Interesting read...GTS content

[pinkpanther008]

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/bmw-m4-gts-review/34112

[Mike R]

The first homologation run of 3500 Escort Cosworths had water injection back in 1993, so not a first on a production car.....

[cslsuperfan]

http://www.pistonheads.com/news/ph-germancars/bmw-m4-gts-review/34112


Andy

had a mooch at this at the weekend

Shame the price is a bit rich.

Stonking car none the less.

[Yanto]

So it got a good write up, but not glowing IMO. I really wish they'd get it right. But it feels they shoot for the bull and hit the 25 on both this and the E92.

Looks, Weight, halfords aero additions, gaudy wheels, water injection, price premium over stock car etc.

Porsche seem to get this right, but BMW haven't since CSL IMO.

And even that wasn't well received.

What's the answer ?

[Mike R]

The answer is to poach Andreas Preuninger and give him an open remit to produce a "proper" BMW sports car to rival the GT3.

If people are prepared to pay the thick end of £130k for a pumped up M3, then surely they would pay £150k for a bespoke halo car that rivaled the GT3 / R8 etc.

[pinkpanther008]

So it got a good write up, but not glowing IMO. I really wish they'd get it right. But it feels they shoot for the bull and hit the 25 on both this and the E92.

Looks, Weight, halfords aero additions, gaudy wheels, water injection, price premium over stock car etc.

Porsche seem to get this right, but BMW haven't since CSL IMO.

And even that wasn't well received.

What's the answer ?


Ditto...:supz:

[mattCSLnut]

The answer is to poach Andreas Preuninger and give him an open remit to produce a "proper" BMW sports car to rival the GT3.

If people are prepared to pay the thick end of £130k for a pumped up M3, then surely they would pay £150k for a bespoke halo car that rivaled the GT3 / R8 etc.

While that's not a bad idea Mike :smokin: I doubt Porsche will ever allow it ;)
IMHO the problem with BMW is they are not particularly interested in producing actual "Halo" cars currently.
'M'arketing, 'M'ass production & 'M'argins are the only 'M's they really care for these days :bigcry: which is a real shame considering their past history.

[Yanto]

'M'arketing, 'M'ass production & 'M'argins are the only 'M's they really care for these days :bigcry: which is a real shame considering their past history.

'M'aybe, 'M'aybe not the answer is:

Get rid of all that M sport nonsense

Expand Variant models to map to Porsche:

M3 to Carrera - cooking
M3 GTS to GTS - GT jnr
M3 GT to GT3 - GT
M3 CSL to RS - GT+ / lightweight
M3R to R - low vol / halo model of regular range

Make more / sell more (demand is clearly there).Dealers benefit from more servicing / parts throughput.

Get a road car designer that doesn't just 'stick' bits on.

Get a Motorsport Boss and / or brand Ambassador that are truly passionate and obsessional about the brand.

Le Mans (wth spin off road legal variant / GT1) to give the wealthy punters a halo car
M3 GTR cup cars / series for petrolheads (a la Carrera cup)
Jnr race series (M2) to get the kids into brand

Both of the above on a regular racing card, promote accordingly.

Simples :thumbs:

[AlexGTT]

You're in the wrong fookin' job Ian. ;)

[Yanto]

You're in the wrong fookin' job Ian. ;)

<sigh> just cross-industry multitasking again mate....it's tough being me :hahaha:

[Trawler]

Unfortunately I agree with Matt that the letter 'M' now stands for everything other than Motorsport. I also think the typical BMW punter sees the M cars as the halo models and are not interested in a car that is more driver focused. They just want a M car with all the goodies.*

Take the mrs mini GP for example. I have lost count of the number of people who have asked why did you down grade from the JCW. What they cannot get over is that she has given up sat nav, auto wipers, parking sensors, etc. therefore the car is not as good.*

Yes Ian get rid of all that m sport nonsense as it has devalued the true meaning of M. But it has increased sales. Talk to anyone who has any small part of the m branding on their car and they believe their car is only just short of the real thing.

I hope to be proven wrong about BMW*

[GregorFuk]

I think the crux of the problem is that unlike the Porsche and the 911 all of BMWs hot offerings are based on models that can trace their linnnage back to boggo 3 and 4 series. They are therefore not considered 'proper' ground up sports cars and people baulk at spending the high sums of cash BMW ask for the halo models. There are good reasons Porsche won't let you buy a £20K 2.0L Diesel 911.

If BMW really want to beat Porsche at the GT3 game they need to come out with a model that never offers anything less than M/// levels of performance and moves forwards and upwards from there. The minute you offer the same 'model' car with a 2.0 Diesel you kill it's cache.

BMW had the chance to do this with the i8 but went the hybrid route. Imagine instead if they'd ditched the batteries and put the 4.0 V8 from the E92 M3 in the back of the i8 and called it the M1. They could have then offered a light weight track orientated M1 with the 4.4 V8 from the E92 M3 GTS, called it the M1 GTS.....

[Yanto]

I'm actually not too hung up on the marketing piece. There's not many mainstream manufacturers that don't do it (amg, s-line). It's not for me, but if people feel better for having 'sporty' badges on their car, live and let live as far as I'm concerned. In fact it's funny reading endless threads on 'other' forums slating this and belittling wannabe M car owners (which says a lot about some M car owners :clown:).

Even Ferrari merchandise leaves a lot to be desired.....it prob drives brand awareness and (hopefully in there mind) loyalty early on.

The bigger point is that BMW just can't quite nail it in the same way the Porsche can......and I can't put my finger on why that is ?

[Yanto]

I think the crux of the problem is that unlike the Porsche and the 911 all of BMWs hot offerings are based on models that can trace their linnnage back to boggo 3 and 4 series. They are therefore not considered 'proper' ground up sports cars and people baulk at spending the high sums of cash BMW ask for the halo models. There are good reasons Porsche won't let you buy a £20K 2.0L Diesel 911.

If BMW really want to beat Porsche at the GT3 game they need to come out with a model that never offers anything less than M/// levels of performance and moves forwards and upwards from there. The minute you offer the same 'model' car with a 2.0 Diesel you kill it's cache.

BMW had the chance to do this with the i8 but went the hybrid route. Imagine instead if they'd ditched the batteries and put the 4.0 V8 from the E92 M3 in the back of the i8 and called it the M1. They could have then offered a light weight track orientated M1 with the 4.4 V8 from the E92 M3 GTS, called it the M1 GTS.....

Agree with this.

Was reading this thread earlier which argues a different (but related) topic.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1441631

[glendog74]

<sigh> just cross-industry multitasking again mate....it's tough being me :hahaha:

Always so humble Ian - one of your strongest suits :thumbs:

[Trawler]

Agree with this.

Was reading this thread earlier which argues a different (but related) topic.....

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1441631

Just read the first page then gave up. The mrs loves the look of the R8 over so called super cars

[MarcM]

I think the crux of the problem is that unlike the Porsche and the 911 all of BMWs hot offerings are based on models that can trace their linnnage back to boggo 3 and 4 series. They are therefore not considered 'proper' ground up sports cars and people baulk at spending the high sums of cash BMW ask for the halo models. There are good reasons Porsche won't let you buy a £20K 2.0L Diesel 911.

If BMW really want to beat Porsche at the GT3 game they need to come out with a model that never offers anything less than M/// levels of performance and moves forwards and upwards from there. The minute you offer the same 'model' car with a 2.0 Diesel you kill it's cache.

BMW had the chance to do this with the i8 but went the hybrid route. Imagine instead if they'd ditched the batteries and put the 4.0 V8 from the E92 M3 in the back of the i8 and called it the M1. They could have then offered a light weight track orientated M1 with the 4.4 V8 from the E92 M3 GTS, called it the M1 GTS.....

You make a good point. Although the 911 is bankrolled by the cayenne, panamera and the boxster which saved porches bacon.

Bentley, Jag and Aston are all looking to SUV's to make a business case for their sports cars. I'll let Lamborghini off since they made the LM002.

I agree that BMW should have a stand alone performance car

[cslsuperfan]

You make a good point. Although the 911 is bankrolled by the cayenne, panamera and the boxster which saved porches bacon.

Bentley, Jag and Aston are all looking to SUV's to make a business case for their sports cars. I'll let Lamborghini off since they made the LM002.

I agree that BMW should have a stand alone performance car


Back in the day the lacklustre sales of the E46M3 CSL put the mockers on BMW continuing with the E9/E30/E46CSL brands and what they stand for.

[Brandtner]

Back in the day the lacklustre sales of the E46M3 CSL put the mockers on BMW continuing with the E9/E30/E46CSL brands and what they stand for.

This!

[Trawler]

Back in the day the lacklustre sales of the E46M3 CSL put the mockers on BMW continuing with the E9/E30/E46CSL brands and what they stand for.

I believe the sales of the E30 M3 were also poor. I think BMW attract a different customer.

[Mike R]

I believe the sales of the E30 M3 were also poor. I think BMW attract a different customer.

Not true, they only had to build 5000 to homologate the car for racing, but demand was so great that they built more than three times that. Where Ford just stuck with the 5000 limit for the 3dr Cosworth. Despite the Sierra being a MUCH rarer car, the current values are still similar.

[Trawler]

Not true, they only had to build 5000 to homologate the car for racing, but demand was so great that they built more than three times that. Where Ford just stuck with the 5000 limit for the 3dr Cosworth. Despite the Sierra being a MUCH rarer car, the current values are still similar.

Cheers. I never knew they built that many.

[alexk]

The first homologation run of 3500 Escort Cosworths had water injection back in 1993, so not a first on a production car.....

And that's 23 years ago Mike, so everyone forgot about it by now :hahaha:
Almost everyone...

[Yanto]

'M'aybe, 'M'aybe not the answer is:

Get rid of all that M sport nonsense

Expand Variant models to map to Porsche:

M3 to Carrera - cooking
M3 GTS to GTS - GT jnr
M3 GT to GT3 - GT
M3 CSL to RS - GT+ / lightweight
M3R to R - low vol / halo model of regular range

Make more / sell more (demand is clearly there).Dealers benefit from more servicing / parts throughput.

Get a road car designer that doesn't just 'stick' bits on.

Get a Motorsport Boss and / or brand Ambassador that are truly passionate and obsessional about the brand.

Le Mans (wth spin off road legal variant / GT1) to give the wealthy punters a halo car
M3 GTR cup cars / series for petrolheads (a la Carrera cup)
Jnr race series (M2) to get the kids into brand

Both of the above on a regular racing card, promote accordingly.

Simples :thumbs:

http://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/motorsport-le-mans/bmw-confirms-le-mans-return-and-formula-e-entry

:whistle: