SB on ebay

[Neil M]

Another CSL from SJ Specialist Cars Ltd. Newly listed and relatively cheap?:
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/2003-BMW-E46-M3-CSL-72K-full-bmw-service-record-immaculate-example-full-spec-/221744661635?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item33a10

[Rick H]

Hasn't that one been for sale for a while now? An SB in Wigan rings a bell?

[Matt21]

He still can't spell xenons

I think this is a new one

[AbidK]

Could it be the same car Eporsche had for sale?

[Neil M]

Hasn't that one been for sale for a while now? An SB in Wigan rings a bell?

No, this one is completely new to the market and now on PH: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/csl/2003-bmw-e46-m3-csl--72k-full-bmw-service-record--immaculate-example--full-spec-great-looking-car/3984766 .
The CSL he previously had for sale was an SG, Martin770's car and that was 12 months ago - my how time flies when you're car tracking. :whistle:
This SB previously belonged to a fellow member of this auspicious community.:thumbs:

[Pooky]

Way too cheap?

[AbidK]

No, this one is completely new to the market and now on PH: http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/used-cars/bmw/csl/2003-bmw-e46-m3-csl--72k-full-bmw-service-record--immaculate-example--full-spec-great-looking-car/3984766 .
The CSL he previously had for sale was an SG, Martin770's car and that was 12 months ago - my how time flies when you're car tracking. :whistle:
This SB previously belonged to a fellow member of this auspicious community.:thumbs:

Who did this previously belong too?

[WhataRcket]

i really want to treat myself:smt055, anyone have any info on this car before i go any further :thumbs:

[nw99]

Looks stunning.

[MCSL]

wow, that's good value!

[outnumbered]

Some more info here. http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10803&highlight=N333

[mattCSLnut]

wow, that's good value!

It looks good value but IMHO it's at least £3k under prised... I wonder why ? :whistle:

[AbidK]

Having read through the older post I'm wondering why its been put up for sale after all the work done and time its taken.........

[azrael]

Having read through the older post I'm wondering why its been put up for sale after all the work done and time its taken.........

I think there is a reason it needed all that work...

Have prices gone up again because I don't see it as cheap

[nw99]

I think there is a reason it needed all that work...

Have prices gone up again because I don't see it as cheap

Yes prices have risen

[WhataRcket]

Car has now been sold. These cars don't seem to hang around for long :banghead:

[nickjohnson]

I was looking to buy this car and almost did until I found out there were bigger gaps than 20000 miles in the service history. The largest gap possible would be 15500 miles and most CSLs generally get serviced every 10000 miles more or less. So basically meaning this car was not full service history like the running in service . If the running in service is done over 1700 miles then its not considered full BMW service history as there is only a 500 mile leeway on the 1200 miles . This is the reason it took sooooo long for me to sell the Irish car and more because I told everyone who enquired that the cars service was technically late. If Id have not said anything then Id have probably sold it a lot sooner but I always want to try and get back involved in the CSLs I sell so doing it as honestly as possible gives it a better chance to come back to me again although with this car it wasn't one I was happy to put my own money in to due to the late running in service so I sold it on behalf of the original owner but it took a year to sell. Who ever bought this car was obviously happy to not be bothered about the gaps or just didn't know that 20000 miles means its not full service history. I could have bought it for £26000 but didn't bother because it wasn't good enough for me and I didn't need another non full history car hanging around until who knows when. I think he got lucky with the sale but you make you own luck as I didn't by telling everyone about the running in process. Theres a few more cars out there with late running-in services but if its late you cant get a warranty on it aswell
:thumbs:

[nw99]

I was looking to buy this car and almost did until I found out there were bigger gaps than 20000 miles in the service history. The largest gap possible would be 15500 miles and most CSLs generally get serviced every 10000 miles more or less. So basically meaning this car was not full service history like the running in service . If the running in service is done over 1700 miles then its not considered full BMW service history as there is only a 500 mile leeway on the 1200 miles . This is the reason it took sooooo long for me to sell the Irish car and more because I told everyone who enquired that the cars service was technically late. If Id have not said anything then Id have probably sold it a lot sooner but I always want to try and get back involved in the CSLs I sell so doing it as honestly as possible gives it a better chance to come back to me again although with this car it wasn't one I was happy to put my own money in to due to the late running in service so I sold it on behalf of the original owner but it took a year to sell. Who ever bought this car was obviously happy to not be bothered about the gaps or just didn't know that 20000 miles means its not full service history. I could have bought it for £26000 but didn't bother because it wasn't good enough for me and I didn't need another non full history car hanging around until who knows when. I think he got lucky with the sale but you make you own luck as I didn't by telling everyone about the running in process. Theres a few more cars out there with late running-in services but if its late you cant get a warranty on it aswell
:thumbs:

Very good points Nick thank you for the explanation

[mattCSLnut]

I was looking to buy this car and almost did until I found out there were bigger gaps than 20000 miles in the service history. The largest gap possible would be 15500 miles and most CSLs generally get serviced every 10000 miles more or less. So basically meaning this car was not full service history like the running in service . If the running in service is done over 1700 miles then its not considered full BMW service history as there is only a 500 mile leeway on the 1200 miles . This is the reason it took sooooo long for me to sell the Irish car and more because I told everyone who enquired that the cars service was technically late. If Id have not said anything then Id have probably sold it a lot sooner but I always want to try and get back involved in the CSLs I sell so doing it as honestly as possible gives it a better chance to come back to me again although with this car it wasn't one I was happy to put my own money in to due to the late running in service so I sold it on behalf of the original owner but it took a year to sell. Who ever bought this car was obviously happy to not be bothered about the gaps or just didn't know that 20000 miles means its not full service history. I could have bought it for £26000 but didn't bother because it wasn't good enough for me and I didn't need another non full history car hanging around until who knows when. I think he got lucky with the sale but you make you own luck as I didn't by telling everyone about the running in process. Theres a few more cars out there with late running-in services but if its late you cant get a warranty on it aswell
:thumbs:
With all due respect NJ your info on "Running in service" is not factual and I'd like to know where you've sourced this information from as BMW themselves warranty cars with late running in service up to 2000 miles (so 800 mile leeway, not the 500 you claim) without issues. There are a number of Forum cars with later running in service which have been Warranted from New and not had any warranty claims refused to date, me included.
What kills the full service history & warranty claims is going over the 2 year or 15500 limit between the BMW scheduled service intervals. Only them BMW can and often do refuse any warranty claims. This seems a real problem with some of the sub 10K miles CSL that seem to sell for £60K + yet have excessive time gaps between scheduled services :banghead:

[nickjohnson]

I actually worked for BMW in 2003 and that was the perametres when I worked there. Ive also contact BMW on numerous occasions to confirm for varios different people. It is also down to the dealer you take it too as Ive had different answers from different dealers but also quite a few dealer like Benham BMW in Wolverhampton who sold cars over the 1700 miles would stand on them from a warranty stand but if you took it to another dealer who checked the service book(as not every running in service is dialoged on the system) then they would say its out of mileage. So If North Oxford Garage sold a CSL with running in service done at 1999 miles then only they could warrant work if the engine goes pop........oh yea and that's the other thing in the earlier days you could get a warranty for things like a diff and other warranty items but if the engine goes pop and you have a late running in service then your on your own. I have had experience of BMW warrantys a lot as ive sold one or two of these but they have also changed their peramtres over the years like you could used to get a warranty unless the car was still in warranty or you got an approved used to check done on the car where as now you can get one on it called a lapsed warranty which doesn't kick in for a month from when you buy it.

Tell me people, or should I say Niel ;) as I got it wrong before, How many no options cars were made and whats happened to them as I have a rather special car here with me im about to advertise:thumbs:

[Trawler]

Nick. Look forward to hearing about this no option car. Brings back memories when I was looking for one (like finding hens teeth), but the Mrs said if we are going touring it will have air con. The boss always wins. Can't say I regret it as it gets bloody hot in a cesil even in the UK.

[Scott]

Tell me people, or should I say Niel ;) as I got it wrong before, How many no options cars were made and whats happened to them as I have a rather special car here with me im about to advertise:thumbs:

I've been told there is only 3 genuine optionless cars ie. aside from the main 4, no sunstrip, no carpets, not even the CSL wheels.

Did you not sell one last year though (17k miles if my memory serves me right)? Is this the same one? I only ask because I believe one was written off and the other one is currently sitting in my best mates garage never to be sold, and I really do mean NEVER!

If it is a genuine optionless car then I'd say you could put whatever price you want on it Nick because if somebody wants a CSL the way it was designed to be, then this is their only chance. I feel a record price coming on :thumbs:

*cough* £100k *cough*

[bryce]

I can confirm that the rumour Scott is spreading is indeed true - I own number three of three optionless cars and it will never be for sale.

If it's correct that Nick owns one, I have another and the last belongs to the scrap man then pick a figure and double it.

For what it's worth - £100,000 wouldn't buy mine - it's holding my garage down.

[73CSL]

so an optioness CSL ... the main difference between that a regular averagely optioned CSL would be no aircon, no stereo ( assume Xenons, parking sensors would be on a highly optioned car )

[nw99]

I've been told there is only 3 genuine optionless cars ie. aside from the main 4, no sunstrip, no carpets, not even the CSL wheels.

Did you not sell one last year though (17k miles if my memory serves me right)? Is this the same one? I only ask because I believe one was written off and the other one is currently sitting in my best mates garage never to be sold, and I really do mean NEVER!

If it is a genuine optionless car then I'd say you could put whatever price you want on it Nick because if somebody wants a CSL the way it was designed to be, then this is their only chance. I feel a record price coming on :thumbs:

*cough* £100k *cough*

Agreed has to be very very rare ...

[nw99]

Mine has Xenons and Air Con and biz radio but no parking sensors

[Bounce]

Mine has Xenons and Air Con and biz radio but no parking sensorsNo Xenons or parking sensors here,those two options were only if you were Gay anyway :gayfight:;)

[Bounce]

No Xenons or parking sensors here,those two options were only if you were Gay anyway :gayfight:;)Athough I have got them on my 325i Convertible :hahaha::hahaha:

[pops]

Only aircon and radio.

So,not gay then afterall, :whistle:

[nw99]

No Xenons or parking sensors here,those two options were only if you were Gay anyway :gayfight:;)

I struggled to find another car with 6,300 miles on it 😀

[73CSL]

phew , I'm safe ... no xenons or parking sensors on mine either :hahaha::gayfight:

[Neil M]

There were indeed 3 option-less cars as has been stated, all 3 were SG's.
One was sold in late 2012 by a chap called Lee that lived in Cheshire, a 1 owner car with 91,000K the asking price was then £22,500.
Less isn't always more - or is it? :whistle:

[CraigMillwardCroft]

No Xenons or parking sensors here,those two options were only if you were Gay anyway :gayfight:;)

You probably have some one to get out and stop traffic and assist :whistle:

[Bounce]

You probably have some one to get out and stop traffic and assist :whistle:Yeah,the Mrs gets out and directs me back into parking spaces,rain or shine :whistle:

[Bounce]

I did buy her an M- Power umbrella :hahaha:

[Scott]

There were indeed 3 option-less cars as has been stated, all 3 were SG's.
One was sold in late 2012 by a chap called Lee that lived in Cheshire, a 1 owner car with 91,000K the asking price was then £22,500.
Less isn't always more - or is it? :whistle:

I assume this is the one Lawsy bought and then subsequently binned?

As per Matt's #7 post

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12136&highlight=optionless

And as per your #13 post, NJ was wanting £50+k for the optionless one last time.

If your reading this Nick, you need to double it this time ;)

[Scott]

No Xenons or parking sensors here,those two options were only if you were Gay anyway :gayfight:;)

Agreed - no xenons or parking sensors here! I am a man so I don't need help parking or seeing at night for that matter. :thumbs:

[bryce]

I think some are missing the point here. Whether it's now or 20 years down the the line, the optionless cars will become the most sought after as that's as the manufacturer intended. Anyone who follows the car market knows this.

[LeinsCSL]

Mine was specced with aircon & xenons, but no Cups = ultra :gayfight:-spec

It does nudge 180 though :thumbs:

[MisterCorn]

I think some are missing the point here. Whether it's now or 20 years down the the line, the optionless cars will become the most sought after as that's as the manufacturer intended. Anyone who follows the car market knows this.

Surely if the manufacturer had intended the cars to not have certain features they wouldn't have offered them. For example sunroof, heated leather electric seats or sat nav.

You could apply that theory to any poverty spec model of any car and it doesn't always follow.

MC

[Scott]

Surely if the manufacturer had intended the cars to not have certain features they wouldn't have offered them. For example sunroof, heated leather electric seats or sat nav.

You could apply that theory to any poverty spec model of any car and it doesn't always follow.

MC

The CSL is not a normal car though, it is a low production special edition, so your poverty spec comment does not apply here. It was designed to be as light as possible and all about the driving experience - that means no extras. Manufacturers provide options for customers on normal cars to make more money - simple.

And to back up the point there was a GT3 RS for sale with no cage and the company struggled to sell it. Why? Because Porsche designed it to be ultimate track day car so supplied bucket seats, cage and harnesses as standard. There was an option to delete the cage and that specific car paid the price because why would you want an RS without a cage?

[cslsuperfan]

No Xenons or parking sensors here,those two options were only if you were Gay anyway :gayfight:;)


brett I see you still have connections in the diplomatic corps!!!! ;)

[Trawler]

Only aircon and radio.

So,not gay then afterall, :whistle:

Sounds a bit ac/dc o me.

[cslsuperfan]

100K price tag!!!!

Bloody Hell.

A thorough research of the vehicle's documentation would be a must.

[stradman]

I personally don't buy this. The CSL came out as one edition-it did not have an official sport/stripped out or "more" lightweight version vs a "comfort" version so we're talking about the same car. Adding/subtracting the few options here and there does not have that much of an effect. Overall condition/mileage/SH is much more important.
Furthermore adding or removing aircon/stereo and xenons, may add or remove maybe 18kgs in total however I don't expect that to have much of an effect on the price. In fact its very easy to remove the stereo and put a dummy fascia on it and it doesn't take that much to take out the xenons if you want also. Ok the aircon is more involved but that's maybe 12kg in total so not significant in weight overall. Conversely it might put off some people if there is no aircon and therefore limit its marketability(I personally wouldn't buy it without aircon). Lets not overstate this no option issue folks......

The CSL is not a normal car though, it is a low production special edition, so your poverty spec comment does not apply here. It was designed to be as light as possible and all about the driving experience - that means no extras. Manufacturers provide options for customers on normal cars to make more money - simple.

And to back up the point there was a GT3 RS for sale with no cage and the company struggled to sell it. Why? Because Porsche designed it to be ultimate track day car so supplied bucket seats, cage and harnesses as standard. There was an option to delete the cage and that specific car paid the price because why would you want an RS without a cage?

[glendog74]

I think some are missing the point here. Whether it's now or 20 years down the the line, the optionless cars will become the most sought after as that's as the manufacturer intended. Anyone who follows the car market knows this.

Keep talking it up Bryce, lol!

In 20 years time any well cared for CSL will be worth a tidy sum; particularly lower mileage examples.

Mine was specced with aircon & xenons, but no Cups = ultra :gayfight:-spec

It does nudge 180 though :thumbs:

+1 :thumbs: :gayfight:

[Neil M]

Mine was specced with aircon & xenons, but no Cups = ultra :gayfight:-spec

It does nudge 180 though :thumbs:

Yours has the one option that's worth having ;)
The non-option cars could be seen as the poor mans CSL as they were cheaper to buy.

[sailorbaz]

The non-option cars could be seen as the poor mans CSL as they were cheaper to buy.

I was under the impression the options were no-cost options... :whistle:

[CraigMillwardCroft]

I did buy her an M- Power umbrella :hahaha:

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[MisterCorn]

I found this about options.....

The short list of extra-cost options included only an anti-theft alarm, green-tinted windshield stripe or climate comfort windshield, velour floor mats, bi-Xenon headlights with headlight washers (washers excluded on UK-spec examples), Park Distance Control, rain sensor with automatic headlight control, automatic climate control and various cassette/CD/mini-disc radios. There were also three no-cost options available: deletion of the rear “M3 CSL” badge, a “smokers package” that included an ashtray and cigarette lighter, plus the fitment of the forged M Double Spoke II alloy wheels with conventional tires from the standard M3 in place of the CSL’s cross-spoke alloy wheels with Cup tires. One final factory option was the removal of the standard 155-mph top speed limiter.

So a no option car would not be lightest, as a rear badge delete was an option. It would also be limited to 155mph.

MC

[Yanto]

I personally don't buy this. The CSL came out as one edition-it did not have an official sport/stripped out or "more" lightweight version vs a "comfort" version so we're talking about the same car. Adding/subtracting the few options here and there does not have that much of an effect. Overall condition/mileage/SH is much more important.
Furthermore adding or removing aircon/stereo and xenons, may add or remove maybe 18kgs in total however I don't expect that to have much of an effect on the price. In fact its very easy to remove the stereo and put a dummy fascia on it and it doesn't take that much to take out the xenons if you want also. Ok the aircon is more involved but that's maybe 12kg in total so not significant in weight overall. Conversely it might put off some people if there is no aircon and therefore limit its marketability(I personally wouldn't buy it without aircon). Lets not overstate this no option issue folks......

Agree. And any option saving will be countered by the ego weight of many owners :hahaha:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Agree. And any option saving will be countered by the ego weight of many owners :hahaha:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b7iUKaPlBl8

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[bryce]

Who said the weight has any bearing on value? Still not getting it some of you are you.

This is not a "my cars better than your car" argument.

[Yanto]

Who said the weight has any bearing on value? Still not getting it some of you are you.

This is not a "my cars better than your car" argument.

I get what you're saying and understand the logic, but not sure I agree.

As mentioned, there was no formal CS or Comfort option (as per Porsches roster, and hence no formal factory delineation in model type).

That an owner can choose to swerve the options list or not exercise a no cost option does not sufficiently distinguish the car as something special or different IMO. That you could prob DIY most of this anyway makes it even less so.

I think after 12 years we would've begun to see a delta in price already if this is the case.

Good cars are good cars (and therefore Are more sought after) for stronger reasons than this IMO.

[MCSL]

Good cars are good cars (and therefore Are more sought after) for stronger reasons than this IMO.

I agree with this.

It gets to a point when it all gets a bit silly. A CSL is a CSL.

[Scott]

I get what you're saying and understand the logic, but not sure I agree.

As mentioned, there was no formal CS or Comfort option (as per Porsches roster, and hence no formal factory delineation in model type).

That an owner can choose to swerve the options list or not exercise a no cost option does not sufficiently distinguish the car as something special or different IMO. That you could prob DIY most of this anyway makes it even less so.

I think after 12 years we would've begun to see a delta in price already if this is the case.

Good cars are good cars (and therefore Are more sought after) for stronger reasons than this IMO.

I don't think he is saying one CSL is better than another - that is not the case, all CSL's are brilliant and will appreciate. What he is saying is that now, or in 20 years, collectors will want the most unique, one with the best story, one with the best history, one with the lowest miles or one of 3 optionless cars from the factory. Obviously condition and history play a massive part in this but assuming like for like the optionless one will be more desirable and hence more valuable IMO.

Yes you can obviously delete all the options to make it an optionless car but to the same extent you can buy a normal M3 and turn it in to a CSL...

I think Nick sums up Bryce's point perfectly

Like an E30 Evo Sport or Stradale the examples that become most desirable are the ones truest to the original concept.

Whether you think it's worth more or not shouldn't really matter because whatever Nick puts it up for I can almost guarantee there will be a price increase across the board. Something that none of us should be against.

[nw99]

Agreed the higher it goes the better for the rest of who own the cars .

[Yanto]

I don't think he is saying one CSL is better than another - that is not the case, all CSL's are brilliant and will appreciate. What he is saying is that now, or in 20 years, collectors will want the most unique, one with the best story, one with the best history, one with the lowest miles or one of 3 optionless cars from the factory. Obviously condition and history play a massive part in this but assuming like for like the optionless one will be more desirable and hence more valuable IMO.

Yes, I am saying I'm not 100% convinced of the option less position. Beauty of forums is the differing opinion:beer:

Yes you can obviously delete all the options to make it an optionless car but to the same extent you can buy a normal M3 and turn it in to a CSL...

But no CSL chassis #doing it this way..hence not original factory car.....hence, I disagree. Like turning a boggo 993 into a 993 RS look a like for example.

I think Nick sums up Bryce's point perfectly

Aside from RHD/LHD is there a pricespread within the Evo or stradale model based on options (or not) chosen? (Genuine question)....which is the basis of the above comment

[LeinsCSL]

Great if prices go up, but this all sounds a bit Emperor's New Options List to me

A car is worth more because it wasn't ordered with a radio 12 years ago... Were all these "optionless" cars originally spec'd with Cups? If not, are they worth less now because they originally rolled out on 19" double-spokes?

For what it's worth, I would have paid a premium for one of the original MiniDisc cars :smokin:

[MisterCorn]

For what it's worth, I would have paid a premium for one of the original MiniDisc cars :smokin:

I have just taken the minidisc player out of my 300SL if you really want one...

MC

[bryce]

All fair points lads.

Yanto - I agree that modifying a M3 into a CSL is way off the mark however would you not agree that to take parts off / rip out bits on a specced car would defeat the purpose of this debate also. The real value is in originality and original factory spec, whether that be in optioned or optionless car.

As for original wheels and tyres etc - they could soon be added by the collector - and it will be a collector - easily and that'll make it 100% original factory spec.

[Yanto]

All fair points lads.

Yanto - I agree that modifying a M3 into a CSL is way off the mark however would you not agree that to take parts off / rip out bits on a specced car would defeat the purpose of this debate also. The real value is in originality and original factory spec, whether that be in optioned or optionless car.

As for original wheels and tyres etc - they could soon be added by the collector - and it will be a collector - easily and that'll make it 100% original factory spec.

:thumbs: I can go back to the balcony sun and San Miguel in peace now mate :beer:

[glendog74]

Phew - and relax... :gayfight:

[LeinsCSL]

I have just taken the minidisc player out of my 300SL if you really want one...

MC

Haha, cheers mate! However, as the CD player doesn't get much use as it is, it'd probably be wasted on my car ;)

[Neil M]

The real value is in originality and original factory spec, whether that be in optioned or optionless car.

Spot on! ;)

[73CSL]

... although non xenon cars look better :blalalala: :hahaha:

[alexk]

Mine is a cabrio.


Only 1 in the world !

[mistergav]

Old thread but here is another - http://pages.ebay.com/link/?nav=item.view&alt=web&id=151719188487&globalID=EBAY-GB

[toenheel]

Well that was painful looking through those pictures.:bigcry: