Head Gasket Failures - survey

[Pip1968]

Hopefully there will not be any cover ups or brushing under the carpet ;) . I was reading on PH and someone was mentioning how common the head gasket failure was becoming on the e46 M3. Looking specifically at the CSL though can I ask who has suffered or done a preventative gasket replacement. The poster mentioned seeing x3 CSLs in for head gaskets failures. I am guessing that heavily tracked cars are possibly more susceptible as well as higher mileage.

Perhaps a cut and paste with me to start. Feel free to bastardize my layout but was thinking Y/N or P - preventative with rough mileage and if it is tracked or not. You may also with to mention if you have had a compression test done.

So here goes me:

N 41,000 miles - tracked - no compression test (yet) - Pip


Pip (scaremongerer)

[Matt21]

My warranty is about to expire so want a compression test. How much are they and where should I go?

[Monkey]

My warranty is about to expire so want a compression test. How much are they and where should I go?

You need a cylinder leakage test, not just a compression test.

[Jon8710]

monkey

can you send me your contact details at work I need to talk to you about a few bits once back from Spa

cheers

[shimmy]

Hopefully there will not be any cover ups or brushing under the carpet ;) . I was reading on PH and someone was mentioning how common the head gasket failure was becoming on the e46 M3. Looking specifically at the CSL though can I ask who has suffered or done a preventative gasket replacement. The poster mentioned seeing x3 CSLs in for head gaskets failures. I am guessing that heavily tracked cars are possibly more susceptible as well as higher mileage.

Perhaps a cut and paste with me to start. Feel free to bastardize my layout but was thinking Y/N or P - preventative with rough mileage and if it is tracked or not. You may also with to mention if you have had a compression test done.

So here goes me:

N 41,000 miles - tracked - no compression test (yet) - Pip


Pip (scaremongerer)


Nothing going on here....move down the bus please :whistle: (is there a members section?)

[alexk]

105k kilometers, tracked, ECU map stock, no HG failure. Leak test done twice.

[MisterCorn]

My car is on 70k miles, I believe that it did have the head gasket done before my ownership. I assume it has been on the track, why else would somebody fit lovely big AP brakes?

MC

[pops]

Mine had the HG done at 75K as part of preventative maint.

No prior signs of failure but according to Barts, it couldn't have been any closer to potential disaster. Had split between cyls 1 & 2, 5 & 6

Tracked prior to me owning it but no idea how often.


http://i1061.photobucket.com/albums/t461/Brian53/image%209_zps8n42mktk.jpg (http://s1061.photobucket.com/user/Brian53/media/image%209_zps8n42mktk.jpg.html)

[Jon8710]

Had my HG done at about 70k
went in for a service and Gareth at Elmes did the HG at the same time as he said it sounded funny but I didn't notice it, all sorted on warranty along with a new gear box. thanks very much

I tracked it a few times and don't think its had a particularly hard life before me.

cheers

[nw942]

You need a cylinder leakage test, not just a compression test.

If your compression test results are good, what issues would the leak-down test actually check/identify?

Cheers

[Monkey]

If your compression test results are good, do you need to conduct a leak-down test aswell?

Cheers

Yes, definately! A compression test will not show up a head gasket that is only just failing, where as a cylinder leakage test will prove beyond any doubt if there is a failure, no matter how small.

In my experience if you get to the point a compression test is required, a fault is already pretty evident and all you're trying to do is locate the cylinder the fault is on. The next step is to carry out a cylinder leakage test anyway, to determine what the cause of the low compression is (valves leaking, blow past the piston rings, head gasket, cracked block etc).

If the head gasket has gone on these engine quite badly, you can normally hear it in the exhaust note at idle too.

Seen a few big end bearing shells go shortly after a head gasket replacement as well, something to be aware of.

[pops]

Seen a few big end bearing shells go shortly after a head gasket replacement as well, something to be aware of.

Had these done at the same time.

Belts and braces and all that. :whistle:

[billyboysm3]

Mine went on 43k miles. New engine needed as warped head and block.

[MCSL]

Mine failed test at 31k miles. Ended up needing new engine - luckily had BMW warranty. Gareth said HG failure is common on CSL. £16k warranty work!

[GregorFuk]

40k miles on my engine, 3 track days and hard road driving. Redish did a compression test when it was down for it's subframe repair last winter. Even after siting for weeks unturned it returned good uniform compression so I assume the HG is good.

It's worth noting that before you do a compression or leak down test you have to have the valve clearances done to ensure you are getting good sealing.

[Pip1968]

Nothing going on here....move down the bus please :whistle: (is there a members section?)

Ha ha ha. The Shimmster strikes ! Actually I let my membership lapse as my wife was always complaining about being on my w##ky sites so thought I would try going cold turkey. As it is I may have to sign back up so I can catch up with all that camel toe :hahaha:.

On top of that I need to get hold of Mark to see if he can seal a CF end plate - one is alright and the other bare carbon fibre.

Is there a survey or long post on HG failures in the members section ( - not that it is a common problem you understand ;)..........:hahaha::hahaha: )

Yes, definately! A compression test will not show up a head gasket that is only just failing, where as a cylinder leakage test will prove beyond any doubt if there is a failure, no matter how small.

In my experience if you get to the point a compression test is required, a fault is already pretty evident and all you're trying to do is locate the cylinder the fault is on. The next step is to carry out a cylinder leakage test anyway, to determine what the cause of the low compression is (valves leaking, blow past the piston rings, head gasket, cracked block etc).

If the head gasket has gone on these engine quite badly, you can normally hear it in the exhaust note at idle too.

Seen a few big end bearing shells go shortly after a head gasket replacement as well, something to be aware of.

Monkey, am I missing a trick here? Why cannot you just get a cylinder leakage test done and cut out the middle man (Mr Compression)??? Please explain in fairly basic terms as I am a 'tinkerer' and certainly no engineer.

Actually I am surprised Bartletts et al do not offer/recommend it as part of an Inspection I/II especially as looking at the mileages above many must be there or have surpassed 'critical mass' point.

Are you saying that only a late point can be spotted at say an Inspection/Service and it is very unlikely early symptoms could be seen without a compression/leak down?

Finally Monkey (Brighton?), are you able to quote prices for these (you may have to PM of course if you are not a sponser ;) ). Oh and do you need an expert to do this or can you just pop to an every day garage. Obviously leaving the work if needed to a specialist.

Pip

[Monkey]

Ha ha ha. The Shimmster strikes ! Actually I let my membership lapse as my wife was always complaining about being on my w##ky sites so thought I would try going cold turkey. As it is I may have to sign back up so I can catch up with all that camel toe :hahaha:.

On top of that I need to get hold of Mark to see if he can seal a CF end plate - one is alright and the other bare carbon fibre.

Is there a survey or long post on HG failures in the members section ( - not that it is a common problem you understand ;)..........:hahaha::hahaha: )



Monkey, am I missing a trick here? Why cannot you just get a cylinder leakage test done and cut out the middle man (Mr Compression)??? Please explain in fairly basic terms as I am a 'tinkerer' and certainly no engineer.

Actually I am surprised Bartletts et al do not offer/recommend it as part of an Inspection I/II especially as looking at the mileages above many must be there or have surpassed 'critical mass' point.

Are you saying that only a late point can be spotted at say an Inspection/Service and it is very unlikely early symptoms could be seen without a compression/leak down?

Finally Monkey (Brighton?), are you able to quote prices for these (you may have to PM of course if you are not a sponser ;) ). Oh and do you need an expert to do this or can you just pop to an every day garage. Obviously leaving the work if needed to a specialist.

Pip


You're quite right pip, there is an argument to go straight to the cylinder leakage test when dealing with the S54 engine.

If it were to be carried out at the same time as an inspection 1 or 2 for example, the amount of labour required would be reduced as the engine is already partially stripped.

As happened to Billy, if it's allowed to go on with a failed head gasket too long, it will damage the engine block beyond repair. For the sake of up to a couple of hours labour to test it, is it worth the risk?

Early symptoms can be hard to spot, pinking under hard acceleration, and a slightly off beat exhaust note at idle (to a trained ear!) are indications of an issue. Possibly smooth running values on a diagnostic live readings could also be an indication.

I worked on a CSL that the gasket had gone between every cylinder, customer didn't notice at all. As soon as I drove it in the workshop I could hear it in the exhaust note.


Anyone competent with a cylinder leakage tester should be able to carry out the test:) A good engine should be no more than approx 5% leakage. With a failed head gasket you can feel the air coming from the adjoining cylinders plug hole!

[rstoughy]

This is exactly what happened with mine, the car had been laid up for a couple of months so on initial run I heard "pinking", turned around and headed straight home.

On idle it was sounding like it was almost off a cyl.
Straight onto the blower to the dealer, car in and HG diagnosed as at fault.
Had gone between 4 of the 6 cyls.

High 5 for the Mondial warranty :thumbs:



Early symptoms can be hard to spot, pinking under hard acceleration, and a slightly off beat exhaust note at idle (to a trained ear!) are indications of an issue

[select]

Didn't know that s54's are prone to head gasket failures.. quite staggered, actually. There goes me thinking that after getting the rear end fixed and the bearings replaced my car is now bulletproof. :bigcry:

For the record:



N 41,000 miles - tracked - no compression test (yet) - Pip
70.000 miles - not tracked (afaik) - no compression test - still on original head gasket - select

[cslsuperfan]

Didn't know that s54's are prone to head gasket failures.. quite staggered, actually. There goes me thinking that after getting the rear end fixed and the bearings replaced my car is now bulletproof. :bigcry:

For the record:



N 41,000 miles - tracked - no compression test (yet) - Pip
70.000 miles - not tracked (afaik) - no compression test - still on original head gasket - select



Call the Science museum, we've discovered a new species ;)

[select]

Looking at its stock brakes & suspension i can only guess that it wasn't tracked, perhaps it has seen a racetrack before but in my books that would hardly classify as 'tracked' :blalalala:

I do plan to change that though :beer: