Dealer - Airbox removal problem

[sonu]

Hi all,

some advice please. My car is in for insp II. The auth dealer phoned to tell me that they are unable to remove the airbox due to a bolt that has been misthreaded and they are scared that they may break the airbox if they try and remove it.

Has anyone heard of this kind of issue before?
Is it difficult to remove the airbox?

They are quoting me 5 grand to replace the airbox if they damage it.

[karbonkid]

Which bolt are they referring to and have they removed a CSL Airbox before?

[Monkey]

I'm guessing its the torx screws that secure the 2 bits of airbox together. It's pretty straight forward if your intake flap is not fitted, you can reach the captivated nuts through the intake and hold them with some grips.

Sounds like they need to remove the flap if possible and do it that way if the flap is fitted.

Seen this a few times. Where there's a will there's a way:)

[sonu]

thanks for the replys, guys.

Don't think they've removed the box before.

Monkey, thanks for the tip, will pass it on.

Why is the airbox removed for insp II?

Any recommended auth dealers in Kent or SE London who know CSLs?

[sailorbaz]

They'll need to remove the airbox to replace the airfilter. Yours sounds like it might be needing it since if the bolts are seized, how long has it been since the airbox was removed?

[Pip1968]

Monkey, thanks for the tip, will pass it on.

Why is the airbox removed for insp II?

Any recommended auth dealers in Kent or SE London who know CSLs?

Your answer is in the question ie Monkey at Munich Legends near East Grinstead.

Pip

[Das Chin]

get the car out of there before they break.

what a bloody cheek asking you to pay if they break it. BMW dealers are awful with CSLs unless its one that knows them like Elms, Murketts or Synters.

I would go to a specialist if I were you . even if still in warranty. I know a really good garage I use in Dartford and have looked after all my cars for years.

[sonu]

Das Chin,

which Sytner garage would that be please?

[Das Chin]

Sytner high Wycombe were always brilliant.

sent you email about the specialist in Dartford.

[shane@mbtech]

get the car out of there before they break.

what a bloody cheek asking you to pay if they break it. BMW dealers are awful with CSLs unless its one that knows them like Elms, Murketts or Synters.

I would go to a specialist if I were you . even if still in warranty. I know a really good garage I use in Dartford and have looked after all my cars for years.

If a rusty bolt sheers why is that the dealers fault?

It's not the dealers bolt, car or rust.

[Das Chin]

if they break the box getting the bolt out then surely its in their care and duty not to break it.

hence the reason to get it out of there if they just quote big numbers at you and can't do the job.

[plumber vic]

Take it to ML

[AlexGTT]

if they break the box getting the bolt out then surely its in their care and duty not to break it.

hence the reason to get it out of there if they just quote big numbers at you and can't do the job.

To be fair, they have been quite responsible telling you the risk. You'd be far more pissed off if it broke and then they ring you saying you'll have to have a new airbox.

OK, a good mechanic can find his way around such an issue but as Shane said, the condition of the component they're working on is not their fault.

Sorry, sounds like they're doing the right thing to me.

[cslsuperfan]

I'm guessing its the torx screws that secure the 2 bits of airbox together. It's pretty straight forward if your intake flap is not fitted, you can reach the captivated nuts through the intake and hold them with some grips.

Sounds like they need to remove the flap if possible and do it that way if the flap is fitted.

Seen this a few times. Where there's a will there's a way:)

James I think ML will see a bit more csl traffic now Elms is losing its talisman.

Have you seen John's csl at ML since Munich?

[Monkey]

James I think ML will see a bit more csl traffic now Elms is losing its talisman.

Have you seen John's csl at ML since Munich?

Hello, Yes I saw John yesterday actually. Had a seized rear caliper so did that and the rear brakes.

It may well be that ML see more CSL's, difficult to say.

Sadly I wont be there to see them, as I'm moving to pastures new as well as Gareth. The technician merry go round starts! I'm moving back into the main dealer network, at Chandlers Brighton.

I've loved working on all the CSL's, and it's especially been nice meeting people from the Munich trip again. I hope everyone has been happy with the cars I've worked on at ML:)

[billyboysm3]

Hello, Yes I saw John yesterday actually. Had a seized rear caliper so did that and the rear brakes.

It may well be that ML see more CSL's, difficult to say.

Sadly I wont be there to see them, as I'm moving to pastures new as well as Gareth. The technician merry go round starts! I'm moving back into the main dealer network, at Chandlers Brighton.

I've loved working on all the CSL's, and it's especially been nice meeting people from the Munich trip again. I hope everyone has been happy with the cars I've worked on at ML:)

Good luck and good to know for main dealer servicing

[LeinsCSL]

Best of luck with the new move James

[rstoughy]

I had one of those torx bolts shear on my insp ll. I drilled out the broken part however the captive nut part inside the airbox sheared off when using the easy out. Its just bonded on so a little mix of araldite, a new bolt and a bit of patience and its good as new. Don't be scared of it just be careful.

[giraffe]

Hello, Yes I saw John yesterday actually. Had a seized rear caliper so did that and the rear brakes.

It may well be that ML see more CSL's, difficult to say.

Sadly I wont be there to see them, as I'm moving to pastures new as well as Gareth. The technician merry go round starts! I'm moving back into the main dealer network, at Chandlers Brighton.

I've loved working on all the CSL's, and it's especially been nice meeting people from the Munich trip again. I hope everyone has been happy with the cars I've worked on at ML:)

Change alround then . Good luck with the new job mate 😃

[sonu]

Really can't believe this.

Dealer said that would not start work on my car until I gave them permission.
I phoned them this morning and told them not to do anything as I would be taking it elsewhere.

Late in the afternoon they phone me and tell me that they have done insp II apart from the air filter and they will not charge me for the filter change.

They have carried out work without my permission - is there anything I can do?

[Monkey]

Change alround then . Good luck with the new job mate ��

Thanks Gareth, I've worked there before so not a step into the unkown. I hope your move works out for you, I had a nosey on their website, looks like a decent place:)

I always find it strange how one tech moves and it triggers a whole merry go round of people moving jobs!

And thanks to all other best wishes, very kind. Of course I'd still be happy to work on CSL's at Chandlers; )

Sonu, if they've done work without your authorisation, you have a right not to pay. However if you're happy the rest of the work has been done satisfactorily, its probably easier just to settle up and get the air box sorted elsewhere.

[giraffe]

Thanks Gareth, I've worked there before so not a step into the unkown. I hope your move works out for you, I had a nosey on their website, looks like a decent place:)

I always find it strange how one tech moves and it triggers a whole merry go round of people moving jobs!

I have also worked with this guy before as he was a tech at Murketts and he set up himself 5years ago after getting made redundant and has done a good job building his business up , hopefully I can help his business move forward and see what the future brings .

Your not wrong about triggering people moving jobs found out a guy I worked with 7 years ago is starting at Elms week after I leave .

[giraffe]

Really can't believe this.

Dealer said that would not start work on my car until I gave them permission.
I phoned them this morning and told them not to do anything as I would be taking it elsewhere.

Late in the afternoon they phone me and tell me that they have done insp II apart from the air filter and they will not charge me for the filter change.

They have carried out work without my permission - is there anything I can do?

When you dropped the car off I guess you would have signed the job card which had something like carry out inspection 2 on the front , by signing this you have given them permission . The Tech was probably a fair way into the service before finding air box issue and would carry on with the service just not touching airbox until further autho from yourself was granted

[sonu]

When you dropped the car off I guess you would have signed the job card which had something like carry out inspection 2 on the front , by signing this you have given them permission . The Tech was probably a fair way into the service before finding air box issue and would carry on with the service just not touching airbox until further autho from yourself was granted

yes, this is probably the case. I'm just amazed at the poor comms that go on in some of the dealers. Is the air filter something I can leave until the next inspection?

[Neil M]

If replacement of the air filter is part of the Inspection 2 procedure and it hasn't been replaced for whatever reason, then technically and legally they have not carried out the Inspection 2 Service, despite having done 80/90% of the work required.

They can't legally sign it of as having been completed under BMW's own terms of Service and charge you for it. Deducting the cost of an air filter from the cost of an Inspection 2 is unacceptable. Be prepared for an argument :whistle:

[shimmy]

Really can't believe this.

Dealer said that would not start work on my car until I gave them permission.
I phoned them this morning and told them not to do anything as I would be taking it elsewhere.

Late in the afternoon they phone me and tell me that they have done insp II apart from the air filter and they will not charge me for the filter change.

They have carried out work without my permission - is there anything I can do?

Fuck me cant please some people. You wanted an inspection 2 and you have it. You don't want your airbox knackered and you have it still in one piece. Pay your bill and ask for the free filter and ask them to sign the inspection 2 fully and take the car away and get your cranky bolt fixed and put the filter in yourself or with some help.

Ffs

[sonu]

Fuck me cant please some people. You wanted an inspection 2 and you have it. You don't want your airbox knackered and you have it still in one piece. Pay your bill and ask for the free filter and ask them to sign the inspection 2 fully and take the car away and get your cranky bolt fixed and put the filter in yourself or with some help.

Ffs

No thanks, Shimmy I would not like to fuck you. Fail to see how any of this is my fault?

[shimmy]

No thanks, Shimmy I would not like to fuck you. Fail to see how any of this is my fault?

Well it's your car and your faulty bolt. As far as I can see they were just being cautious. They could have just ploughed ahead with the airbox and it still would have been your problem.

Te Insp 2 you wanted and is done so what's the big shakes

[glendog74]

Well it's your car and your faulty bolt. As far as I can see they were just being cautious. They could have just ploughed ahead with the airbox and it still would have been your problem.

Te Insp 2 you wanted and is done so what's the big shakes

+1 :thumbs:

[s.mac]

I can't see a problem here? They've done inspection 2 as asked to do and left a bit as they and you don't want any damage. I would ask for a filter and get you're book stamped.

Easy to change filter, as Paul says be careful and drill it out or remove the flap and do it that way. There are plenty of photos in the tech bit to follow. Just make sure you do change it.

Sounds to me as the dealer is spot on with their actions :)

[s.mac]

If I can change a filter anyone can!

[karbonkid]

Regards to removing ceased torx screw I would remove flap as mentioned - allowing you access to the nut on the inside, attach spanner to nut and try undoing the torx screw with some force. Being a torx screw you will be able to apply quite a bit of force without cross threading the head. You may need a extra set of hands.
If this doesn't free, drilling it through is your only option or dremel'ing the nut vertically from the inside would be my next step allowing you to pull the torx screw cleanly through the top of the airbox.

[sonu]

thanks for the replies guys. Agree to differ with you guys implying I may be over reacting. If the dealer phones me up and asks me to be liable for 5k worth of damage, how am I supposed to respond?

Got in touch with BMW UK and they've spoken to the dealer. Dealer said they will do the work. Feel better with this as now BMW are involved and also I have not agreed to pay 5k if they screw things up.

[shimmy]

thanks for the replies guys. Agree to differ with you guys implying I may be over reacting. If the dealer phones me up and asks me to be liable for 5k worth of damage, how am I supposed to respond?

Got in touch with BMW UK and they've spoken to the dealer. Dealer said they will do the work. Feel better with this as now BMW are involved and also I have not agreed to pay 5k if they screw things up.


Good result, but effectively they have told you about a previous problem with the car and it is your problem even if they damage the box. Sometimes you have to just take responsibility for things in life and accept life has a cost and risk and don't expect the paperboy to replace your broken letterbox.

[sonu]

Good result, but effectively they have told you about a previous problem with the car and it is your problem even if they damage the box. Sometimes you have to just take responsibility for things in life and accept life has a cost and risk and don't expect the paperboy to replace your broken letterbox.

Agree to differ. Don't think it's my problem. I've maintained and serviced the car according to BMW advice and have extended warranty. If BMW have designed access to the airbox in such a way that it can be easily damaged then they should be responsible. Trying to pass the 5k cost on to the customer is unacceptable to me.

[alexk]

Which world are you living in ?

If vnw designed the airbox in such a way...
What you said is ridiculous

[AlexGTT]

Fuck me cant please some people. You wanted an inspection 2 and you have it. You don't want your airbox knackered and you have it still in one piece. Pay your bill and ask for the free filter and ask them to sign the inspection 2 fully and take the car away and get your cranky bolt fixed and put the filter in yourself or with some help.

Ffs

Getting fookin' grumpy in his old age. :hahaha: But I do agree with the hairy monster.

[shimmy]

Agree to differ. Don't think it's my problem. I've maintained and serviced the car according to BMW advice and have extended warranty. If BMW have designed access to the airbox in such a way that it can be easily damaged then they should be responsible. Trying to pass the 5k cost on to the customer is unacceptable to me.

Ok.


Which world are you living in ?

If vnw designed the airbox in such a way...
What you said is ridiculous

Ok


Getting fookin' grumpy in his old age. :hahaha: But I do agree with the hairy monster.

Ok






I'm a bit nervous today, on edge :)

[alexk]

Ok.




Ok




Ok






I'm a bit nervous today, on edge :)

I was referring to the op

[plumber vic]

Fuck me cant please some people. You wanted an inspection 2 and you have it. You don't want your airbox knackered and you have it still in one piece. Pay your bill and ask for the free filter and ask them to sign the inspection 2 fully and take the car away and get your cranky bolt fixed and put the filter in yourself or with some help.

Ffs

It's the time of the month
But must agree

[s.mac]

Race day Shimmy, I've looked on TSL but can't see anything :(

[shimmy]

Race day Shimmy, I've looked on TSL but can't see anything :(

sunday modern classics race at 3:40iirc

[AlexGTT]

Ok.




Ok




Ok






I'm a bit nervous today, on edge :)

It'll be all good on the day big man. Enjoy and remember, your team mates.;) He's the only one you need to be faster than.:hahaha:

[Equinox]

THis thread must be some kind of joke, The dealer called to to say "by the way we have an issue with a bolt and we dont want to remove it because we may damage thre airbox, if you want us to then we can but if the airbox is damaged then it could get expensive"

If only all dealers were so thoughtfull, sometimes cars have problems and as an owner of the car you have to recognise that regardless of service history its your problem, if that an airbox screw or a sump plug that pulls the threads when its removed these things any reasonable person must understand its not the garages fault but sometimes shit happens... Imagine yourself in their shoes for a second,,,,what would you do differently ??

[alexk]

THis thread must be some kind of joke, The dealer called to to say "by the way we have an issue with a bolt and we dont want to remove it because we may damage thre airbox, if you want us to then we can but if the airbox is damaged then it could get expensive"

If only all dealers were so thoughtfull, sometimes cars have problems and as an owner of the car you have to recognise that regardless of service history its your problem, if that an airbox screw or a sump plug that pulls the threads when its removed these things any reasonable person must understand its not the garages fault but sometimes shit happens... Imagine yourself in their shoes for a second,,,,what would you do differently ??

Spot on !
Plus the fact that they say this in advance clearly demonstrates that they are very careful and they didn't cause any damage.
They clearly highlight the issue and the risk that it carries.
I don't get it why people complain about when someone is professional.
I clearly had to laugh at the statement, if bmw designed the airbox wrong then bmw should pay for it.

On this topic, airbox opening, my dealer here in Zurich cracked a lower part of the airbox while replacing the filter and they said nothing.
I realized a year later when I removed the airfilter and I saw the small (thank God) damage which I repaired on my own.
It's no rocket science to remove the carbon intake but someone fecked it up and said nothing !
Let alone finding bolts in the undercarriage (not bolts missing from my car) :hahaha:
You can guess that I was not impressed at all and at the same time I could not make a claim 1 year later.
I changed dealership... and specifically the CSL is only being touched by me or my brother's dealership.

[sonu]

THis thread must be some kind of joke, The dealer called to to say "by the way we have an issue with a bolt and we dont want to remove it because we may damage thre airbox, if you want us to then we can but if the airbox is damaged then it could get expensive"

If only all dealers were so thoughtfull, sometimes cars have problems and as an owner of the car you have to recognise that regardless of service history its your problem, if that an airbox screw or a sump plug that pulls the threads when its removed these things any reasonable person must understand its not the garages fault but sometimes shit happens... Imagine yourself in their shoes for a second,,,,what would you do differently ??

Never said it was the garage's fault, please don't miss quote me. It's a design flaw that BMW have to be accountable for.

[_Nathan_]

A mis-threaded bolt is not a design flaw.

Even if it were a design flaw, an issue that only occurs 11 years after the car was made isn't something BMW would give give a fuck about.

[s.mac]

_Nathan_ A mis-threaded bolt is not a design flaw.

Even if it were a design flaw, an issue that only occurs 11 years after the car was made isn't something BMW would give give a fuck about.


A bit like this thread ;)

[mattCSLnut]

THis thread must be some kind of joke, The dealer called to to say "by the way we have an issue with a bolt and we dont want to remove it because we may damage thre airbox, if you want us to then we can but if the airbox is damaged then it could get expensive"

If only all dealers were so thoughtfull, sometimes cars have problems and as an owner of the car you have to recognise that regardless of service history its your problem, if that an airbox screw or a sump plug that pulls the threads when its removed these things any reasonable person must understand its not the garages fault but sometimes shit happens... Imagine yourself in their shoes for a second, what would you do differently ??

Well said that man :thumbs: Hopefully this puts an end to the utterly pointless tread... " Mis-threaded bolt is a design flaw " ... :hahaha: :smt082 :hahaha: sounds like something off Cutters ;)

[sonu]

Love the mis quoting going on here. The CSL is a perfectly made machine.

If this thread is pointless, don't post on it, simple.

[shimmy]

Love the mis quoting going on here. The CSL is a perfectly made machine.

If this thread is pointless, don't post on it, simple.

:smokin:

[glendog74]

:smokin:

:smokin: :smokin: :thumbs:

[sonu]

Update from dealer, will try and add the photo taken later on as cannot process images at work. Hopefully there's no damage to the airbox:

"Hi
Great news, it’s out and problem over . Our Master Tech will conclude the work later today and will road test the car personally
Photo below shows the removed bolt hole, arrowed
The other bolts are removed too, and we’ve some new ones arriving today
We just need to bond the securing nut in to place, and we’re there"

Thanks to the guys who gave positive suggestions.

[sonu]

Another update:

I asked dealer:

So no damage to the airbox? – If so, very good.
How did you guys remove the nut?
Was it rusted or mis-threaded?


Dealer reply:

No damage, so very good indeed.

Nut had come adrift from it’s bonding and was really tight; a combination of a strange corrosion and a tight thread the probable cause, impossible to say for sure, and that’s why we’ll replace all of those bolts for good measure

Removal of some trunkings and flaps gave us a “through the letter-box” access, and a 2-man effort secured the nut and removed the bolt. Once out, cleaning and re-bonding the nut to keep everything original was straightforward. The new bolts will be to original spec

[cslsuperfan]

Another update:

I asked dealer:

So no damage to the airbox? – If so, very good.
How did you guys remove the nut?
Was it rusted or mis-threaded?


Dealer reply:

No damage, so very good indeed.

Nut had come adrift from it’s bonding and was really tight; a combination of a strange corrosion and a tight thread the probable cause, impossible to say for sure, and that’s why we’ll replace all of those bolts for good measure

Removal of some trunkings and flaps gave us a “through the letter-box” access, and a 2-man effort secured the nut and removed the bolt. Once out, cleaning and re-bonding the nut to keep everything original was straightforward. The new bolts will be to original spec


I'm glad you got it sorted and everyone's HP!

[shimmy]

Update from dealer, will try and add the photo taken later on as cannot process images at work. Hopefully there's no damage to the airbox:

"Hi
Great news, it’s out and problem over . Our Master Tech will conclude the work later today and will road test the car personally
Photo below shows the removed bolt hole, arrowed
The other bolts are removed too, and we’ve some new ones arriving today
We just need to bond the securing nut in to place, and we’re there"

Thanks to the guys who gave suggestions that I wanted to hear .

EFA. :whistle:

[billyboysm3]

And p.s we kerbed one of your alloys