Tyres alternative to Cup

[nw99]

Alternatives to cup tyres .
Does anyone have any experience of non cup tyres which are recommended and how are the ride and handling effected please ?
Thanks as always for your time .

[shimmy]

we use DZ03G on the E36m3 but that is 1150kg (300kg lighter). but the tyres are very good. I suspect that DZ03G are best option as Kuhmo are hard to get hold of and Nangkangs performance and longevity are a bit of an unknown still at that sort of weight car

billy has a new set of 265 DZo3g now so his feeedback will be critical.

[nw99]

we use DZ03G on the E36m3 but that is 1150kg (300kg lighter). but the tyres are very good. I suspect that DZ03G are best option as Kuhmo are hard to get hold of and Nangkangs performance and longevity are a bit of an unknown still at that sort of weight car

billy has a new set of 265 DZo3g now so his feeedback will be critical.

Thanks await Billy's thoughts

[nw99]

Shimmy ,

Any alternative non cup tyres as I don't do any track work that I can use in town and on the country roads that you know about also please .

[shimmy]

M Pilot Super Sport all round use

[nw99]

Thanks very much do you know sizes and also best places to buy ?

[shimmy]

Thanks very much do you know sizes and also best places to buy ?

standard cups sizes

235.35.19
265.30.19

i got mine from tyreleader.co.uk and had them fitted locally

[nw99]

Thanks Shimmy owe you a beer when I meet you thanks very much

[Clubber]

As other have mentioned Michelin SS is the best tyre for the road. On track, Cups are great but getting harder to find each day, I will be switching to Trofeo R for my next set.

[Chappers]

Another vote for the super sport here. I've done 10,000 miles on mine now being regularly somewhat tail-happy as well as a full day being the quickest car with number plates at Oulton Park and there's still 5-6mm left on them. Amazing tyres.

[Has csl]

Michelin ss are definitely the default choice. Goodyear eagle f1 3's asymmetric have been getting pretty good reviews. If on par with the ss on performance, then it could prove to be an alternative.

[GregorFuk]

Latest or last, can't remember which, EVO mag reports that Super Sports are being phased out and will be replaced by the Pilot Sport 4.

[MarcM]

I think the Super Sport is being superseded by the Pilot Sport 4 this year in 17" and 18" with bigger sizes due to stop next year.

Got Eagle F1's on mine, no complaints.

[nw99]

Off to get some Michelin SS next week

[Marv968]

Good choice!

I was commenting to my friend yesterday after driving along the Col De Turini, that the Super Sports work really well on the CSL.

[nw99]

£790 through black circle is that a good price for 4 ?

[Marv968]

I found tyreleader.co.uk were the cheapest when I bought them. Not sure how they compare now

[nw99]

Thanks £790 the same

[0836whimper]

Do Cup 2's come in CSL sizes ?
Most new track orientated cars seem to be specced with them now and they are getting rave reviews.

[billyboysm3]

For track use Dunlop 03g's, better than cups, would kill another car on cup 2

[shimmy]

For track use Dunlop 03g's, better than cups, would kill another car on cup 2

are you doing Donny in July..we should do a straight Cup-DZo3G swap

[Trawler]

Do Cup 2's come in CSL sizes ?
Most new track orientated cars seem to be specced with them now and they are getting rave reviews.

They are still sh*t with standing water, so take care on the road.

[s1csl]

are you doing Donny in July..we should do a straight Cup-DZo3G swap

Yep I am you coming for a play

[shimmy]

Yep I am you coming for a play

nothing booked but may try to clear the diary

[billyboysm3]

are you doing Donny in July..we should do a straight Cup-DZo3G swap

Yeah, these dunlops are very good. Nearly as good as slicks. Only 27 cars at south west on Friday. Car didn't feel right at snett but now bang on. Was able to do a few laps and change settings. Inner section on that track is awesome. Rather do that then gp.

[Mike R]

Do Cup 2's come in CSL sizes ?
Most new track orientated cars seem to be specced with them now and they are getting rave reviews.

Yes, but they're terrible compared to the Cup 1s. The Cup 1s will last a good 20 minute session before getting too hot. The Cup 2's have a 2-lap window before doing the same.

The Porsche specific Cup 2s are better, but we can't fit them to our size wheels.

Trofeo Rs are alleged to be as good if not fractionally better than the Cup 1s (being a newer design) and they do them in CSL specific sizes as well. However, I have not tried them yet, so would be interesting to see how Clubber finds them compared to the Cup 1s.

[billyboysm3]

Dunlops are pretty decent in the wet.

Shimmy you can take the car out and do laps in it save swapping tyres.

[Trawler]

Yes, but they're terrible compared to the Cup 1s. The Cup 1s will last a good 20 minute session before getting too hot. The Cup 2's have a 2-lap window before doing the same.

The Porsche specific Cup 2s are better, but we can't fit them to our size wheels.

Trofeo Rs are alleged to be as good if not fractionally better than the Cup 1s (being a newer design) and they do them in CSL specific sizes as well. However, I have not tried them yet, so would be interesting to see how Clubber finds them compared to the Cup 1s.

I think I read on a Porche thread cup 2s are good for 4 laps. In marketing language that is a 100% improvement for their specific tyres. :hahaha::hahaha:

I think the same person said the R tyres are now banned for road use. No idea if it is true.

[0836whimper]

There was an article in Evo last month about how reg changes have meant many road legal track tyres are now suddenly illegal to be used on the road. Can't recall all the details....it was complicated.

[pops]

The only EVO thing google chucks up is this...dated 2009 though.

http://www.evo.co.uk/news/evonews/236977/trackday_tyres_to_be_outlawed.html

[Mike R]

There was an article in Evo last month about how reg changes have meant many road legal track tyres are now suddenly illegal to be used on the road. Can't recall all the details....it was complicated.

My understanding was that they weren't illegal to use on the road, but that they are now not legal for the tyre manufacturers to sell any more for road use. This means that all old stock can still be used, but after they are gone, there will no longer be any track day tyres available for road use :(.

[shimmy]

My understanding was that they weren't illegal to use on the road, but that they are now not legal for the tyre manufacturers to sell any more for road use. This means that all old stock can still be used, but after they are gone, there will no longer be any track day tyres available for road use :(.

Correct

Once E marked, always E marked

Mainly to do with noise and fuel use
iirc.

[toenheel]

I've found my Cup 2's to be superb on the road so far, car feels like it has a lot more grip to the rear and very planted under high speed cornering.

[Trawler]

I've found my Cup 2's to be superb on the road so far, car feels like it has a lot more grip to the rear and very planted under high speed cornering.

As I've mentioned before watch out for the slightest bit of standing water. I've already messed up my pants when believing them to be better than the full fat version.

[Bounce]

As I've mentioned before watch out for the slightest bit of standing water. I've already messed up my pants when believing them to be better than the full fat version.:hahaha::hahaha:

[nw99]

New Michelin Pilots fitted really improved the ride thx guys

[Gurbinder]

Just bought some M Super sport from Costco £647 all inc fitted.

[Alx]

I did the same.

Thanks for your advice!

[estoril]

Has anyone tried Yoko AD08R's on the CSL? I use them on our MINI and they are a great all round tyre, cope well with water (even standing water) and are fantastic on track.

I spoke to Michelin about the PSS being discontinued and got this reply:

"PSS is gradually being replaced by Pilot Sport 4 in certain sizes and like all manufacturers, we are working on future tyre models . PSS will be manufactured for many years to come. "

[LaSource]

So for track use (road legal) tyres the options for 19" rims seem to be:
- Cup 2
- Dunlop
- AD08R
- TrofeoR

I've used the Porsche Cup 2 tyres a lot and found them superb. On a car with stiffer suspension they give great feedback through the corners. They do go off quickly in the first 1-2 sessions but after a few heat cycles (and usually late morning and after lunch on a track day) they are very consistent and stable.

I wonder whether the people reporting them going off are basing the observation on the initial heat cycles and not the latter day performance?

Being new to the E46 platform, I'm looking to decide which way to go with track tyres and was minded to continue with the Cup 2s

[Mike R]

So for track use (road legal) tyres the options for 19" rims seem to be:
- Cup 2
- Dunlop
- AD08R
- TrofeoR

I've used the Porsche Cup 2 tyres a lot and found them superb. On a car with stiffer suspension they give great feedback through the corners. They do go off quickly in the first 1-2 sessions but after a few heat cycles (and usually late morning and after lunch on a track day) they are very consistent and stable.

I wonder whether the people reporting them going off are basing the observation on the initial heat cycles and not the latter day performance?

Being new to the E46 platform, I'm looking to decide which way to go with track tyres and was minded to continue with the Cup 2s

Hi Tanvir,
Good to see you joining in :).

I am lead to believe that the Porsche spec Cup 2s get a unique compound that appears to be much better than the cooking version of the Cup 2s, so this would be a good opportunity to have this confirmed by someone who has experience of the Porsche versions. It's not that the Cup 2s are that much worse grip wise than the full fat Cups, it's just that they fall off a cliff once they get hot. Full fat Cups do 4-5 back to back laps at the 'ring before finally starting to surrender, Cup 2s do that part way through the second lap.... So it is just the working window that seems to be the issue. They come back again, once cooled, but then still just have that much smaller operating window which is annoying.

See what you think? :)

[LaSource]

Hi Tanvir,
Good to see you joining in :).

I am lead to believe that the Porsche spec Cup 2s get a unique compound that appears to be much better than the cooking version of the Cup 2s, so this would be a good opportunity to have this confirmed by someone who has experience of the Porsche versions. It's not that the Cup 2s are that much worse grip wise than the full fat Cups, it's just that they fall off a cliff once they get hot. Full fat Cups do 4-5 back to back laps at the 'ring before finally starting to surrender, Cup 2s do that part way through the second lap.... So it is just the working window that seems to be the issue. They come back again, once cooled, but then still just have that much smaller operating window which is annoying.

See what you think? :)

Hey Mike...yes, new addition now finds me in new forums :) Need to get this old forum ID changed but the admin guys didn't respond to my request.

I would like to think there is not a major difference in the compounds. Of course the weight and its distribution in the 911 platform is different - The 996GT3/GT4 are circa 1350kg vs 1500kg(?) in an E46 M3...lighter for the CSL of course.

On the 6GT3 I would run about 29 PSI F / 31 PSI R given the road cold pressures are 32/39. So would be interesting to see what pressures people are running here. At somewhere like Spa and Silverstone during the afternoon session I could run the car almost relentlessly - ok, depends on your pace of course. I'd be doing circa 2.49/2.27 Spa/Silly.

At the ring 5 laps (imho) is a bit crazy for the average amateur (you excluded of course :) )...and you know I've had the issue or two on a long stint.

I am also running with the conspiracy theory (unproven and baseless) that Michelin have changed the Cup 2 compound since launch. My early sets on the 6GT3 were brilliant and very hard wearing. My later sets particularly on the GT4 have been a little less consistent and less hard wearing...I wonder whether Michelin decided to shorten the lifespan as they were far out compared to the competition.

Compared to Cup+ tyres, I love the mid corner 'feel' from the Cup 2 tyres...whatever magic they have done with the sidewalls, with a stiffer set up they really communicate how much grip/slip you have at each corner.

...finally, the platform also makes a difference. In the 911 platform where you use a lot of weight management to generate grip at each axle, tyre wear is fairly consistent and relatively longer lasting, in the mid engined GT4 with higher entry speeds I've found the cup 2s wearing much more with the fronts providing only 2 track days (geo of course improves this a little)...so again will be intrigued to see how these characteristics play out in the E46 platform.

..sorry, for the long post hopefully not completely off topic!

[billyboysm3]

Im going to end this thread now. Do not buy anything else other than dunlop 03G, run square set up 265 35 18.

These tyres are absolutely bloody awesome and grip as good as a used slick.

On track in a E46 M3 ive run proper cups, shit loads of medium and hard slicks and a new set of dunlops.

They are well worth the money. In the wet and damp they also have very good grip as long as you like the car moving around.

All the quick boys run them on there E36 M3's.

[billyboysm3]

Dunlops do go off but seem to grip, well exceed the number of laps normal cups can do and probably any other road legal tyre.

[LaSource]

Are they available in 19"/CSL fitment?

[billyboysm3]

Are they available in 19"/CSL fitment?

Not sure as Id buy a set of 18's for track.

[Mike R]

Hey Mike...yes, new addition now finds me in new forums :) Need to get this old forum ID changed but the admin guys didn't respond to my request.

I would like to think there is not a major difference in the compounds. Of course the weight and its distribution in the 911 platform is different - The 996GT3/GT4 are circa 1350kg vs 1500kg(?) in an E46 M3...lighter for the CSL of course.

On the 6GT3 I would run about 29 PSI F / 31 PSI R given the road cold pressures are 32/39. So would be interesting to see what pressures people are running here. At somewhere like Spa and Silverstone during the afternoon session I could run the car almost relentlessly - ok, depends on your pace of course. I'd be doing circa 2.49/2.27 Spa/Silly.

At the ring 5 laps (imho) is a bit crazy for the average amateur (you excluded of course :) )...and you know I've had the issue or two on a long stint.

I am also running with the conspiracy theory (unproven and baseless) that Michelin have changed the Cup 2 compound since launch. My early sets on the 6GT3 were brilliant and very hard wearing. My later sets particularly on the GT4 have been a little less consistent and less hard wearing...I wonder whether Michelin decided to shorten the lifespan as they were far out compared to the competition.

Compared to Cup+ tyres, I love the mid corner 'feel' from the Cup 2 tyres...whatever magic they have done with the sidewalls, with a stiffer set up they really communicate how much grip/slip you have at each corner.

...finally, the platform also makes a difference. In the 911 platform where you use a lot of weight management to generate grip at each axle, tyre wear is fairly consistent and relatively longer lasting, in the mid engined GT4 with higher entry speeds I've found the cup 2s wearing much more with the fronts providing only 2 track days (geo of course improves this a little)...so again will be intrigued to see how these characteristics play out in the E46 platform.

..sorry, for the long post hopefully not completely off topic!

We try to keep them at around 32/33psi hot.

Would be interesting to see how you get on with them with the E46.

As stated the Direzzas are in a different league, but not sure if the NVH would be okay on the road - perhaps Billy can confirm?

[billyboysm3]

I found the dunlops better than cups on the road, felt grippy in wet and damp conditions. Didn't think the road noise was to bad, can't really hear anything in the cabin any how

[alexk]

Not sure as Id buy a set of 18's for track.

Unfortunately my brakes are too big for 18" wheels...

[LaSource]

Unfortunately my brakes are too big for 18" wheels...

Same here. My front discs are 362mm but I think they may just fit 18" ARC-8s

(Sorry, non CSL content!)

http://thumbsnap.com/i/J9AAN0t4.jpg

[conleth m3]

interesting you think the newer cup2's might be a different compound, gt3. im on my second set of cup2's on the 997 gt3rs and bought N0 spec as not much difference in price.

my previous set ( fitted oct'14) were not porsche spec and i found them very very good on the gt3, needed to get pressures correct, usually about 31F and 32-33R, but wore very evenly, lasted 9 trackdays on front, rears were good for a couple more probably, think fronts wore more as faulty pressure gauge ment i was running them ~27F which was too low

the N0 set i have on now has a little more understeer and dont feel quite as stable, but still very good. about 50% worn after 4 trackdays, so quite similar to previous set.

id put the lower grip feeling down to being N0 rather than normal cup2's

[LaSource]

That's a very interesting point. I think my first set were not N rated as they had only just come out...and I strongly suspect the second set were N rated. That could explain the differences in wear rates. I think I have both sets in the garage so will check.

On the GT4 I've been using N rated (as the car is still under warranty) and these have been wearing at an alarming rate. Some of this is down to the GT4 just eating front tyres whilst standing still!!

[billyboysm3]

Same here. My front discs are 362mm but I think they may just fit 18" ARC-8s

(Sorry, non CSL content!)

http://thumbsnap.com/i/J9AAN0t4.jpg

Apec Arc 8 and some dunlops will do the trick

[conleth m3]

That's a very interesting point. I think my first set were not N rated as they had only just come out...and I strongly suspect the second set were N rated. That could explain the differences in wear rates. I think I have both sets in the garage so will check.

On the GT4 I've been using N rated (as the car is still under warranty) and these have been wearing at an alarming rate. Some of this is down to the GT4 just eating front tyres whilst standing still!!

i think that could be it, will order normal ones for my next set. have heard the gt4 can be heavy on tyres! but an awesome bit of kit :)


mike i think youre right - smaller operating window, outside that loose grip but if can keep them stable they work really well. just a couple of psi too high and they feel greasy