been using each click and have found it really fiddly on the rear lower adjuster....

[bryce]

Nice one thanks. :thumbs:

Do you go by the amount of complete rotations each adjuster makes instead of individual click?????

I have been using each click and have found it really fiddly on the rear lower adjuster....

Ive found that with some of the adjusters the clicks aren't fair apparent (cant easily feel or hear them, though some click more than others) so I prefer to just go by 1/4, 1/2 or full turns. Not sure if this is maybe due to weight being on the car?

The rear lower one is a pain in the arse aint it :banghead: Its hard to find the key hole, and I struggle to reach it with the car being lower.

Here's them settings for you:

FRONT:

Damper Rebound: 1.5 Turns off Full Stiffness
Damper Compression: 2.0 Turns off Full Stiffness

REAR:

Damper Rebound: 1.5 Turns off Full Stiffness
Damper Compression: 1.0 Turn off Full Stiffness

[Bealo]

Ive found that with some of the adjusters the clicks aren't fair apparent (cant easily feel or hear them, though some click more than others) so I prefer to just go by 1/4, 1/2 or full turns. Not sure if this is maybe due to weight being on the car?

The rear lower one is a pain in the arse aint it :banghead: Its hard to find the key hole, and I struggle to reach it with the car being lower.

Here's them settings for you:

FRONT:

Damper Rebound: 1.5 Turns off Full Stiffness
Damper Compression: 2.0 Turns off Full Stiffness

REAR:

Damper Rebound: 1.5 Turns off Full Stiffness
Damper Compression: 1.0 Turn off Full Stiffness



Yes it is a pain and now you mention the 1/4 and 1/2 turn it makes more sense.

Looking forward to trying out your road settings. :thumbs:

[glendog74]

Well this thread has proved one thing to me, when the time comes to replace my knackered OEM suspension, i will be going the Intrax 1k2 route... :whistle:

KWv3's way too fiddly to set-up! Intrax easy - road/track - sorted! ;) :hahaha:

[bryce]

Well this thread has proved one thing to me, when the time comes to replace my knackered OEM suspension, i will be going the Intrax 1k2 route... :whistle:

KWv3's way too fiddly to set-up! Intrax easy - road/track - sorted! ;) :hahaha:

I doubt they're as simple as that - if anything they'll require more know how!

I'd have gone Intrax, but couldnt justify the extra £k for what I do. A track warrior like yourself Glendog will probably benefit more.

[Nords]

Well this thread has proved one thing to me, when the time comes to replace my knackered OEM suspension, i will be going the Intrax 1k2 route... :whistle:

KWv3's way too fiddly to set-up! Intrax easy - road/track - sorted! ;) :hahaha:

GD, I have a few settings to try on various tracks around the UK, Spa, the 'ring and the road...

IK2! :thumbs:

[DazBlackCSL]

Well this thread has proved one thing to me, when the time comes to replace my knackered OEM suspension, i will be going the Intrax 1k2 route... :whistle:

KWv3's way too fiddly to set-up! Intrax easy - road/track - sorted! ;) :hahaha:


There not that bad , I only fiddled once or twice :hahaha::hahaha:

Then it was sorted set up :whistle:;)

:smt047

[glendog74]

GD, I have a few settings to try on various tracks around the UK, Spa, the 'ring and the road...

IK2! :thumbs:

Nice one mate - sounds good!

The 1K2 are easier than KW's as far as i can gather. The Intrax 4'way adjustable set-up is a different kettle of fish however, and suited to far more hardcore drivers than me! ;)

[bryce]

There not that bad , I only fiddled once or twice :hahaha::hahaha:

Then it was sorted set up :whistle:;)

:smt047

As Daz says. They're not fiddly, just require fiddling to get your prefered settings. Adjustment is piece of of piss - allen key into either top or bottom of strut / shock and turn harder or softer.

Only issue I have with adjustment is getting my fat ass under the car cos its as low. Intrax would be no better.

[_Nathan_]

You don't need to get under the car for intrax ;)

[Nords]

As Daz says. They're not fiddly, just require fiddling to get your prefered settings. Adjustment is piece of of piss - allen key into either top or bottom of strut / shock and turn harder or softer.

Only issue I have with adjustment is getting my fat ass under the car cos its as low. Intrax would be no better.

Being on a trolley jack helps, but 'allen keys'????? I have the rears the right way up so have to get my massive mitts under the arch. Others put them on upside down to make it easier. If you're changing tyres, it very, very easy (but I imagine KW would be just as easy)

[shimmy]

na

IK2 are easy

both front and back (if fitted upside down) can be turned by hand without tools and without jacking up the car

p.o.p:thumbs: