Clutch Slur and in at Elms

[cps]

Hello,
bit of advise and help needed. So my CSL is in at Elms. I have a warranty. I have clutch slur. We did a road test. They have updated software which I paid for. Clutch slur still present. :bigcry:

They have said that I need to pay for them to drop the gear box down ( £645) and if it need a new clutch pay etc. Fair if I have worn parts, but I'm just a bit concerned this might not fix the slur, and where this might end a paid " guessing. I've read the warranty book about what is covered etc. I have read the post from NZm3 on the GT1, although when I mentioned this they said "hard to interpret clutch where from readouts.

Does this seem reasonable to pay for the box drop and should I ask anything specific in proceeding in your experienced group view.

Service has been very pleasant so far there, nice courtesy car etc

thanks

Chris

[cantfind1]

Gearbox will need to be dropped, may as well change clutch while you are there.

Replace parts 1,2 and 3 in this diagram. Its what the clutch release bearing slides on, it becomes scored and rough and the bearing no longer slides smoothly leading to the clutch dragging or slurring...

This part should be replaced each time the clutch is replaced!

Make sure to replace the bearing as well, should come with the new clutch kit.

Then follow NZ's description. On resetting clutch values/ curve etc.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL96&mospid=50641&btnr=23_0219&hg=23&fg=15

Simples

[Bounce]

Hello,
bit of advise and help needed. So my CSL is in at Elms. I have a warranty. I have clutch slur. We did a road test. They have updated software which I paid for. Clutch slur still present. :bigcry:

They have said that I need to pay for them to drop the gear box down ( £645) and if it need a new clutch pay etc. Fair if I have worn parts, but I'm just a bit concerned this might not fix the slur, and where this might end a paid " guessing. I've read the warranty book about what is covered etc. I have read the post from NZm3 on the GT1, although when I mentioned this they said "hard to interpret clutch where from readouts.

Does this seem reasonable to pay for the box drop and should I ask anything specific in proceeding in your experienced group view.

Service has been very pleasant so far there, nice courtesy car etc

thanks

ChrisI did the same thing a few years back,Csl was on 60k miles,clutch was good for another 60k miles,Warranty then paid for the whole lot including New flywheel and it's not slurred since.;)

[estoril]

Does anyone have a video showing a clutch slurring or can (clearly) describe what a non-slurring vs a slurring clutch is like?

[shimmy]

barp...barp (no clutch slur)


barp..bbbbbbbbarp (clutch slur)

[MikeNsx]

barp...barp (no clutch slur)


barp..bbbbbbbbarp (clutch slur)

Did anyone else say this out loud and imagine they were gunning it in the csl?

[Bounce]

barp...barp (no clutch slur)


barp..bbbbbbbbarp (clutch slur)Thats spot on,uncanny.:hahaha:

[rstoughy]

barp...barp (no clutch slur)


barp..bbbbbbbbarp (clutch slur)

hahahaha I sounded like a VeeeeeeTecccccc when I said that out loud!!!

[s.mac]

They have to cover themselves but the clutch bearings normally go 1st and that's how they get it on a warranty claim, they change clutch , flywheel as a matter of course.

They did on mine and most others I know of.

If it's deffo slurring I would take the risk and ask them to strip ;)

[Bounce]

They have to cover themselves but the clutch bearings normally go 1st and that's how they get it on a warranty claim, they change clutch , flywheel as a matter of course.

They did on mine and most others I know of.

If it's deffo slurring I would take the risk and ask them to strip ;)+1;)

[shimmy]

Hello,
bit of advise and help needed. So my CSL is in at Elms. I have a warranty. I have clutch slur. We did a road test. They have updated software which I paid for. Clutch slur still present. :bigcry:

They have said that I need to pay for them to drop the gear box down ( £645) and if it need a new clutch pay etc. Fair if I have worn parts, but I'm just a bit concerned this might not fix the slur, and where this might end a paid " guessing. I've read the warranty book about what is covered etc. I have read the post from NZm3 on the GT1, although when I mentioned this they said "hard to interpret clutch where from readouts.

Does this seem reasonable to pay for the box drop and should I ask anything specific in proceeding in your experienced group view.

Service has been very pleasant so far there, nice courtesy car etc

thanks

Chris

whats your mileage?

mine was swapped at 45k and they said the clutch looked new.

[cps]

+1;)

Hi All thanks, So I have asked them to drop the box, and am waiting to hear. I asked about the procedure of the GT1, but they didn't seem to know/be keen on that?

That other link is great, so hoping to speak to them tomorrow.

The clutch slur was most noticeable say in 5th at about 65 ( 70) when you flick the left paddle coming out of auto and hit the throttle, then you could see the rev needle raise, .. then drop then, rise in line with acceleration.

I have had it about 18 months. I don't drive it much or track it. We gave it a good go with Dan from Elms's and shifting up and down the box he could see and hear, mine seems to change gear as if it's a soft close kitchen cupboard, the last bit of travel seems very soft. On my old M3 smg, the change used to smack you in the back and you had to lift off. Perhaps that's why the chassis has not needed doing in this one.. although it will at some point.

anyway many thanks for advise all.

keep you posted

[Bounce]

Once you have it working,it will be even better than your old M3(I had one)just don't start lifting or it'll start happening again.;)

[E46CSL]

barp...barp (no clutch slur)


barp..bbbbbbbbarp (clutch slur)

This guy is good

[cps]

whats your mileage?

mine was swapped at 45k and they said the clutch looked new.

Hi, there is 52,685 on mine, it may have had a hard life, but i'm sorting things bit by bit, don't really know if it was tracked much etc, but the engine seems very strong ;)drives very well, etc.

[shimmy]

Hi, there is 52,685 on mine, it may have had a hard life, but i'm sorting things bit by bit, don't really know if it was tracked much etc, but the engine seems very strong ;)drives very well, etc.

im willing to bet mine had a harder one.......but anyway, your clutch will be A1

[cps]

im willing to bet mine had a harder one.......but anyway, your clutch will be A1

I expect so, :hahaha: i noticed in the bills mine had a steering rack and a front wheel which i thought... mmm ran out of track then ..:hahaha:

i can't believe all the car on track pictures and yet all the cars look in mint condition, quite something that. need to do the front brakes next if this doesn't empty my piggy bank..

they gave me a GT55 courtesy car, it's like the exact opposite of what i took in :hahaha:

[karbonkid]

Hello,
bit of advise and help needed. So my CSL is in at Elms. I have a warranty. I have clutch slur. We did a road test. They have updated software which I paid for. Clutch slur still present. :bigcry:

They have said that I need to pay for them to drop the gear box down ( £645) and if it need a new clutch pay etc. Fair if I have worn parts, but I'm just a bit concerned this might not fix the slur, and where this might end a paid " guessing. I've read the warranty book about what is covered etc. I have read the post from NZm3 on the GT1, although when I mentioned this they said "hard to interpret clutch where from readouts.

Does this seem reasonable to pay for the box drop and should I ask anything specific in proceeding in your experienced group view.

Service has been very pleasant so far there, nice courtesy car etc

thanks

Chris

Chris, if you have warranty why are you paying for the investigation?

[Bounce]

Chris, if you have warranty why are you paying for the investigation?They do it incase the clutch is worn and doesn't come under warranty,but he won't pay when they find the clutch isn't worn ;)

[shimmy]

They do it incase the clutch is worn and doesn't come under warranty,but he won't pay when they find the clutch isn't worn ;)

so anyway, you got digital tv down there yet?

[cps]

They do it incase the clutch is worn and doesn't come under warranty,but he won't pay when they find the clutch isn't worn ;)

Yes thats what I asked, and as said, in case it is worn.., they said 2k if a clutch replacement through clutch wear.. But hoping it won't be just that.. spoke to Service this morning and they were going to drop the box today. not heard anything yet..:whistle:, i discussed the parts mentioned by @cantfind1, so they were going to look. no news yet.. they seemed to understand my concerns though.. paying to guess and replacing stuff that didn't fix it. They have been helpful so far which is great.


could be worse, they mentioned they had 2 CSL's in there for 18 months waiting for cam shafts.. apparently said parts are coming through though..

[karbonkid]

Ok, well hopefully covered by warranty but whilst at this stage for anyone I would replace all the following parts:

Gearbox
25112229793 X1 - Actuator rod joint
23411466134 X1 - Dowel Pin

23317506947 X1 - Repair Kit (Spring 1)

23311228397 X1 - Spring (Spring 2)
23317545771 X1 - Blind plug
23311282539 X1 - Locking pin

23311228405 X1 - Spring (Spring 3)
07119986280 X1 - Ball

Clutch
21511223302 X1 - Release fork
21511223328 X1 - Ball pin
21517570284 X1 - Spring pin
23117512866 X1 - Guild bush
23121228493 X1 - Shaft seal
11211720310 X1 - Grooved bearing
23317545769 X4 - Hex bolt

Actuator Rod joint - they would normally clean up and put back on. For +/- £25 it's worth replacing along with a new Dowel pin as well as these are prone to seize up. This joint ties the actuator rod to gearbox selector rod and if seized can cause failure whilst trying to do the adaption in SMG on GT1/ INPA and with the very little movement it needs it's easy to become seized.

Whilst gearbox is dropped, replace all compression springs & related parts. All are little money (like £3 for spring along) except 23317506947 (Spring 1) which is circa £100 as it comes as a kit and the parts can't be purchased individually. I believe one of the springs has also been replaced with a larger diameter coil to the originals.

Cluth parts already mentioned by cantfind1. Replace these too.

[cps]

Ok, well hopefully covered by warranty but whilst at this stage for anyone I would replace all the following parts:

Gearbox
25112229793 X1 - Actuator rod joint
23411466134 X1 - Dowel Pin

23317506947 X1 - Repair Kit (Spring 1)

23311228397 X1 - Spring (Spring 2)
23317545771 X1 - Blind plug
23311282539 X1 - Locking pin

23311228405 X1 - Spring (Spring 3)
07119986280 X1 - Ball

Clutch
21511223302 X1 - Release fork
21511223328 X1 - Ball pin
21517570284 X1 - Spring pin
23117512866 X1 - Guild bush
23121228493 X1 - Shaft seal
11211720310 X1 - Grooved bearing
23317545769 X4 - Hex bolt

Actuator Rod joint - they would normally clean up and put back on. For +/- £25 it's worth replacing along with a new Dowel pin as well as these are prone to seize up. This joint ties the actuator rod to gearbox selector rod and if seized can cause failure whilst trying to do the adaption in SMG on GT1/ INPA and with the very little movement it needs it's easy to become seized.

Whilst gearbox is dropped, replace all compression springs & related parts. All are little money (like £3 for spring along) except 23317506947 (Spring 1) which is circa £100 as it comes as a kit and the parts can't be purchased individually. I believe one of the springs has also been replaced with a larger diameter coil to the originals.

Cluth parts already mentioned by cantfind1. Replace these too.

Hi, wow thanks for that list.:thumbs: I'll definitely ask about those. i did ask, them to check the detent springs, but that is very specific. still no news yet..

thanks

chris

[Bounce]

so anyway, you got digital tv down there yet?Whats Digital tv,tell me more;)

[cps]

Gearbox will need to be dropped, may as well change clutch while you are there.

Replace parts 1,2 and 3 in this diagram. Its what the clutch release bearing slides on, it becomes scored and rough and the bearing no longer slides smoothly leading to the clutch dragging or slurring...

This part should be replaced each time the clutch is replaced!

Make sure to replace the bearing as well, should come with the new clutch kit.

Then follow NZ's description. On resetting clutch values/ curve etc.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL96&mospid=50641&btnr=23_0219&hg=23&fg=15

Simples

So quick update, thanks to all for advise, Elms have re-built the clutch with replacement parts and parts all under warranty. phew.. :thumbs:

unfortunately during the process they have found a subframe crack:bigcry: and mine is past the period of free replacement. So I guess now I need to start a new thread called, has anyone used Redish Automotive for a crack fix? Elms are going to get me a quote on the floor, so i'll see what that comes in at and weigh up the pro's and cons. all part of not driving a boring car and having something interesting.

[estoril]

My boot floor is being repaired right now by Munich Legends (at their cost) using the Redish kit. I did try and convince BMW to do the repair but they were unwilling in spite of a couple of emails to Graeme Grieve directly.

They charge something in the region of £4K for the repair, an independent such as Redish or Simpson will charge in the region of £1500-£2K and from what I have learned they are much better than the BMW repairs as BMW do no strengthening of the boot floor, they simply replace it and inject the resin (in one side only). There have been cases of BMW repaired cars failing a second time...

BTW - I have been told that it is not a good idea to have the resin injected into the floor void as a preventative measure as once done repair is difficult (I was going to say impossible but I doubt that is true), but BMW will not do a repair if the resin has been injected since the resin is flammable....

[cps]

My boot floor is being repaired right now by Munich Legends (at their cost) using the Redish kit. I did try and convince BMW to do the repair but they were unwilling in spite of a couple of emails to Graeme Grieve directly.

They charge something in the region of £4K for the repair, an independent such as Redish or Simpson will charge in the region of £1500-£2K and from what I have learned they are much better than the BMW repairs as BMW do no strengthening of the boot floor, they simply replace it and inject the resin (in one side only). There have been cases of BMW repaired cars failing a second time...

BTW - I have been told that it is not a good idea to have the resin injected into the floor void as a preventative measure as once done repair is difficult (I was going to say impossible but I doubt that is true), but BMW will not do a repair if the resin has been injected since the resin is flammable....

Oh interesting,

So i was watching the Redish videos last night, I understand the principles and issues with spot weld locations. I have some questions about the bush designs, i'm not sure if a threaded pin with an external circular fixing screws in the boot floor and then the bush goes on that? I was wondering why BMW shaped the bushes the way they did? must have been some reason? and does the flat powerflex bush really give even contact and pressure distribution? I also wondered why you couldn't weld a tube between the boot floor void linking the upper and lower panels?

i was hoping for a 1.5k option more than 4k and replacing the whole boot floor without clamping the whole body in a production jig and then distressing with heat didn't appeal, but i'm probably overthinking it..

BTW how did Munich Legends end up doing your repair for free? guessing this is not a CSL charity service they offer?;) or can i sign up for that?:hahaha:

[estoril]

BTW how did Munich Legends end up doing your repair for free? guessing this is not a CSL charity service they offer?;) or can i sign up for that?:hahaha:

I bought the car from them and the issue was noted prior to purchase....you could sell them your car and buy it back I guess :clown:

[glendog74]

BMW do no strengthening of the boot floor, they simply replace it and inject the resin (in one side only). There have been cases of BMW repaired cars failing a second time...


Not true. I'm sure its on a car by car basis and the severity of cracking as to how much work is put in by the BMW repairer.

My car received a complete new boot floor and has the welding marks/joint sealer and new paint under the boot carpet to show for it. Specialist Cars of Hitchin completed my repair work and replaced all suspension bushes in the process too :thumbs:

[Rick H]

Yep, mine had a full floor too . . .

.
.
.

[estoril]

I visited Specialist cars for an inspection about 2 weeks ago and mine was confirmed as cracked although very very early stages, their answer was to replace the whole boot floor, I do not believe they have any other answer as they do not have repair parts, if this isn't the case then I stand corrected but it would have been strange for them to replace the whole floor on my car IF they had strengthening plates available.

Not true. I'm sure its on a car by car basis and the severity of cracking as to how much work is put in by the BMW repairer.

My car received a complete new boot floor and has the welding marks/joint sealer and new paint under the boot carpet to show for it. Specialist Cars of Hitchin completed my repair work and replaced all suspension bushes in the process too :thumbs:

[cslsuperfan]

Not true. I'm sure its on a car by car basis and the severity of cracking as to how much work is put in by the BMW repairer.

My car received a complete new boot floor and has the welding marks/joint sealer and new paint under the boot carpet to show for it. :thumbs:

As did mine Rob:smokin:

[glendog74]

I visited Specialist cars for an inspection about 2 weeks ago and mine was confirmed as cracked although very very early stages, their answer was to replace the whole boot floor, I do not believe they have any other answer as they do not have repair parts, if this isn't the case then I stand corrected but it would have been strange for them to replace the whole floor on my car IF they had strengthening plates available.

Replacing the whole boot floor section is the only BMW sanctioned repair that will sort the issue properly. Simply injecting resin filler (as some dealerships are apparently said to have done) will not 'repair' a crack - merely prevent it getting worse I believe.

My car only had one small crack by the way but it was deemed prudent to replace the entire boot floor on warranty.

[Bounce]

As did mine Rob:smokin:And mine ;)

[cps]

mmm i'll have to look into this further

[0836whimper]

i can't believe all the car on track pictures and yet all the cars look in mint condition, quite something that. need to do the front brakes next if this doesn't empty my piggy bank..


It is possible. I had the front end re-sprayed whilst the boot floor was being done and then had http://www.paintshield.co.uk/ put on the front and roof. And I'm very careful with the interior and it doesn't get driven in winter.

So even though it has the odd track outing (like Greyhounds, CSL's need a good run out) as long as you don't follow too closely behind a car spitting up gravel and also sort any issues as they arise, there's no reason why you can't to drive it properly and keep it looking mint.

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Mine had no cracks so had the resin filler done :thumbs:

[cps]

It is possible. I had the front end re-sprayed whilst the boot floor was being done and then had http://www.paintshield.co.uk/ put on the front and roof. And I'm very careful with the interior and it doesn't get driven in winter.

So even though it has the odd track outing (like Greyhounds, CSL's need a good run out) as long as you don't follow too closely behind a car spitting up gravel and also sort any issues as they arise, there's no reason why you can't to drive it properly and keep it looking mint.

Ah, cool i wondered if many had a paint shield. mines had some spray work over the last year, i wondered about the benefits of paintshield vs the cost of a re-spray. might check that out. I need to find a meet over this year to catch up and see what others have done to their cars..

[billyboysm3]

At the moment Adem on the forum is putting reddish plates on our e46 m3 track car.

Going to put pictures in the build thread. He said its a £1k plus plates which are £200.

While it's dropped we are changing all bushes, 4:1 diff, rear camber arms, anti roll bars.

Son probably worth changing all diff bushes, rtab etc then geo.

[adem.csl]

Yeah we are doing reddish strengthening kits now it's a better option to removing the floor.if I could go back in time i would have done this.
Bmw are to incompetent and cack handed for a job like that they just don't care my car was ruined at bmw.for a job I could done better so be aware of getting your floor changes better option tweeks the crack and strengthen leave its original chassis as is

[0836whimper]

Ah, cool i wondered if many had a paint shield. mines had some spray work over the last year, i wondered about the benefits of paintshield vs the cost of a re-spray. might check that out. I need to find a meet over this year to catch up and see what others have done to their cars..

Technology marches on and the latest stuff is pretty fancy, you can 'heal it' with boiling water. Means you stop worrying about stone chips.

[J2LTB]

It is possible. I had the front end re-sprayed whilst the boot floor was being done and then had http://www.paintshield.co.uk/ put on the front and roof. And I'm very careful with the interior and it doesn't get driven in winter.

So even though it has the odd track outing (like Greyhounds, CSL's need a good run out) as long as you don't follow too closely behind a car spitting up gravel and also sort any issues as they arise, there's no reason why you can't to drive it properly and keep it looking mint.
ive been on their site and cant find any costs. Any idea on ££££ please

[0836whimper]

Paintshield Ultimate is not cheap, cost me several hundred quid.
But depends on what you want done, I got the roof, bumper and flippers etc.
Best thing is to give them a call and ask about specifics.
Their workshop is always full of cool cars :)

[J2LTB]

That's the price I thought it might be towards. Having my front bumper sprayed soon and thought about this as a preventative option .:thumbs:

[Marv968]

So I guess now I need to start a new thread called, has anyone used Redish Automotive for a crack fix? Elms are going to get me a quote on the floor, so i'll see what that comes in at and weigh up the pro's and cons. all part of not driving a boring car and having something interesting.

Redish did the floor repair on my car, using their plates. I'm very happy with the work they did.

I was a little bit skeptical about using welded on plates to begin with, so after watching all of their vids, I gave them a call and had a chat with James there and afterwards I was convinced that the level they go to, is so comprehensive that the cracks to never come back as an issue.

Here's their thread on my car:

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110460

[cps]

Redish did the floor repair on my car, using their plates. I'm very happy with the work they did.

I was a little bit skeptical about using welded on plates to begin with, so after watching all of their vids, I gave them a call and had a chat with James there and afterwards I was convinced that the level they go to, is so comprehensive that the cracks to never come back as an issue.

Here's their thread on my car:

http://forums.m3cutters.co.uk/showthread.php?t=110460

I had a chat with James at redish on friday. I asked him about some engineering principles and thoughts. They seem to have really taken time to think about it and cut up old floors to see what's happened.

I new this was a risk, but could not think of a car I wanted more within my budget,

Still Elms have been very helpful with the Clutch slur problem, and that's all fixed, just waiting for some last details, and then, probably be looking at Redish

[Monkey]

Yeah we are doing reddish strengthening kits now it's a better option to removing the floor.if I could go back in time i would have done this.
Bmw are to incompetent and cack handed for a job like that they just don't care my car was ruined at bmw.for a job I could done better so be aware of getting your floor changes better option tweeks the crack and strengthen leave its original chassis as is

I've fitted the Turner Motorsport kit too, it's nowhere near the quality of the Reddish motosport kit. Think I remember it's more expensive with the import duty from the States too.

Time will tell whether this is a long term solution or not, It took nearly 10 years for the original boot floor to exhibit a problem. Also worth remembering the quality of the kit is half the job, the person doing the job is the other half!

[cps]

I've fitted the Turner Motorsport kit too, it's nowhere near the quality of the Reddish motosport kit. Think I remember it's more expensive with the import duty from the States too.

Time will tell whether this is a long term solution or not, It took nearly 10 years for the original boot floor to exhibit a problem. Also worth remembering the quality of the kit is half the job, the person doing the job is the other half!
I'm picking the car up tomorrow from Elms and will get to have a look under the car as they will have it on the ramp for me to inspect, which I thought was handy. then the next steps starts