M4 vs CSL

[Clubber]

Interesting video,

http://www.wheelsmag.com.au/features/1508/digital-or-analogue-bmw-m4-vs-m3-csl/

[Loaded]

CSL for ever. Even with the Evo Magazine, when they've tested the then new M3 E92 GTS..the magazine's people didn't even put the GTS in a comparison test with the M3 CSL which was in the hangar..

[Rick H]

Let the fun begin . . . .

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1165834

[J77]

A good fun vid that.

[select]

Wow, i am quite surprised how well the CSL did in the drag race.

I have to say the M4 is not a bad car at all. If you need to have a sportscoupe with all the modern gadgetry, the M4 is the car to take imho. But it begs the question, do you really need all that stuff in car like this?
I just wish it would have stayed Naturally Aspirated, but its understandable with the current EU idiocy going on.

Great Video, thanks for sharing

[glendog74]

Wow, i am quite surprised how well the CSL did in the drag race.

I have to say the M4 is not a bad car at all. If you need to have a sportscoupe with all the modern gadgetry, the M4 is the car to take imho. But it begs the question, do you really need all that stuff in car like this?
I just wish it would have stayed Naturally Aspirated, but its understandable with the current EU idiocy going on.

Great Video, thanks for sharing

+1 thanks Can :thumbs:

[0836whimper]

Enjoyed that, thanks for link.

[cslsuperfan]

Great vid Clubber

M4 is a stunning car and worthy to sit alongside it's grandfather.

Sunroof though.....really.

[Clubber]

Your welcome guys, I'm glad you all enjoyed it. I can't get enough of watching CSL's anyway :)

[streightsix]

Enjoyed that, thanks for link.
+1 great vid...

[outnumbered]

Good fun, thanks for posting

[estoril]

Great review, I also went over and looked at the thread on bimmerpost to see the reactions (didn't get all the way through though), then wondered about lap times:

94. BMW M3 CSL 7:50.00 158 '03 360 / 1385 Horst von Saurma

101. BMW M4 7:52.00 157 '14 431 / 1497 Horst von Saurma

11 years apart but the same driver.....

still pretty impressive!

source: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

[Clubber]

Great review, I also went over and looked at the thread on bimmerpost to see the reactions (didn't get all the way through though), then wondered about lap times:

94. BMW M3 CSL 7:50.00 158 '03 360 / 1385 Horst von Saurma

101. BMW M4 7:52.00 157 '14 431 / 1497 Horst von Saurma

11 years apart but the same driver.....

still pretty impressive!

source: http://fastestlaps.com/tracks/nordschleife.html

Very impressive but CSL was on cups and M4 wasn't if I remember correctly. As we all know very well, that makes a huge difference.

[Trawler]

Very impressive but CSL was on cups and M4 wasn't if I remember correctly. As we all know very well, that makes a huge difference.

Doesn't the M4 run on cup 2s? The ones I have seen are running them

[shane@mbtech]

Doesn't the M4 run on cup 2s? The ones I have seen are running them

Pilot super sports


Also 11 years is pretty impressive, but Horst gets into the cars using his Zimmer frame now. :blalalala:

[Yanto]

Pilot super sports


Also 11 years is pretty impressive, but Horst gets into the cars using his Zimmer frame now. :blalalala:

Great vid.

Shane, you got a new motor you wanna tell us abt ???:smokin:

[JB_CSL]

I took both of my cars out to the track to see what was what when it comes to straight line speed and there was an M4 out there on the day as well.

Its pretty close, you just cant compete with the torque they generate down low with the turbo's with a rolling start they just have the ability to pull away then keep it growing slowly. My 335i walks on the CSL with e30 and the JB4 in it.

That said coming into the corners with less weight and much better brakes the CSL is the more complete unit. I mean can you really beat the noise!

[shane@mbtech]

Great vid.

Shane, you got a new motor you wanna tell us abt ???:smokin:

Its not as interesting as the CSL Ian:beer:

[empower]

Dumb video just for marketing.
Compare the m3 CSL to the Porsche 911's of its era.
Then have the balls to compare the m4 to the Porsche 911's of this era.

[Trawler]

Dumb video just for marketing.
Compare the m3 CSL to the Porsche 911's of its era.
Then have the balls to compare the m4 to the Porsche 911's of this era.

Csl beat 996gt3 in many reviews. :thumbs: Would be interesting to see how M4 would stack up against latest gr3. I think we know the answer.

[Trawler]

Csl beat 996gt3 in many reviews. :thumbs: Would be interesting to see how M4 would stack up against latest gr3. I think we know the answer.

Bigger boot, 4 seats, etc & the M4 wins.

[Loaded]

Just saw that. I believe BMW guys in Munich have started to destroy themselves and company's reputation.

Dislike.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1167857


http://i.imgur.com/905N6Kl.jpg

[alexk]

Just saw that. I believe BMW guys in Munich have started to destroy themselves and company's reputation.

Dislike.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1167857


http://i.imgur.com/905N6Kl.jpg

What do you mean ?

[cslsuperfan]

The vid is a bit of fun, nothing more.

The die hard M4 nut was willing to accept the raw experience of the CSL and did give it some praise....in the end.

I remember seeing the RS (Focus 2007 shape) Club pitch up @ the ring for some tourist laps. No one batted a eye as they all breathed fire and disappeared up the circuit.

Couple of hours later the RS500 Cosworth UK club pitched up and everyone wanted to get a pic and have a chat to the owners.

M4vCSL all over. :smokin:

[select]

Just saw that. I believe BMW guys in Munich have started to destroy themselves and company's reputation.

Dislike.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1167857


I think the M4 CSL, if it even materialises, will not be in the same prize range as the M3 CSL/GTS. From what i've gathered the upcoming GTS will be around the same price as the last GTS but the CSL will cost quite a bit more.

I am curious to see what BMW does with the CSL moniker in the future.
From what i see they are using it as a means of testing out experimental stuff (hybrid, kers etc).


The vid is a bit of fun, nothing more.

The die hard M4 nut was willing to accept the raw experience of the CSL and did give it some praise....in the end.


Someone had to play the "M4 Nut", else their "storyline" wouldn't have worked. Probably decided with a game of tic-tac-toe :hahaha:

[Loaded]

What do you mean ?

I mean Alex that BMW have losted a little bit with the marketing and sale..and for that reasons have started to make car which in my opinion are useless (like the M4 CSL) and the only thing that they care for is profit. They forget driver's pleasure etc. I belong with those who admit that BMW stopped in the E46 series. I didn't like the M4. Of course it has to do with the taste but..i can't find a reason to make a new platform and name it M4. I would prefer an F80 M3 coupe and sedan version than this ugly M4. Again, i only speak for myself but after a long conversations with other guys who own M3 E92, GTS and M3 e46s they said me that the conclusion after they bought the M4 was to sell it and go buck to an E92 M3.

And don't forget that the badge 'CSL' sells more that any other badge in BMW past and recent history. Even more that the 'GTS'..

[empower]

Just saw that. I believe BMW guys in Munich have started to destroy themselves and company's reputation.

Dislike.

http://f80.bimmerpost.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1167857


Way too confusing these days with so many 'Motorsport' models. Taking the panache out of precisely what "Motorsport' stood for. It seems every German manufacturer is riding on the sales wave of special predecessor models.

Maybe its time AC Schnitzer, Hamman, or some tuning giant take the lead of AC Shelby and just improve an M car better than BMW 'stock M" models?

[empower]

I mean Alex that BMW have losted a little bit with the marketing and sale..and for that reasons have started to make car which in my opinion are useless (like the M4 CSL) and the only thing that they care for is profit. They forget driver's pleasure etc. I belong with those who admit that BMW stopped in the E46 series. I didn't like the M4. Of course it has to do with the taste but..i can't find a reason to make a new platform and name it M4. I would prefer an F80 M3 coupe and sedan version than this ugly M4. Again, i only speak for myself but after a long conversations with other guys who own M3 E92, GTS and M3 e46s they said me that the conclusion after they bought the M4 was to sell it and go buck to an E92 M3.

And don't forget that the badge 'CSL' sells more that any other badge in BMW past and recent history. Even more that the 'GTS'..

Also don't forget the badge CSL has sold more "PARTS" than any other BMW individual model

[Rick H]

M4 GTS or BAC Mono ?

[LeinsCSL]

Way too confusing these days with so many 'Motorsport' models. Taking the panache out of precisely what "Motorsport' stood for. It seems every German manufacturer is riding on the sales wave of special predecessor models.

Maybe its time AC Schnitzer, Hamman, or some tuning giant take the lead of AC Shelby and just improve an M car better than BMW 'stock M" models?

Alpina B4 GT3, whenever they get around to making one?

[empower]

Alpina B4 GT3, whenever they get around to making one?

Oh yeah Alpina! :drool: what are they waiting for in this cashed up era?!

[MisterCorn]

Oh yeah Alpina! :drool: what are they waiting for in this cashed up era?!

There is no cashing in for the manufacturers. It Is secondhand prices which have gone nuts. See Cayman GT4 and 991 GT3 RS.

MC

[Loaded]

Way too confusing these days with so many 'Motorsport' models. Taking the panache out of precisely what "Motorsport' stood for. It seems every German manufacturer is riding on the sales wave of special predecessor models.

Maybe its time AC Schnitzer, Hamman, or some tuning giant take the lead of AC Shelby and just improve an M car better than BMW 'stock M" models?

I would say that exactly. Maybe Schnitzer and Hamman and other companies are better in tuning specific BMW M models and not only. From personal experience i can say that Manhart does a better work from M Gmb. At least on my 1M.


Also don't forget the badge CSL has sold more "PARTS" than any other BMW individual model

Exactly this.
M4 GTS or BAC Mono ?


BAC of course. You don't have to negotiate it. Briggs brothers did an amazing work with the car.

[empower]

There is no cashing in for the manufacturers. It Is secondhand prices which have gone nuts. See Cayman GT4 and 991 GT3 RS.

MC

I tend to disagree, imagine if Alpina got hold of a an 1M, M3, M4, M5 went back to basics and just made the bloody thing RAW as start by:
- lose all the unnecessary electronics, and gizmos,
- lowered the centre of mass,
- p54 b32 engine with water injection :drool:
- slightly better downforce on the rear...

Are you telling me they wouldn't have buyers queuing up?

[alexk]

I would be happy with an M5 V8 in my CSL.
But then trailers, deposits in the Customs etc etc.

[Loaded]

I would be happy with an M5 V8 in my CSL.
But then trailers, deposits in the Customs etc etc.

You mean the S62? Like the M3 E46 GTR right? Ok, i will agree that the specific conversion is really great BUT i wouldn't do that on my CSL. Maybe in a usual M3 E46. First you 'destroy' a rare car and secondly you change totally the car's original road behavior. More weight on the front axle.

[alexk]

No.. the S63TU

[mattCSLnut]

I would be happy with an M5 V8 in my CSL.

Sacrilegious thinking ;)

[Loaded]

No.. the S63TU

Seriously? The new M5's? A turbo one? I don't know about the cooling in the E46.

[alexk]

Indeed.
It would be very funny overtaking the 991 turbos and Nissan GTRs...

[Mike R]

Could do that with the S65 4.4litre GTS engine - can be easily tuned to 500PS and even combined with the DCT box, due to the S65 being all alloy (it is actually lighter than the S54) it would be no heavier than the standard set-up.

If I win the lottery, that is instantly what I will be doing :bigcry: :thumbs:.

I would then go Porsche GT3 hunting ;).

[alexk]

S65..... yawns

[Mike R]

S65..... yawns

It can rev to nearly 9k safely, which is in keeping with the frenetic nature of the S54 :blalalala:.

The new M5 engine revs like a diseaslel by comparison - now THAT is a big yawn ;).

Also the torque would over power the tyres in every gear in the CSL due to the fact that it no longer had nearly 2 tonnes to move around, so it would probably be slow than the S54 on track ;).

[MisterCorn]

Let's face it. The M3 CSL is pretty much the perfect combination of weight, power, and tractability. You have one, so enjoy it :)

Of all the cars I have owned this one has exceeded my expectations more than any other. Like living the dream, but better.

MC

[Loaded]

Let's face it. The M3 CSL is pretty much the perfect combination of weight, power, and tractability. You have one, so enjoy it :)

+1000

[cslsuperfan]

Let's face it. The M3 CSL is pretty much the perfect combination of weight, power, and tractability. You have one, so enjoy it :)

Of all the cars I have owned this one has exceeded my expectations more than any other. Like living the dream, but better.

MC


I take it your not including 997 GT3/RS or have you owned one?

The CSL is a capable car but it's not and never will oust a GT3/RS.

Value for money then no argument the cesil is on top.

[alexk]

It can rev to nearly 9k safely, which is in keeping with the frenetic nature of the S54 :blalalala:.

The new M5 engine revs like a diseaslel by comparison - now THAT is a big yawn ;).

Also the torque would over power the tyres in every gear in the CSL due to the fact that it no longer had nearly 2 tonnes to move around, so it would probably be slow than the S54 on track ;).

Mike... 8k+ i not the world.
The M5 engine revs 7.5k and it revs there much faster than any S65 will ever do.

Also disagree about the over-power issue to the tyres. You can always put wider tyres etc etc.
It would definitely definitely be faster.

[shane@mbtech]

Mike... 8k+ i not the world.
The M5 engine revs 7.5k and it revs there much faster than any S65 will ever do.

Also disagree about the over-power issue to the tyres. You can always put wider tyres etc etc.
It would definitely definitely be faster.

I'm with Mike, Alex. The torque would be too much and the GTS engine would be much better suited.

[MisterCorn]

I take it your not including 997 GT3/RS or have you owned one?

The CSL is a capable car but it's not and never will oust a GT3/RS.

Value for money then no argument the cesil is on top.

I have driven a friends 996.1 GT3 CS. But not enough or hard enough to form a meaningful comparison. I generally include value-for-money in my car choices. I should have made that clear. I have driven with a well driven track-prepared 997 GT3 through France. I was in my 996 turbo and it was interesting that there was nothing between us, on the roads he couldn't push hard through the corners as he didn't know what was around them, and with an extra 200hp I destroyed him on the straights. I wouldn't see him for dust on the track, but I drive on the road.

MC

[alexk]

I'm with Mike, Alex. The torque would be too much and the GTS engine would be much better suited.

Possibly you are right guys as I see the M5 spins the wheels even with 4th - no problem.

[Clubber]

Here is another entertaining video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZXxegCoIOmw

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/ZXxegCoIOmw" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[estoril]

Great video!

[Trawler]

And the best sounding car was?

[Clubber]

And the best sounding car was?

Of course the SG one ;)

[mattCSLnut]

And the best sounding car was?

Need U ask ? ;) :smokin:

M3 Cecil is the only one you can hear flying toward you :smt055 proper Hoonigan :supz:
Most of the others are near silent until they go past :whistle:

[cslsuperfan]

Need U ask ? ;) :smokin:

M3 Cecil is the only one you can hear flying toward you :smt055 proper Hoonigan :supz:
Most of the others are near silent until they go past :whistle:


M1 sounded good too :thumbs:

[select]

The M1 easily takes the Exhaust Sound Crown but it lacks the induction noise of the CSL.
Either way, would love to have an M1 alongside the CSL :smt055

The E60 M5 just needs a better exhaust, you can hear that v10 wail when it passes by but its too muted.


Great Video albeit it's missing the 850CSI. :banghead:


Oh yeah Alpina! :drool: what are they waiting for in this cashed up era?!

There has been a M3 GTS equivalent from Alpina, called the B3 GT3 which in my opinion wasn't that brilliant compared to the GTS.
Automatic Transmission in a track car? :bigcry: