To sell or to hold on - CSL values

[Matt21]

I know this won't be the most popular topic but grateful of your thoughts.

Bought a 997 Turbo as a daily, but it is actually far better than I first went out to find. Deciding now to use it as a weekend car. I have 2 CSLs already, and it seems pointless having the three.

I could sell the 34k CSL for probably about £60k right now. Honestly I don't need the cash, it would sit in the bank. Keeping the CSL on the road and doing about 1000 miles will be £1-2k

In your opinion would my money be better invested in the CSL over the next 12mths or pocket the cash. The second CSL gets much more use and is off to the ring next month!

[Yanto]

Cash is king :thumbs:

Just don't put it in the bank.

[nw99]

If someone offered you 60k that's strong money take it.

[cslsuperfan]

I know this won't be the most popular topic but grateful of your thoughts.

Bought a 997 Turbo as a daily, but it is actually far better than I first went out to find. Deciding now to use it as a weekend car. I have 2 CSLs already, and it seems pointless having the three.

I could sell the 34k CSL for probably about £60k right now. Honestly I don't need the cash, it would sit in the bank. Keeping the CSL on the road and doing about 1000 miles will be £1-2k

In your opinion would my money be better invested in the CSL over the next 12mths or pocket the cash. The second CSL gets much more use and is off to the ring next month!


£60K would be tempting and as you have a spare csl in the garage it may be prudent to sell whilst the market is strong.
I'm not entirely convinced the market values for csl's in general is that strong.

Agreed the very low mileage examples are achieving eye watering values but the higher mileage cars are not selling as robustly.

2 possible reasons for this-

the csl in question is not up to the scrutiny of the would-be owner.
it is overpriced.

the 92,000 miler that sold @ ML recently for £36K is a true marker as to the actual value of cars of this ilk.

Is it not the case that the values have only really ballooned in the garage queen/museum/low mileage examples.

Just me chewin' the cud.

[Matt21]

Thanks for the advice folks. Will see how I get on with the Porsche for a month or so then may move the CSL on.

[Chappers]

the 92,000 miler that sold @ ML recently for £36K is a true marker as to the actual value of cars of this ilk.


You mean the one that sold within about 5 hours of being listed? I think the only true marker there was that they underpriced it.

[billyboysm3]

Stick it up for £60k, if it sells it sells, if not you haven't lost anything bar knowing its not going to fetch that kind of dollar.

Then use and abuse the Porsche and other CSL.

I sold mine and do not miss it.

[nw99]

I would sell mine as well for that sort of money !

[Matt21]

I would sell mine as well for that sort of money !



How many miles has yours done and what condition is it in?

[nw99]

VGC Full Service history always on time 37,000 miles

[Matt21]

Yours has to be close to £60k. Look at what £50k gets you these days!

CSL780 had 39k miles and sold for £55k.

[nw99]

Mid 50's I think , but if the black 60k car makes 50,000 I might revise that .

[Matt21]

Agree, that is the acid test!

Will be interesting to see what happens this year considering the big jumps during the selling season in recent years

[cslsuperfan]

You mean the one that sold within about 5 hours of being listed? I think the only true marker there was that they underpriced it.

Good point.
I didn't realise it had sold so quickly.

[73CSL]

factory 'track biased' performance road car that can be used all year round and you can use to take the missus away for the weekend in .. GT3 or CSL ? Don't really think there are any other alternatives

CSL = £35K upwards ?

GT3 = £ 60K upwards ?

GT3 has priced itself out of range of a lot of buyers .. although same could be said of the CSL

Who knows wether pricing has levelled off. I'm pretty confident CSL's won't drop below £35K again as there is no alternative car to buy at that level. Will they continue to rise , I reckon they will , slowly , especially if the M2 CSL opens up interest again and people realise most modern cars 'lack' something the old ones had.

[Matt21]

factory 'track biased' performance road car that can be used all year round and you can use to take the missus away for the weekend in .. GT3 or CSL ? Don't really think there are any other alternatives

CSL = £35K upwards ?

GT3 = £ 60K upwards ?

GT3 has priced itself out of range of a lot of buyers .. although same could be said of the CSL

Who knows wether pricing has levelled off. I'm pretty confident CSL's won't drop below £35K again as there is no alternative car to buy at that level. Will they continue to rise , I reckon they will , slowly , especially if the M2 CSL opens up interest again and people realise most modern cars 'lack' something the old ones had.

I agree with that.

Still hoping the Landy gets a huge CSLesque rise in price now It has been discontinued!:hahaha:

[73CSL]

if the landy rockets up , that will be another one of my bad decisions to sell ... the other was my immaculate 996 turbo with 33K miles on that I sold to a trader for £23K so I could go out and buy my CSL ( buying the CSL made up for it ) ... also back in 2006 selling an immaculate 1967 Porsche 911 2.0 for £18K :( if only I'd kept it


On CSL pricing .. my CSL is 69.5K miles as we speak and FBMW history, but with a fair few owners. I reckon realistic price for mine if I was to sell it would be in the £38K-£42K range

[Pooky]

if the landy rockets up , that will be another one of my bad decisions to sell ... the other was my immaculate 996 turbo with 33K miles on that I sold to a trader for £23K so I could go out and buy my CSL ( buying the CSL made up for it ) ... also back in 2006 selling an immaculate 1967 Porsche 911 2.0 for £18K :( if only I'd kept it


On CSL pricing .. my CSL is 69.5K miles as we speak and FBMW history, but with a fair few owners. I reckon realistic price for mine if I was to sell it would be in the £38K-£42K range

Worth more than that, wouldn't take less than 45k

[cslsuperfan]

if the landy rockets up , that will be another one of my bad decisions to sell ... the other was my immaculate 996 turbo with 33K miles on that I sold to a trader for £23K so I could go out and buy my CSL ( buying the CSL made up for it ) ... also back in 2006 selling an immaculate 1967 Porsche 911 2.0 for £18K :( if only I'd kept it


On CSL pricing .. my CSL is 69.5K miles as we speak and FBMW history, but with a fair few owners. I reckon realistic price for mine if I was to sell it would be in the £38K-£42K range


Mine is on the same mileage ish (68K)

Having it valued with a well respected dealer this week

If it's £38K-£42K I will have a cry :bigcry:

[Matt21]

if the landy rockets up , that will be another one of my bad decisions to sell ... the other was my immaculate 996 turbo with 33K miles on that I sold to a trader for £23K so I could go out and buy my CSL ( buying the CSL made up for it ) ... also back in 2006 selling an immaculate 1967 Porsche 911 2.0 for £18K :( if only I'd kept it


On CSL pricing .. my CSL is 69.5K miles as we speak and FBMW history, but with a fair few owners. I reckon realistic price for mine if I was to sell it would be in the £38K-£42K range

I don't think it will shoot up unfortunately for me! Right now it needs a new exhaust after it fell off offroading over Christmas (it out performed the 110s it was with!). Still love it!

Your CSL is worth way more than that. Don't think number of owners really matters.

[73CSL]

I don't think it will shoot up unfortunately for me! Right now it needs a new exhaust after it fell off offroading over Christmas (it out performed the 110s it was with!). Still love it!

Your CSL is worth way more than that. Don't think number of owners really matters.

offroading a Series 2A :thumbs:

It saw some moorland byways with me & that was it .. previous owner used on road only. Great things offroad , if somewhat agricultural

[73CSL]

if as a collective we think its over £40K .. that's fine by me :thumbs:

No plans to sell anyway until someone can point me to a quick 4 seater that is fun and isn't going to depreciate ;) I can't see one that fills this role.

[billyboysm3]

Stick it up for £60k

[SSS]

if as a collective we think its over £40K .. that's fine by me :thumbs:

No plans to sell anyway until someone can point me to a quick 4 seater that is fun and isn't going to depreciate ;) I can't see one that fills this role.

1M?

[nw99]

1M?

M5 Touring ?

[SSS]

Stick it up for £45K :whistle:


And let me know 😊

[billyboysm3]

And let me know 😊

You needed to buy 5 years ago when a 30k miler was £27k

[Pip1968]

Stick it up for £60k, if it sells it sells, if not you haven't lost anything bar knowing its not going to fetch that kind of dollar.


I am with BillyBoysM3. At the end of the day your could always pull out at the last minute or just take the £60,000. I nearly bought W1TAK's CSL a few years ago (~2007) but he changed his mind and then sold it six months later.

At least it will give you a good idea if that sell price is acheiveable.

Pip

[Matt21]

Sound advice. Pick the Porker up in a month so will see how I get on with it first

If someone offered me £60k right here right now I think I would say no! Kind of proves that I don't really want to sell it!

See that Nick Johnson sold his 36,000 mile car fairly quickly which was advertised at £60,000

[MCSL]

I don't know what's happening with prices atm. So much 'new' stuff is selling at premiums that were previously unheard of. I wonder if there's just too many people with too much money that are desperate to be part of it. The bubble will pop, but how it affects cars like the CSL, I don't know. Personally, and after owning one, I think they are starting to look expensive. Parts are limited, and engine problems are not rare. I bought mine for £32.5k (from memory) and thought it was worth the money at that (50% cost of a 997GT3). Same car today at £60k loses my feeling of value/worth. My money today would be on the 996/997 GT3 (non-RS).

[dave wilkinson]

There is no bubble and it's not gonna burst, people need to except these prices are here to stay. When the 'bubble burst' last time people had to get out of cars quick which had to be discounted to pay the loaned money back. Cars at present are bought with hard earned cash, the people buying them CAN afford them as its toy money.

You'd have to be mad to sell a Csl at current prices as there's still no replacement for similar money.

[Pip1968]

I don't know what's happening with prices atm. So much 'new' stuff is selling at premiums that were previously unheard of. I wonder if there's just too many people with too much money that are desperate to be part of it. The bubble will pop, but how it affects cars like the CSL, I don't know. Personally, and after owning one, I think they are starting to look expensive. Parts are limited, and engine problems are not rare. I bought mine for £32.5k (from memory) and thought it was worth the money at that (50% cost of a 997GT3). Same car today at £60k loses my feeling of value/worth. My money today would be on the 996/997 GT3 (non-RS).

But I think you have missed the boat on the 996/997 GT3 (non RS) and the GT3 RS. I few years ago they were still well above the CSL prices at around £45,000 (GT3)/£65,000 (RS) and then about two years (advent of the non manual 991 GT3) ago jumped to £65,000 (GT3)/£120,000 (RS). There were very few around but once the prices jumped a lot of people decided to cash in and probably could not believe their luck. Personally I think Porsche f##ked up a little with a paddle shift GT3/RS trying to go for a different market. That and the loss of a race proven engine in the Mezger.

Of course there will always be people who like you feel cars have lost "value/worth" once prices jump. See my comment about the sudden jump in people selling once the 996 GT3 went to £65,000. Then there will be others who think there is more price increase to come and do not want to sell short or like many on here would not know what to replace their 'baby' with. I think that unfortunately cars just seem to get bigger and bigger as well as heavier and with more and more nannying electronics. Where are all the real drivers cars gone - ??? What I do not really get is that there is more use/availability of lighter materials - CFRP/ CF and Al yet cars are getting heavier and heavier (M2 1570kg/ M3 e46 1549kg - Google figures).

Pip

[Pip1968]

There is no bubble and it's not gonna burst, people need to except these prices are here to stay. When the 'bubble burst' last time people had to get out of cars quick which had to be discounted to pay the loaned money back. Cars at present are bought with hard earned cash, the people buying them CAN afford them as its toy money.

You'd have to be mad to sell a Csl at current prices as there's still no replacement for similar money.

I am sure there will be some adjustment in prices if interest rates ever climb back up to something around 5% or at least a premium on inflation. Why put your money in the bank when you are losing money in real terms - ? Admittedly it may not be big adjustment. £55-60,000 tied up in a car is a lot of money for most people when you could buy a nearly new M sport and have some money left over.

Pip

[SSS]

I am sure there will be some adjustment in prices if interest rates ever climb back up to something around 5% or at least a premium on inflation. Why put your money in the bank when you are losing money in real terms - ? Admittedly it may not be big adjustment. £55-60,000 tied up in a car is a lot of money for most people when you could buy a nearly new M sport and have some money left over.

Pip

Definitely worth keeping with the budget on Wednesday making money in the bank worthless

[Cosworth50]

The values have been over done.

Munich legends selling a 92k miles csl means a 92k mile private sale is c.£28-30k. Munich legends are the most reputable dealer that will warranty a car etc.

I don't care what anyone says but a csl at £70k is too dear. A 996 gt3 with true manual box is less for similar mileage so they've just gone too high at present.

lovely, lovely cars but prices have built in the past 12 months beyond expectations and I think they will fall back - plus many are tatty tracked examples.

A 997 turbo at 40k is cheaper, quicker, better badge etc

A new m4 is cheaper and quicker and better interior

If the bubble pops these 70k cars will halve in value very quickly

[nw99]

997 Turbo or M4 aren't limited .
CSL with limited build numbers will not depreciate much from here .
Also the CSL drives better than a 996 GT3 I've owned both.

[shimmy]

The values have been over done.

Munich legends selling a 92k miles csl means a 92k mile private sale is c.£28-30k. Munich legends are the most reputable dealer that will warranty a car etc.

I don't care what anyone says but a csl at £70k is too dear. A 996 gt3 with true manual box is less for similar mileage so they've just gone too high at present.

lovely, lovely cars but prices have built in the past 12 months beyond expectations and I think they will fall back - plus many are tatty tracked examples.

A 997 turbo at 40k is cheaper, quicker, better badge etc

A new m4 is cheaper and quicker and better interior

If the bubble pops these 70k cars will halve in value very quickly


can I guess you are still looking :supz:

[Cosworth50]

997 Turbo or M4 aren't limited .
CSL with limited build numbers will not depreciate much from here .
Also the CSL drives better than a 996 GT3 I've owned both.

It's objective isn't it.

Porsche gt3s are good cars and have always had a premium but now the csl has caught up.

I'd personally choose a Porsche 911 gt3 over a BMW csl or I'd choose a Ferrari f430 for that matter over a csl.

But, I don't have a csl so people would argue I would say this and people with them will talk up prices.

I'd have a csl for c.£30k but at prices as they are now I decided to buy something else that for me I felt was better value.

They are lovely cars so please don't think I'm saying they're not but the value isn't there any more imho.

[Cosworth50]

can I guess you are still looking :supz:

I bought something else instead that I felt was better value so no longer looking but still like the cars :)

[shimmy]

The values have been over done.

Munich legends selling a 92k miles csl means a 92k mile private sale is c.£28-30k. Munich legends are the most reputable dealer that will warranty a car etc.

I don't care what anyone says but a csl at £70k is too dear. A 996 gt3 with true manual box is less for similar mileage so they've just gone too high at present.

lovely, lovely cars but prices have built in the past 12 months beyond expectations and I think they will fall back - plus many are tatty tracked examples.

A 997 turbo at 40k is cheaper, quicker, better badge etc

A new m4 is cheaper and quicker and better interior

If the bubble pops these 70k cars will halve in value very quickly

trouble is, judging a cars value on it's speed or style of interior or even he badge isnt necessarily the best way to judge its value. the older they get, the less all that matters

ive no idea if prices will crash or not but what i do know is there are very few recent cars that have limited numbers and stick in the memory and desire of so many previous owners way after they have managed to go through a whole list of porsches, ferraris, etc. That sort of following sticks and grows as word develops. Im willing to bet that the CSL becomes the most sought after and valuable production car ever made by BMW loing after the F80 is used as a taxi, the 997turbo is the fav or every Luton bad boy and the E30 has rusted into the ground

[Marv968]

.

A 997 turbo at 40k is cheaper, quicker, better badge etc

A new m4 is cheaper and quicker and better interior

I haven't driven a 997 Turbo so can't comment on them, but I have driven an M4. I found it to be no where near as engaging to drive as a CSL. The M4 is more of a GT car, so it's not really comparing apples to apples.

[cslsuperfan]

The values have been over done.

Munich legends selling a 92k miles csl means a 92k mile private sale is c.£28-30k. Munich legends are the most reputable dealer that will warranty a car etc.

I don't care what anyone says but a csl at £70k is too dear. A 996 gt3 with true manual box is less for similar mileage so they've just gone too high at present.

lovely, lovely cars but prices have built in the past 12 months beyond expectations and I think they will fall back - plus many are tatty tracked examples.

A 997 turbo at 40k is cheaper, quicker, better badge etc

A new m4 is cheaper and quicker and better interior

If the bubble pops these 70k cars will halve in value very quickly


Where are you seeing these tatty csl's?

certainly not in the UK classifieds.

[nw99]

I own a 997 Turbo and the CSL.
Which car do I prefer to drive ? The CSL.
Which looks better the 997 Turbo .
Which is rarer the CSL.

[Matt21]

The values have been over done.

Munich legends selling a 92k miles csl means a 92k mile private sale is c.£28-30k. Munich legends are the most reputable dealer that will warranty a car etc.

I don't care what anyone says but a csl at £70k is too dear. A 996 gt3 with true manual box is less for similar mileage so they've just gone too high at present.

lovely, lovely cars but prices have built in the past 12 months beyond expectations and I think they will fall back - plus many are tatty tracked examples.

A 997 turbo at 40k is cheaper, quicker, better badge etc

A new m4 is cheaper and quicker and better interior

If the bubble pops these 70k cars will halve in value very quickly


Ok I'll take the bait. Only because I'm stuck in Chennai rush hour! All my opinion and in a friendly manner :)

The Munich Legends car was under priced. It's sold in hours, as did a similarly priced car on this forum with 116k. Munich Legends often sell cars by SOR and make about £2k (nw99 will know more than me!). Those two recent sales show that the price point for these cars are above £35k with this mileage, certainly not the £28-£30k you suggest

You say that you don't care what anyone says they are over priced. Says who? I guess you! This doesn't mean there is a crash coming. It's simple supply and demand, low mileage immaculate cars are few and far between and there are people willing to pay. Simple.

The Gt3 reference is flawed. Would I swap my CSL for an identical mileage and condition CSL? Probably yes. But like for like they are still £10k more, and are sold in much higher numbers than the CSL.

Tatty track examples? As already said where?! Yes most have seen a track but that bares no resemblance to condition unless someone buys it as a weekend track slag, and I'm sure GT3s are no different

The 997 Turbo point is also irrelevant. Yes there are cheaper, but totally different. They are great (just bought one) but more of a GT, almost mass production. I see a 997 Turbo almost daily. How often do you see a CSL on the road day to day? Yea they are faster but so what? Badge is irrelevant

M4 also a pointless reference point. My old M135i on paper was a match for the CSL, and frankly round a track with my limited driving expertise would be quicker. But again so what? there will be very few people faced with the dilemma of new M4 or used CSL. It's chalk and cheese. Same argument on 996 GT3 RS and 991 Turbo, and for that matter most other desirable "classics" vs their younger brothers.

Apart from the fact you think the bubble will burst (maybe cause you missed the boat!) what is there to suggest this will happen?

I'm no economist, but things are very different to the crash of the early 90s where people were financed up to their eye balls. You wait til US can buy these cars then watch prices!

All in all I am not naive enough to thing things will continue at the current rate, hence my thread. Yes maybe there will be a mild correction in the short term, but the case for prices holding far outweighs the crash case. I'm glad you have found another car, but please don't sit around for the £35k 20,000 miler. It will never happen! Out of interest what did you buy?

Anyway traffic finally moving. Some poor sod knocked off him motorbike which blocked the road. Looking forward to getting home and driving the CSL before that bubble bursts :thumbs:

[billyboysm3]

A car is worth what anyone is willing to pay.

A mint CSL will change hands without even being advertised on the forum.

If I still had a CSL I would be driving it everyday rather than keeping it on charge in the garage.

THEY ARE F**KING AWESOME CARS and even at todays prices you cannot buy anything like it.

[cslsuperfan]

A car is worth what anyone is willing to pay.

A mint CSL will change hands without even being advertised on the forum.

If I still had a CSL I would be driving it everyday rather than keeping it on charge in the garage.

THEY ARE F**KING AWESOME CARS and even at todays prices you cannot buy anything like it.


Agree 100% Billy, especially keeping the CSL on charge in the garage instead of driving her.

Just preserving the car for its next owner.

[MarcM]

trouble is, judging a cars value on it's speed or style of interior or even he badge isnt necessarily the best way to judge its value. the older they get, the less all that matters

ive no idea if prices will crash or not but what i do know is there are very few recent cars that have limited numbers and stick in the memory and desire of so many previous owners way after they have managed to go through a whole list of porsches, ferraris, etc. That sort of following sticks and grows as word develops. Im willing to bet that the CSL becomes the most sought after and valuable production car ever made by BMW loing after the F80 is used as a taxi, the 997turbo is the fav or every Luton bad boy and the E30 has rusted into the ground

Yup, agree. EVO Mag issue 219 has an article on the E46 M3 CS, still highly regarded and given 5 stars after all this time.

[Has csl]

I've had an E30 m3 Evo I, porsche 993 c2 with modded suspension and exhaust, a porsche 964 with a 3.8L engine. None of the cars above matches the CSL in terms of handling, balance and speed. All the above had their merits, but what happened was, I sold the CSL in between owning the porkers, and bought the CSL back. And now Matilda is in showroom condition. Sometimes I look to see what I could replace her with, but there is nothing out there that won't feel mass produced and with rarity kudos of the CSL. As long as there are petrol heads, the CSL will always be regarded as one of the greats. All in my humble opinion off course.

[cslsuperfan]

trouble is, judging a cars value on it's speed or style of interior or even he badge isnt necessarily the best way to judge its value. the older they get, the less all that matters

ive no idea if prices will crash or not but what i do know is there are very few recent cars that have limited numbers and stick in the memory and desire of so many previous owners way after they have managed to go through a whole list of porsches, ferraris, etc. That sort of following sticks and grows as word develops. Im willing to bet that the CSL becomes the most sought after and valuable production car ever made by BMW loing after the F80 is used as a taxi, the 997turbo is the fav or every Luton bad boy and the E30 has rusted into the ground

Shim

post of the week!! :smokin:

Prediction for when the CSL reaches this status?

Only I'm getting the 6 year itch and would hate to miss out!!!