Are theses Rims genuine

[JBird]

Dear wheel experts.

These are being sold as "original CSL" rims. They are black on the outside, is that normal? Seller is claiming they are 100% original (not refurbed).

The black paint is making me think the seller doesn't know the history of them, even if they are BBS, but when I think about it, I don't think I have ever seen a set of new CSL rims without tyres on them. Thoughts?

Cheers.

[outnumbered]

Do they have BMW stamped around the centres ? That's usually a good sign. If not, they're definitely replicas. The black also looks suspicious to me.

[rstoughy]

Reps going by the pics

[Neil M]

Reps, beneath the 'M' badge it should be embossed 'BMW' :whistle:
They may be genuine BBS, but not BMW CSL's, reverse face should also be painted Grey if not refurbished. :thumbs:

[JBird]

Do they have BMW stamped around the centres ? That's usually a good sign. If not, they're definitely replicas. The black also looks suspicious to me.

I have asked for better pics, but don't have them yet. From the ones I posted, it looks like there is no "BMW" embossed under the M badge. Now that you mention it, my genuine set (and every other genuine set I have seen) always have BMW below the M badge. I won't bid on them - cheers for the help.

They are on fleabay here:
http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281425571141&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:DE:1123 (http://cgi.ebay.de/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=281425571141&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:DE:1123)

Either BBS have stopped putting BMW on them and someone is gonna pick up a bargain, or they are fake some sucker is prepared to pay 2-3x what copies are worth.

Cheers, will look elsewhere.

[Paul46rider]

No BMW stamps. 100% reps

[JBird]

OK, there are several posts half covering this, but it I thought it may be useful to get a sticky together covering how to identify genuine CSL rims. Could the gurus please correct me if I am wrong on any of this, then perhaps a mod make a sticky of it?

How to identify genuine BMW CSL Rims.

Firstly, they are made of aluminium, not MAGNESIUM.

Fronts
- They have part nr 2282650, are 8.5" x 19 x ET44 in size.
- Not to be confused with CS rims which have Part Nr 2282895 and are 8.0" x 19 x ET47 in size.
- The text "BMW - 2 282 650 - 81/2Jx19 - EH2 IS44 - RC 337" is embossed around the outer face as shown below, with the BMW below the M badge

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/1_Front_zpsc4b546d0.jpg

- On the reverse side, there are 8 triangular indentations with casting markings BBS and GERMANY in the first two. The marking in the rest will probably vary depending on the production batch, but some pictures below show what they could look like.

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/2_Fr_Inner_1_zps464f4bf3.jpg

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/3_Inner_zps32e6bb1a.jpg

- The mating face to the hub looks like this.
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/4_Fr_Mount_zps180910be.jpg


Rears
- They have part number 2282999, are 9.5" x 19 x ET27 in size.
- CS (ZCP package) uses same rear wheel as CSL.
- The text "BMW - 2 282 999- 91/2Jx19 - EH2 IS27 - RC 341" is embossed on the outer face as shown below.
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/1_Rear_Outers_zpsf9ec8c5c.jpg

- As per the fronts, the inner features 8 triangular indentations with casting markings BBS and GERMANY, and probably batch specific info in the other six.
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/2_Rear_Inners_zps68e1dabc.jpg

- The inside of genuine, brand spanking new non-refurbished rims is finished in a white/light grey primer colour, not hyper silver like the outer face of the rim. This can be seen in the previous pic.

******

Now this is where I am not sure. There are rear rims floating about with the part numbers 2282660 and 4508216 as shown in the pictures below.

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/4508216s_zps72e46df3.jpg

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/2282660s_zpsde1315f8.jpg

Were these supplied by BMW at some stage then superseded by 2282999? I'd say they just good fakes. As can be seen, the 660s don't have the BMW embossing, but the 4508216s do. I often see these for sale as genuine rims. Most people are pretty honest about copies, but theses are consistently advertised as genuine. Are they?

[NBTBRV8]

OK, there are several posts half covering this, but it I thought it may be useful to get a sticky together covering how to identify genuine CSL rims. Could the gurus please correct me if I am wrong on any of this, then perhaps a mod make a sticky of it?

How to identify genuine BMW CSL Rims.

Firstly, they are made of aluminium, not MAGNESIUM.

Fronts
- They have part nr 2282650, are 8.5" x 19 x ET44 in size.
- Not to be confused with CS rims which have Part Nr 2282895 and are 8.0" x 19 x ET47 in size.
- The text "BMW - 2 282 650 - 81/2Jx19 - EH2 IS44 - RC 337" is embossed around the outer face as shown below, with the BMW below the M badge

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/1_Front_zpsc4b546d0.jpg

- On the reverse side, there are 8 triangular indentations with casting markings BBS and GERMANY in the first two. The marking in the rest will probably vary depending on the production batch, but some pictures below show what they could look like.

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/2_Fr_Inner_1_zps464f4bf3.jpg

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/3_Inner_zps32e6bb1a.jpg

- The mating face to the hub looks like this.
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/4_Fr_Mount_zps180910be.jpg


Rears
- They have part number 2282999, are 9.5" x 19 x ET27 in size.
- CS (ZCP package) uses same rear wheel as CSL.
- The text "BMW - 2 282 999- 91/2Jx19 - EH2 IS27 - RC 341" is embossed on the outer face as shown below.
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/1_Rear_Outers_zpsf9ec8c5c.jpg

- As per the fronts, the inner features 8 triangular indentations with casting markings BBS and GERMANY, and probably batch specific info in the other six.
http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/2_Rear_Inners_zps68e1dabc.jpg

- The inside of genuine, brand spanking new non-refurbished rims is finished in a white/light grey primer colour, not hyper silver like the outer face of the rim. This can be seen in the previous pic.

******

Now this is where I am not sure. There are rear rims floating about with the part numbers 2282660 and 4508216 as shown in the pictures below.

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/4508216s_zps72e46df3.jpg

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/2282660s_zpsde1315f8.jpg

Were these supplied by BMW at some stage then superseded by 2282999? I'd say they just good fakes. As can be seen, the 660s don't have the BMW embossing, but the 4508216s do. I often see these for sale as genuine rims. Most people are pretty honest about copies, but theses are consistently advertised as genuine. Are they?

Great post. Hopefully it will be made sticky.

[JBird]

Here is an interesting spin on the situation. I just spoke to someone in the trade, who sells BBS CSL alloys, without the BMW embossing (part numbers Fr 2282650/ Re 2282660, patent symbol etc). He said BBS originally started producing these before BMW took up the licence. Once BMW took the licence, they started putting the BMW text on, and they could only be purchased through BMW. Because of the licence situation, BBS were never allowed to sell the original stock, and it has all been sitting there in storage ever since. BBS have now started off loading these to trade. They come in Black or Silver. Some resellers have a further finish (such as shadow chrome) applied locally.

This is what someone in the trade told me, who has a vested interest in moving the things. I don't know weather to believe this, but it would be nice if it were true, as they sell for around a grand a set, so about half what the stealers ask.

Lawsuit pending, or is the licence genuinely over?

Edit: Interestingly in the original press photos, there appears to no BMW Embossing, but there is some sort of blured text that may be say BMW. Might just be a photoshop effect, or perhaps it is a wheel produced prior to the licencing, and had BMW stamped in afterwards.

http://i928.photobucket.com/albums/ad130/JBirdCSL/5_Press_zpsbfe8c670.jpg

[portlandgrey]

I've just had a look at my rears, both 660's, both stamped?

[JBird]

I wonder if 660's were on the early production, then replaced by 999s later on, and what are the difference that led to the part number change?

...though I have the first UK car, and it has 999s.

[mattCSLnut]

I wonder if 660's were on the early production, then replaced by 999s later on, and what are the difference that led to the part number change?

...though I have the first UK car, and it has 999s.

Are you sure about that Jay ? :whistle: I thought Ben's (Ex Tinno's) was UK CSL No. 001... mine being UK CSL No. 002

[JBird]

I have the first car if you go by production date, and second if you go by VIN, so someone is fibbing :whistle: PM me your email for details.

[shimmy]

I wonder if 660's were on the early production, then replaced by 999s later on, and what are the difference that led to the part number change?

.

i think this is correct

[mattCSLnut]

I have the first car if you go by production date, and second if you go by VIN, so someone is fibbing :whistle: PM me your email for details.

I blame Neil M for the confusion ;) :whistle:

[mattCSLnut]

I wonder if 660's were on the early production, then replaced by 999s later on, and what are the difference that led to the part number change?


IIRC the later 999s are slightly heavier (around 12 kg each) and the inner rear lip is slightly different.
Mine has the 660's (10.6 kg each) being the 2nd UK CSL :thumbs:

[JBird]

Mine has the 660's

With or without the BMW text below the M badge?

[mattCSLnut]

With or without the BMW text below the M badge?

:smokin:

[JBird]

:thumbs:

We'll get to the bottom of this eventually.

Are your fronts different too then, or are they 650s?

[mattCSLnut]

:thumbs:

We'll get to the bottom of this eventually.

Are your fronts different too then, or are they 650s?
No, both of my fronts are 2 282 650 :thumbs:

[0836whimper]

Just to add further confusion....mine is a very early VIN and has 999's on the back and 650's on the front... :clown:

[JBird]

No confusion, that is the normal case (as per #001 :whistle:)

(just Matt just has some oddball light weight ones - once BMW realised they cracked and let go violently they beefed up the lip and called them 2282999)

[mattCSLnut]

No confusion, that is the normal case (as per #001 :whistle:)

(just Matt just has some oddball light weight ones - once BMW realised they cracked and let go violently they beefed up the lip and called them 2282999)

11 years and 90K miles says otherwise :thumbs: