SG NO OPTIONS CSL 17950 Miles

[nickjohnson]

I bought this CSL from its third owner in 2010 with 16000 miles on for about £4000 less than what you would pay for an A/C model at the time (£28500)
I was told by the third owner there were only 15 no options cars made which I later found after I sold it the second time around that this was a lot less.
I sold it a week later for £31500 to one of my most memorable clients who at the time was 82 year old and also in ownership of a short wheel base Quattro sport ( Recently advertised on Classic and Sports cars for £495000 ) and series 1 GT3 996. Last year at 86 John decided he wanted a Vantage V12 so asked me to come and collect the car and was happy to take roughly what I sold it to him for :supz:
Like an E30 Evo Sport or Stradale the examples that become most desirable are the ones truest to the original concept. The launch poster for the CSL says "100% Muscle, 0 % Fat" so an extra 50 KGs of weight makes a full spec car a lardy piece of lardy cake!!! unlike the spec which posted the original official time round the ring of 7:50 by a no options LHD car.

Not sure if I dreamt this but are LHD CSLs supposed to be slightly quicker due to the exhaust manifolding needing to be changed to allow for the seat on the right and the steering column meaning slightly decreased flow?

Anyways I then sold it to a chap who stored it with me until now and hasnt even driven it!!!!! It covered 700 miles with its now 87 year old owner. in which time it had an inspection 2 service and brand new PS2s which are still 7.5 mm . We also had the subframes fixed by BMW Oxford ,which Id imagine was down to the 87 year boy racer launching it everywhere he went......just kidding although not about the subframe as that's no laughing matter ;)

PDI 10/11/04
Running in service BMW 462miles 11/04
oil service BMW 10505miles 4/07
insp 1 BMW/Mini service centre 16124 10/09
insp 2 BMW 17394 4/12
oil BMW 17866 6/14

Subframe fixed with pictures May 2014

I also have pictures of the humidity controlled 500 year old barn the car was stored in whilst with John LLoyd who would be happy to talk about the car with any potential owner which I think helps to make everything a little more special as he, along with the services and paperwork, are part of the cars history.

So any thoughts on what I should sell it for?
I must also say Ive been involved with a good majority of the very low mileage CSLs sold in the UK over the past few years and none have as good history as this with about 7 out of the 10 sub 15000 mile cars having only had a running-in service and one other service and some of the sub 10000 mile cars Ive sold have only had their running in service done and nothing after that :banghead:

I hope this car stays in this country too so ermmmmmmm maybe lets get a few people together and each put in £10000 and rap it up in a bubble until its 20th birthday and worth ( Doctor Evil finger to lips ) 1 MILLION DOLLARS!!!!! sorry about that:whistle:

So I don't think its too out of the way to think that CSLs will be £50000 to £150000 with in 5 to 10 years . If you'd have told an E30 Evo Sport owner 10 years ago that his £15000 car would be worth £50000 in ten years they would have tilted their heads like a confused dog and stared blankly at you...... now theyre £100000 so CSLs doubling in the next ten years doesn't seem out of the question :thumbs:

[nw99]

Would imagine it would sell for £85k

[SMD]

Is this my old option less ca i sold in 2009 with 11k miles?
http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1738


I bought the car originally from Neil the forum founder.

Cheers

[shimmy]

Is this my old option less ca i sold in 2009 with 11k miles?
http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1738


I bought the car originally from Neil the forum founder.

Cheers

thats gotta slash its value :bigcry:


nice car NIck, hope it sells for £100k

[Scott]

Nick, sounds like you have a car with a great story behind it and one that would put any new owner at ease. I would suggest that if the condition matches the history then you should be advertising it for £99,000. I can't see another car like that coming up for sale and I know for a fact the other optionless car has more than double the miles :whistle:

[Yanto]

Depends who you ask :hahaha:

Does sound nice though. Be interesting to see how it fares. GLWS :thumbs:

[nw99]

Any pictures we can look at Nick

[MCSL]

My 2p from recent experience..

5 owner. 18k miles. 80-90% service history. I'd of thought starting with a 7 - possibly 75k will snap it up quickly

These cars are moving up in value - FACT. They are becoming very safe cars - it's virtually a given (at worst case scenario) you can buy, use, and not lose a penny. At best - after expenses - still get a return on your money. I think (and from talking to a few people-in-the-know recently) that CSL's values will increase somewhere between 10-15% over the next 12-18 months.

If in rush to sell chance it at 79k - I don't think you'll get many bites or nibbles over this.

GLWS :beer:

[bryce]

Well there is obviously a bit of debate on the 1 of 3 (maybe two now?) Optionless cars but what I would say Nick is, you have no other car on the market - and wont have either - that is comparable to what you have just now. Thus, if you don't try you don't get...

I reckon it'll end up in Hong Kong, as those boys don't fuck about

[cslgirl]

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/e46-m3-00-06/e46-m3-csl-lhd/3774830

Wonder how much this one is up for? Anyone know?

[stradman]

Well my thoughts are what would you compare it to at the moment? Maybe a 996 GT3? I think that a similar low mileage 18k mile 996 GT3 would maybe be 80k max. Honestly that would probably the collectors choice at that money. I think that 60k Nick for that CSL would probably be more reasonable..... I cannot it see it selling for more.....But hey if you can, then GLWS!

[glendog74]

Well my thoughts are what would you compare it to at the moment? Maybe a 996 GT3? I think that a similar low mileage 18k mile 996 GT3 would maybe be 80k max. Honestly that would probably the collectors choice at that money. I think that 60k Nick for that CSL would probably be more reasonable..... I cannot it see it selling for more.....But hey if you can, then GLWS!

Agreed.

[Das Chin]

As long as all the parts on it are from the car...and not found their way onto another car.....

[bryce]

Do you honestly think the collector has to choose between the two...

[stradman]

Do you honestly think the collector has to choose between the two...
In this new world of classic car collecting as it has evolved, not all collectors have the luxury of buying cars 2 at a time, if that's what you mean..

[nw99]

Well my thoughts are what would you compare it to at the moment? Maybe a 996 GT3? I think that a similar low mileage 18k mile 996 GT3 would maybe be 80k max. Honestly that would probably the collectors choice at that money. I think that 60k Nick for that CSL would probably be more reasonable..... I cannot it see it selling for more.....But hey if you can, then GLWS!

I just paid more than that for 6,250 mile car maybe I have overpaid then !

[stradman]

I just paid more than that for 6,250 mile car maybe I have overpaid then !
Yes but you didn't read what I said. 18k, 80kGBP...not 6250 miles. 6250 I am sure would be more than 80k. Maybe 90-100 then??

[nw99]

Yes but you didn't read what I said. 18k, 80kGBP...not 6250 miles. 6250 I am sure would be more than 80k. Maybe 90-100 then??

I wish it was ;)

[duktail]

Nick, I sent you a PM

[Touring]

No options cars are a very limited market, most buyers seem to prefer air-con particularly for Euro hoons and track days. Whilst 18,000 miles is low, it's not sufficiently low to warranty a significant premium (IMO). £60k would be very strong money for a car such as this. Ultimately it's worth what someone is prepared to pay - based on recent sales of sub 10,000 mile cars I believe this car's value to be in the mid 50s £k. IIRC it sold for slightly less than this 12 months ago.

[shimmy]

No options cars are a very limited market, most buyers seem to prefer air-con particularly for Euro hoons and track days. Whilst 18,000 miles is low, it's not sufficiently low to warranty a significant premium (IMO). £60k would be very strong money for a car such as this. Ultimately it's worth what someone is prepared to pay - based on recent sales of sub 10,000 mile cars I believe this car's value to be in the mid 50s £k. IIRC it sold for slightly less than this 12 months ago.

However it's a strange world and people do strange things :)

[bryce]

I still maintain this car is for a collector and he'll want the purest version. He won't give a damn about air con when it's sitting in a bubble - I sure as hell don't with the mileage and usage my car gets.

[mattCSLnut]

I still maintain this car is for a collector and he'll want the purest version. He won't give a damn about air con when it's sitting in a bubble - I sure as hell don't with the mileage and usage my car gets.

As bias opinions go ;) you're right on the money :thumbs:

I also wonder what potential buyers will think of the less then perfect service history of that car with it's "Running In" service being done way too early meaning the cars engine may not have been run in as BMW intend and the scheduled servicing which falls outside the recommended 2 year intervals, on more than one occasion.

[stradman]

I still maintain this car is for a collector and he'll want the purest version. He won't give a damn about air con when it's sitting in a bubble - I sure as hell don't with the mileage and usage my car gets.

Isn't it strange that a collector, someone who never uses the car, would care whether they had a 20kg lighter car or not? I mean he's never going to use it and most certainly won't gain any physical benefit from the delete option anyway(not that you could actually tell). I also think that in this context, particularly for a CSL with no air con and stereo, but with power windows:hahaha:, to somehow be called "purest" version is nonsense really.....I think that is overstretching the term "pure". But that's just my opinion.:supz:

[cslsuperfan]

Isn't it strange that a collector, someone who never uses the car, would care whether they had a 20kg lighter car or not? I mean he's never going to use it and most certainly won't gain any physical benefit from the delete option anyway(not that you could actually tell). I also think that in this context, particularly for a CSL with no air con and stereo, but with power windows:hahaha:, to somehow be called "purest" version is nonsense really.....I think that is overstretching the term "pure". But that's just my opinion.:supz:


This car will be purchased by a collector as pure investment...plain and simple.

Sadly this car will not be bought with the intention of driver enjoyment.

As previously stated, the history being established, the car will go into a carcoon. Here ends the story.

[billyboysm3]

Boring!

[bryce]

Isn't it strange that a collector, someone who never uses the car, would care whether they had a 20kg lighter car or not? I mean he's never going to use it and most certainly won't gain any physical benefit from the delete option anyway(not that you could actually tell). I also think that in this context, particularly for a CSL with no air con and stereo, but with power windows:hahaha:, to somehow be called "purest" version is nonsense really.....I think that is overstretching the term "pure". But that's just my opinion.:supz:

Still not getting it are you. It's got nothIng to do with weight saving. It's got nothing to do with creature comforts or lack or creature comforts. Yup, electric windows but that's the purest it came with. I don't think service history (run in service early) actually matters either.

This cars destined for a bubble and storage for 20+ years as the purest and closest to original design.

Ps. I'm just trying to justify my leggy optionless car as you are your legless fatty ;)

[stradman]

Still not getting it are you. It's got nothIng to do with weight saving. It's got nothing to do with creature comforts or lack or creature comforts. Yup, electric windows but that's the purest it came with. I don't think service history (run in service early) actually matters either.

This cars destined for a bubble and storage for 20+ years as the purest and closest to original design.

Ps. I'm just trying to justify my leggy optionless car as you are your legless fatty ;)
Ah, but mine comes with out the xenons! so Im nearly half way there to being.....pure!!:beer:

[LHutchin]

Has this car been advertised yet? :)

[mattCSLnut]

Still not getting it are you. It's got nothIng to do with weight saving. It's got nothing to do with creature comforts or lack or creature comforts. Yup, electric windows but that's the purest it came with. I don't think service history (run in service early) actually matters either.

This cars destined for a bubble and storage for 20+ years as the purest and closest to original design.

Ps. I'm just trying to justify my leggy optionless car as you are your legless fatty ;)

I suppose it won't matter much to someone who's not going to drive the car properly... if at all :banghead:
However, a genuine "M" car collector/enthusiast will know the original engine hasn't been run in properly :whistle:

[nw99]

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/e46-m3-00-06/bmw-m3-csl-18000-miles-1-of-only-3-no-options-csls-made-for-the-uk/4223483

[Neil M]

Less is obviously more? :whistle:

[LHutchin]

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/e46-m3-00-06/bmw-m3-csl-18000-miles-1-of-only-3-no-options-csls-made-for-the-uk/4223483

I'll have two! :hahaha:

[nw99]

I'll have two! :hahaha:

Yes wasn't planning on paying that much !

[LHutchin]

Yes wasn't planning on paying that much !

Me neither, plus was wondering if the lack of AC would be a problem for the occasional trip into Europe

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Me neither, plus was wondering if the lack of AC would be a problem for the occasional trip into Europe

As long as the windows would, better for hearing the noise the cars make :thumbs:

[cslsuperfan]

listen

I have a plan

lets all strip out xenons,aircon,radio and hey presto you've just added £50K to the value!!!!

£80K............Sorry but that's bollox.

PS I'm only bitter due do previously owning 2 sub 10K csl's.

[steveH]

Quote fro Ad
The most special and rare of all the CSL models
Only three 'No Options' cars were produced for the UK market


Hi, can you fonts of all CSL knowledge clarify exactly what constitutes a
"No Options" CSL ??

I ask as from the build sheet for my car it states order options which includes:-
alarm system, warning triangle, alloys, main battery switch, handbook amongst others

Then it has the Series Options which includes:-
dynamic stability control, anti dim interior mirror, on-board computer, individual high gloss satin chrome, white direction indicator lights, SMG drivelogic & lanuguage English

So No A/C, No Zenons, No Radio / CD, No parking sensors (just one fat B4574 'd who occasionally drives it)

Does this make mine a "No Option" CSL too ??

Perhaps I am the mystry one who would not sell for £100k too ???

[Yanto]

Quote fro Ad
The most special and rare of all the CSL models
Only three 'No Options' cars were produced for the UK market


Hi, can you fonts of all CSL knowledge clarify exactly what constitutes a
"No Options" CSL ??

I ask as from the build sheet for my car it states order options which includes:-
alarm system, warning triangle, alloys, main battery switch, handbook amongst others

Then it has the Series Options which includes:-
dynamic stability control, anti dim interior mirror, on-board computer, individual high gloss satin chrome, white direction indicator lights, SMG drivelogic & lanuguage English

So No A/C, No Zenons, No Radio / CD, No parking sensors (just one fat B4574 'd who occasionally drives it)

Does this make mine a "No Option" CSL too ??

Perhaps I am the mystry one who would not sell for £100k too ???

Sorry, no. Carrying a warning triangle was not how BMW originally intended the car to be used. It's now worth 2p along with all the other "regular" CSL Luxo-barges :)

[NBTBRV8]

Quote fro Ad
The most special and rare of all the CSL models
Only three 'No Options' cars were produced for the UK market


Hi, can you fonts of all CSL knowledge clarify exactly what constitutes a
"No Options" CSL ??

I ask as from the build sheet for my car it states order options which includes:-
alarm system, warning triangle, alloys, main battery switch, handbook amongst others

Then it has the Series Options which includes:-
dynamic stability control, anti dim interior mirror, on-board computer, individual high gloss satin chrome, white direction indicator lights, SMG drivelogic & lanuguage English

So No A/C, No Zenons, No Radio / CD, No parking sensors (just one fat B4574 'd who occasionally drives it)

Does this make mine a "No Option" CSL too ??

Perhaps I am the mystry one who would not sell for £100k too ???

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8901

[NBTBRV8]

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/e46-m3-00-06/bmw-m3-csl-18000-miles-1-of-only-3-no-options-csls-made-for-the-uk/4223483

But it isn't! It now has the option of cup wheels fitted, so it is no longer "pure".

[cslsuperfan]

Sorry, no. Carrying a warning triangle was not how BMW originally intended the car to be used. It's now worth 2p along with all the other "regular" CSL Luxo-barges :)


If Frankie Howard was still with us he'd be using your material :hahaha:

[Neil M]

All the selectable options that were originally available, are listed in the 'Owners' section..!

Personally I don't understand the hype, why would the cheapest CSL to buy, be worth more than the most expensive CSL with all options fitted? :whistle:

The ad suggests that it's as BMW intended (a race bread M3 for the road) prompts the question - is it delimited? If not, then so much for being pure! ;)

[MisterCorn]

All the selectable options that were originally available, are listed in the 'Owners' section..!

Personally I don't understand the hype, why would the cheapest CSL to buy, be worth more than the most expensive CSL with all options fitted? :whistle:

The ad suggests that it's as BMW intended (a race bread M3 for the road) prompts the question - is it delimited? If not, then so much for being pure! ;)

Being delimited was an option wasn't it? Either it is a no option car, or it has the options to make it as lightweight and track focussed as possible. I would go for delimited and a badge delete :hahaha:

It is nonsense, but if I was selling one and trying to squeeze maximum money from it then I would probably believe it all too.

MC

[LeinsCSL]

I think it's definitely worth that to get a no-option car! Someone needs to buy this fast

(When it sells I might have a different opinion though ;))

[LHutchin]

I do find it ironic that a poverty spec car is now worth the most

[MarcM]

Excuse me for being a dumb ass but why has it had the subframe replaced at that mileage? Who was the previous owner? Stig? Suppose he is out a job now hence the sale

[LeinsCSL]

Excuse me for being a dumb ass but why has it had the subframe replaced at that mileage? Who was the previous owner? Stig? Suppose he is out a job now hence the sale

Maybe it was just a preventative "fix", as in strengthened, instead of having to be replaced due to cracks?

[Yanto]

Excuse me for being a dumb ass but why has it had the subframe replaced at that mileage? Who was the previous owner? Stig? Suppose he is out a job now hence the sale

Convinced this is an age thing rather than use thing. Many have been replaced in last couple of years regardless of mileage.

[XPorker]

Convinced this is an age thing rather than use thing. Many have been replaced in last couple of years regardless of mileage.


Let me guess, the fact that the majority of cars have reached the end of their 10 year warranty period within the last coupe of years has nothing to do with it at all ?

But let's get this straight, you really think a piece of pressed mild steel just cracks with age ? No kind of continuous stressing resulting in fatigue is required ?

[Yanto]

Let me guess, the fact that the majority of cars have reached the end of their 10 year warranty period within the last coupe of years has nothing to do with it at all ?

But let's get this straight, you really think a piece of pressed mild steel just cracks with age ? No kind of continuous stressing resulting in fatigue is required ?

I just look at the facts...

Cars with 15k to 80k miles all driven differently happen to start cracking over a 2 yr (ish) period for the first time. What about the early cars that got hammered in the first 3 years? Were we talking about fooked sub frames in 2006?

But I defer to your expertise......

[nw99]

Just had mine checked . Still like they were when new I was told.

[Yanto]

Ok, for avoidance of doubt. Yes, of course the way the car is driven (and associated stresses) will have an influence. BUT, I don't believe this is the unique cause. There must be an age factor for reasons mentioned.

[MarcM]

Ok, for avoidance of doubt. Yes, of course the way the car is driven (and associated stresses) will have an influence. BUT, I don't believe this is the unique cause. There must be an age factor for reasons mentioned.

Fair play. Was never quite sure the reasons myself; age, use, mileage. I bought mine not giving too much off a shit about the boot floor having been done or not. If it goes I'll fix it!

It's one of those will it? Won't it? I do sometimes think 'what the f#*k is that noise?' but think that reflects our roads and vehicle enthusiast's paranoia I think.

Before I got mine was told boot floor was all clear (which goes for nothing), been at dealership 4 times since with nowt mentioned.

[mattCSLnut]

Just had mine checked . Still like they were when new I was told.
Did they (who ever checked it) put that in writing ? :whistle:

[cslsuperfan]

Fair play. Was never quite sure the reasons myself; age, use, mileage. I bought mine not giving too much off a shit about the boot floor having been done or not. If it goes I'll fix it!

It's one of those will it? Won't it? I do sometimes think 'what the f#*k is that noise?' but think that reflects our roads and vehicle enthusiast's paranoia I think.

Before I got mine was told boot floor was all clear (which goes for nothing), been at dealership 4 times since with nowt mentioned.


There's night and day between technicians across the BMW dealer network.

Mine was checked at Dealer X and given the all clear.

8 weeks later on an Insp1 Gareth @ Elms found subframe issues...

[still no worries]

Low mileage has got to be a good thing regardless of service history surly! (Ok I don't mean no history)

[nw99]

Did they (who ever checked it) put that in writing ? :whistle:

Yes BMW did and a recent Check by An independent confirmed it .

[Trawler]

Thought I would ask someone who knows a little about the subject of steel & supports.

Hope I repeat this correctly. The problem we are experiencing is related to fatique life not how old the car is. The area in question is being exposed to loading & unloading. The magnitude & frequency will affect the fatique life. So theoretically if the life is 1000 cycles at a given load once this is reached the material will crack. If we expose the car to 900 in its first year & then 10 each year for the next ten years the failure will occur after 11 years. 500 each year then the life is two years. If the loading/unloading is higher or lower it will affect the fatique life exponentially. Interestingly he also said the SMG is also probably contributing to the fatique life. He wanted to see pics of how everything is supported connected so he could give a better explanation.

[Yanto]

Thought I would ask someone who knows a little about the subject of steel & supports.

Hope I repeat this correctly. The problem we are experiencing is related to fatique life not how old the car is. The area in question is being exposed to loading & unloading. The magnitude & frequency will affect the fatique life. So theoretically if the life is 1000 cycles at a given load once this is reached the material will crack. If we expose the car to 900 in its first year & then 10 each year for the next ten years the failure will occur after 11 years. 500 each year then the life is two years. If the loading/unloading is higher or lower it will affect the fatique life exponentially. Interestingly he also said the SMG is also probably contributing to the fatique life. He wanted to see pics of how everything is supported connected so he could give a better explanation.

Do you mean fatigue or are you trying to be all French ?

So am I kinda right ?

[nw942]

I was told that it's usually the rear left subframe mounting point that goes first, so obviously there is extra loading in that corner. If you look at some pictures of the underneath of the car, the main difference between the left and right is the presence of the differential mounting on the left hand side. So one possible cause is that maybe the differential bushing starts failing first, which leads to extra play and then knock on stresses to the rear left subframe bushes/mounting.

Obviously more aggressive driving and more violent gearchanges will affect the bushing, and I also suspect it will be exacerbated as the bushing deteriorates with age.

This is just a theory, so happy to be corrected.

[knoxville]

Thought I would ask someone who knows a little about the subject of steel & supports.

Hope I repeat this correctly. The problem we are experiencing is related to fatique life not how old the car is. The area in question is being exposed to loading & unloading. The magnitude & frequency will affect the fatique life. So theoretically if the life is 1000 cycles at a given load once this is reached the material will crack. If we expose the car to 900 in its first year & then 10 each year for the next ten years the failure will occur after 11 years. 500 each year then the life is two years. If the loading/unloading is higher or lower it will affect the fatique life exponentially. Interestingly he also said the SMG is also probably contributing to the fatique life. He wanted to see pics of how everything is supported connected so he could give a better explanation.

That's exactly it. S6, sticky tyres and drifting will all contribute increased loads. But where's the fun driving like a minge for the sake of what, £2k?

[shimmy]

I was told that it's usually the rear left subframe mounting point that goes first, so obviously there is extra loading in that corner. If you look at some pictures of the underneath of the car, the main difference between the left and right is the presence of the differential mounting on the left hand side. So one possible cause is that maybe the differential bushing starts failing first, which leads to extra play and then knock on stresses to the rear left subframe bushes/mounting.

Obviously more aggressive driving and more violent gearchanges will affect the bushing, and I also suspect it will be exacerbated as the bushing deteriorates with age.

This is just a theory, so happy to be corrected.

mine went and was fixed in 2010......so sometimes the garage queens do fail early :thumbs:

[Rick H]

That's exactly it. S6, sticky tyres and drifting will all contribute increased loads. But where's the fun driving like a minge for the sake of what, £2k?

" . . . driving like a minge . . ." :hahaha:

[LeinsCSL]

" . . . driving like a minge . . ." :hahaha:

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[Mike R]

Where all the trouble seems to stem from is the mounting hole is just too big and allows too much movement. I suspect it is like this for alignment purposes, but a friend who has done loads of repairs to these is yet to see one that hasn't lined up perfectly after being refitted (German tolerances being what they are LOL) and so he is looking to make sleeve for the bolts so that there is zero play (and hopefully then no yawing effect to cause the cracks). I'll keep you posted.

[Jonnymaz]

Very topical for me, just diagnosed with a crack in the subframe :bigcry:

It's probably been asked before but is there any merit in trying to get BMW to pay/contribute? Local BMW dealer and customer services not much help, just said they could confirm the crack and then apply to BMW, but said nothing about whether it is worth doing.

Any experience after the 10 year cut off? (it's a 53 plate).

If not presumably someone like Bartletts to fix it?

[cslsuperfan]

Very topical for me, just diagnosed with a crack in the subframe :bigcry:

It's probably been asked before but is there any merit in trying to get BMW to pay/contribute? Local BMW dealer and customer services not much help, just said they could confirm the crack and then apply to BMW, but said nothing about whether it is worth doing.

Any experience after the 10 year cut off? (it's a 53 plate).

If not presumably someone like Bartletts to fix it?


Gareth's your man @ Barts. :thumbs:

[Jonnymaz]

Gareth was the one who found it! Damn you Gareth :whistle:

Just can't believe we are all experiencing systematic failure and now having to pay for it!

[jupe777]

Very topical for me, just diagnosed with a crack in the subframe :bigcry:

It's probably been asked before but is there any merit in trying to get BMW to pay/contribute? Local BMW dealer and customer services not much help, just said they could confirm the crack and then apply to BMW, but said nothing about whether it is worth doing.

Any experience after the 10 year cut off? (it's a 53 plate).

If not presumably someone like Bartletts to fix it?

My car was outside the 10 yr warranty when the subframe was found to be cracked. It had previously passed as ok by a lesser dealer just inside the warranty period. It clearly wasn't as rust could be found in some of the cracks. Anyway I paid to have it properly checked at Elms Bedford who then found cracks on both sides. Elms said they would put my case forward to BMW UK and it came as a big surprise it was accepted :-). Only thing I had to pay for was the hire of the jig. The car had a warranty that had ran for a few years which I believe helped but I also think it makes a big difference who is putting the claim in. Defo worth a try to get it through BMW. Good luck.

[0836whimper]

http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=1525264

[nw99]

Can only help raise the value of all our cars

[LeinsCSL]

Another 100 PH posts on gearboxes then...

[73CSL]

couldnt help myself .. had to post ( hot66 ) as it annoys me sometimes how much drivel is put on PH ref the CSL

[nw99]

Likewise posted as well

[Mike R]

Me too :).

[73CSL]

mike, you put it better than I could :thumbs:

[Yanto]

Eric Bantona, Bantom of the opera, Bant and Dec. GET INVOLVED LOL

[Matt21]

Don't be so hard on the PH massive, I have learnt a lot tonight from the trolls.

I plan to sell the CSL, buy a 318i manual for £1000. Will then rip out the rear seats to save weight, put some fake CSL wheels on it, some Halfords carbon fibre effect trim, remap it, and I'll have a CSL for less than £2k. :supz:

[mattCSLnut]

Don't be so hard on the PH massive, I have learnt a lot tonight from the trolls.

I plan to sell the CSL, buy a 318i manual for £1000. Will then rip out the rear seats to save weight, put some fake CSL wheels on it, some Halfords carbon fibre effect trim, remap it, and I'll have a CSL for less than £2k. :supz:

Sounds like an Awesome plan Matt ;) very PH :hahaha: You just need to decide which CSL goes first :whistle:

[Das Chin]

archbishop of banterbury
bantersaurus rex

[billyboysm3]

You cannot just put cups on a fat bastard M3 and expect it to be any good. Coz its not!

Piss £15k up the wall and your getting somewhere.

But its then not as fun on the road as a CSL.

The end.

[Rick H]

You cannot just put cups on a fat bastard M3 and expect it to be any good. Coz its not!

Piss £15k up the wall and your getting somewhere.

But its then not as fun on the road as a CSL.

The end.

. . . and you wouldn't see your £15k again . . .

[cslsuperfan]

You cannot just put cups on a fat bastard M3 and expect it to be any good. Coz its not!

Piss £15k up the wall and your getting somewhere.

But its then not as fun on the road as a CSL.

The end.


Billy your f*t B*****d M3 does go well though and you don't need to worry to much if you stuff it into the wall. :smokin:

[Chappers]

Just out of interest, how people have been sent the link to that pistonheads article by their friends in the last two days and how many times?

The fact there's a ratty 90k miler on eBay with the new engine that hasn't sold for £30k does raise some good points though...

[Mike R]

Just out of interest, how people have been sent the link to that pistonheads article by their friends in the last two days and how many times?

The fact there's a ratty 90k miler on eBay with the new engine that hasn't sold for £30k does raise some good points though...

Really? It's hardly a good investment proposition (which is what seems to be driving the prices up). Good cars will sell, bad cars will hang around (for good reason). The bad cars will only sell when there are no good cars around for sale.

[billyboysm3]

And spending 5k just to make it look nice. Needs to be run in.
Lots of dosh spent, not sure how you get a whole new airbox

[khooni]

I don't understand boot floor repairs that don't involve welding reinforcement plates on the stressed areas to prevent cracks.

That should solve the problem once and for all.

Why doesn't everyone who has issues do that?

[Chappers]

I thought that just transferred the problem elsewhere?

[Mike R]

I don't understand boot floor repairs that don't involve welding reinforcement plates on the stressed areas to prevent cracks.

That should solve the problem once and for all.

Why doesn't everyone who has issues do that?

Unless this is combined with the resin injection into the cavity between the two floor sections, it will just end up ripping the entire floor out around the strengthened areas.

The issue is caused by the yawing motion of the bolts because of the weakness of the two pieces being too thin and not bonded together. The resin injection effectively seals the two pieces together and prevents the yawing motion which cause the cracks. I also personally think the holes that BMW use are too big and could benefit from a sleeve. I believe the holes are this size for location purposes, but a friend who has repaired eight boot floors so far has yet to see one that doesn't line up exactly afterwards.

[LeinsCSL]

Unless this is combined with the resin injection into the cavity between the two floor sections, it will just end up ripping the entire floor out around the strengthened areas.

I went for both as a preventative measure a couple of years ago, but only time will tell. Will be getting it inspected again next week so fingers crossed it's still holding up

[Mike R]

Should be spot on - the BMW repair is just to replace the entire boot floor like for like and THEN inject it with the foam / resin to seal the two together.

Your repair (combined with the resin) is the same difference. There are only problems if the repair is done WITHOUT the resin :).

[0836whimper]

Just out of interest, how people have been sent the link to that pistonheads article by their friends in the last two days and how many times?

The fact there's a ratty 90k miler on eBay with the new engine that hasn't sold for £30k does raise some good points though...

One text message asking "how much is yours then ?" and an email pointing me in the direction of the thread.

I'm the first to think this whole 'no option' thing is just a joke, but your average punter sucks up the rarity thing even more, so I'm not going to discourage them :)
By the way mine had no xenons, the fuel tank is only 1/3 full, an empty glove box and no coins down the seats, so I've contacted my insurer to advise them of the increase in value.

Problem with that ebay car is that a combination of a new engine and tatty condition gives you the impression of how it was driven/looked after previously that puts you off. Even selling it on ebay puts me off for some reason. You don't sell CSL's on ebay...

[jupe777]

The fact there's a ratty 90k miler on eBay with the new engine that hasn't sold for £30k does raise some good points though...

Now £37,000

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/e46-m3-00-06/bmw-3-series-e46-m3-csl------------------2004/4421365

[mattCSLnut]

Now £37,000

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/e46-m3-00-06/bmw-3-series-e46-m3-csl------------------2004/4421365

That's more like it :smokin: I always thought... why doesn't the owner/seller just get all the imperfections sorted and sell for a firmer price.
Finally... a positive move from the seller. Well done chap :beer:

[cslsuperfan]

That's more like it :smokin: I always thought... why doesn't the owner/seller just get all the imperfections sorted and sell for a firmer price.
Finally... a positive move from the seller. Well done chap :beer:


Agreed Matt

owner finally realised it's not a fiesta ST. Ebay is fine for those CSL bits and bobs but as widely commented...not for selling a pedigree car.

Looks like the seller is investing a little in cosmetic improvements...sure to return a premium sale price. :thumbs:

[Duck360198]

Has this zero option car sold?!

[shane@mbtech]

Should be spot on - the BMW repair is just to replace the entire boot floor like for like and THEN inject it with the foam / resin to seal the two together.

Your repair (combined with the resin) is the same difference. There are only problems if the repair is done WITHOUT the resin :).

Have you got any evidence of this being the case Mike?

[Trawler]

Have you got any evidence of this being the case Mike?

If I remember correctly NZ M3 has posted a few times why reinforcing does not work. I think he has also discussed the resin & how it is/has been used in race cars

[Mike R]

Have you got any evidence of this being the case Mike?

In my searches around the t'internet I have seen pics of cars that have had the reinforcement done, but not the resin injection where they have then just moved the cracks from the usual areas to around the welds of the reinforcement plates. The most extreme case I saw showed the floor ripped away completely around the strengthened areas :smt107

[MarcM]

There's night and day between technicians across the BMW dealer network.

Mine was checked at Dealer X and given the all clear.

8 weeks later on an Insp1 Gareth @ Elms found subframe issues...

Hi, just noticed your reply. Yeah would totally agree with your reply! Do I drive all the way to Englandshire for a check-up?

[cslsuperfan]

Hi, just noticed your reply. Yeah would totally agree with your reply! Do I drive all the way to Englandshire for a check-up?


Marc

Its a haul for yourself but you'll be glad you did.

Gareth will spot any fractures/weaknesses in your sub frame.

Guaranteed :smokin:

[LeinsCSL]

Hi, just noticed your reply. Yeah would totally agree with your reply! Do I drive all the way to Englandshire for a check-up?

Definitely worth bringing it to Gareth for work. At least you don't have to get a ferry!

[MarcM]

Marc

Its a haul for yourself but you'll be glad you did.

Gareth will spot any fractures/weaknesses in your sub frame.

Guaranteed :smokin:

Definitely worth bringing it to Gareth for work. At least you don't have to get a ferry!

Thanks guys. Think you are right, your car is only as good as your mechanic! Might try to fit it in with a car show/holiday. Those Irish ferries ain't cheap! Wanted an Elise Sport 160 from Ireland and also looked at going to the bike racing. :bigcry:

[LeinsCSL]

Thanks guys. Think you are right, your car is only as good as your mechanic! Might try to fit it in with a car show/holiday. Those Irish ferries ain't cheap! Wanted an Elise Sport 160 from Ireland and also looked at going to the bike racing. :bigcry:

Booked the ferry about 6 months ago so it wasn't too bad, then fitted it in with a visit to the Silverstone Classic. Just a pity it lashed rain at that, but still worth a visit

Not too many Elises over here, but plenty of bike road-racing! :)