Autoexpess:BMW M235i vs BMW M3 CSL video

[MKoop]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/2-series/86645/bmw-m235i-vs-bmw-m3-csl-video-track-battle

[Rick H]

http://www.autoexpress.co.uk/bmw/2-series/86645/bmw-m235i-vs-bmw-m3-csl-video-track-battle

Excellant spot - thanks for this.

The times are the same, but the experience is totally different. He seemed disinterested in the 235 - as if it was something he had to do rather than wanted to do. It didn't get under his skin like the CSL.

Nice the see CSLs being quoted at £30-35k, last year it was £25-30k :)

[LeinsCSL]

Nice find Shane :thumbs:

[Trawler]

Nice. Thought he over played the brakes on the csl.

M235 nice daily drive, but csl something special. Not bad for a car coming up to its 11th birthday.

[Neil M]

Well thanks for that, my pension is sorted! :thumbs:
I wonder will they put it up against the M235i 'Racing' when that eventually comes along? Would be interesting to see the comparisons.

[Clubber]

I am quite disappointed actually. It is either the turbo tech improved massively over the years or he wasn't pushing the CSL (although it looked like he did)

I mean, if a less powerful (significantly), less track focused, manual shifting, heavier half bred M car can match the hardcore values of the CSL then this is a disaster outcome...

[shimmy]

Not sure how the M135 compares to the M235 but at Bedford on Saturday three of us will be running the M135 timed to compare against my cSL times, which will be real world comparison, no back handers!

[northernjim]

I am quite disappointed actually. It is either the turbo tech improved massively over the years or he wasn't pushing the CSL (although it looked like he did)

I mean, if a less powerful (significantly), less track focused, manual shifting, heavier half bred M car can match the hardcore values of the CSL then this is a disaster outcome...



M235 had nice new michelin supersport tyres on it - the csl was not on cup's....

[shimmy]

M235 had nice new michelin supersport tyres on it - the csl was not on cup's....

Even so what a load of old bollox......."I'm gonna be careful on the brakes"

Betya BMw are happy and got their money's worth

[cslsuperfan]

Even so what a load of old bollox......."I'm gonna be careful on the brakes"

Betya BMw are happy and got their money's worth


Agreed.... "being careful with the brakes, she's an old girl" ....TWAT;)

[mattCSLnut]

According to the "AutoExpress" jernos, the M3 CSL was launched in 2004 ?! :clown:
This must make all of our Cecils Pre production cars :thumbs: ... and even more special :supz:

[Levente]

http://x2.fjcdn.com/comments/It+may+make+me+a+bad+person+but+I+wouldn+t+_cee298 51f19cefba0ca3d87660be0113.jpg

no cups? ooookay...

[dave wilkinson]

Lighten up, you all sound like women :bigcry:
Personally thought it was a good video. :beer:

[Rick H]

Agreed.... "being careful with the brakes, she's an old girl" ....TWAT;)

161 BMW had been ragged for all of its 20k+ miles so would hardly be troubled here.

The time is a moot point, regarding the CSL he uses the word "beautiful" 5 or 6 times and the "love" word, he's totally engrossed in the experience and then talks about the investment potential.

He makes the point at the end that for everyday use the 235 is a better option, but it's such an obvious conclusion I can't believe he was paid to state it.

[0836whimper]

That's engine noise...that's induction noise :smt055 No need for a stereo input there.

Astonishing engine, fantastic chassis, appreciating asset. An absolute joy to lap in.

What's not to like ? (I don't really care if it's not the fastest in 2014).

The M235i is just 'nice'....which is code for dull.

[Rick H]

That's engine noise...that's induction noise :smt055 No need for a stereo input there.

Astonishing engine, fantastic chassis, appreciating asset. An absolute joy to lap in.

What's not to like ? (I don't really care if it's not the fastest in 2014).

The M235i is just 'nice'....which is code for dull.

Lets see the M235i Ring time . . .

[GregorJP]

Having not driven my CSL for 6 months, this video made me want to get her out of the box and give her a good spanking.

Personally, I don't think it's a worthy comparison - two very different propositions. What's certain is that BMW has a history of under-braking their cars. And I don't desire an M235 one bit.

If I was going to produce a video for public consumption, I think I would pay more attention to my outfit than that guy did. He's a cross between Bill Oddie and Man At Milletts. :bigcry:

[Rick H]

Having not driven my CSL for 6 months, this video made me want to get her out of the box and give her a good spanking.

Personally, I don't think it's a worthy comparison - two very different propositions. What's certain is that BMW has a history of under-braking their cars. And I don't desire an M235 one bit.

If I was going to produce a video for public consumption, I think I would pay more attention to my outfit than that guy did. He's a cross between Bill Oddie and Man At Milletts. :bigcry:

Like Murray's taxi driver in this vid?

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=hEXkkDdmPhM

[Clubber]

M235 had nice new michelin supersport tyres on it - the csl was not on cup's....

That's no excuse. With all its technical advantages, it shouldn't come down to tyre choice IMO. I was expecting 2-3s lead for CSL.

[shimmy]

That's no excuse. With all its technical advantages, it shouldn't come down to tyre choice IMO. I was expecting 2-3s lead for CSL.

I was at Bedford today and I reckon M135/CSL was 6-8 secs difference over a 2m lap.

We will see what M135 does on Saturday HoW Fast circuit again our CSL times.

[cslsuperfan]

I was at Bedford today and I reckon M135/CSL was 6-8 secs difference over a 2m lap.

We will see what M135 does on Saturday HoW Fast circuit again our CSL times.

csl 6-8 secs difference (quicker than 135) or other way.

[shimmy]

csl 6-8 secs difference (quicker than 135) or other way.

Of course CSL is quicker :blalalala:

[cslsuperfan]

Of course CSL is quicker :blalalala:


Mega!! I was expecting the 135 to be a little swifter...11 years newer blah,blah

great news shim

PS 6 secs quicker at Bedford.......good skills...must be the intrax:gayfight:

definitely next purchase.

[shimmy]

Mega!! I was expecting the 135 to be a little swifter...11 years newer blah,blah

great news shim

PS 6 secs quicker at Bedford.......good skills...must be the intrax:gayfight:

definitely next purchase.

True test will be Saturday though as I have my CSL time for west circuit recorded by MSV as 1m22.5s and M135 will be there and I'm not expecting it to be any better than 1m25.0s

[cslsuperfan]

True test will be Saturday though as I have my CSL time for west circuit recorded by MSV as 1m22.5s and M135 will be there and I'm not expecting it to be any better than 1m25.0s

Looking forward to the stats :thumbs:

[deanobeano]

Yes, roll on Saturday:supz:

[Curly]

True test will be Saturday though as I have my CSL time for west circuit recorded by MSV as 1m22.5s and M135 will be there and I'm not expecting it to be any better than 1m25.0s

That wasn't a standard csl shim;)
The standard csl time is around 1.27!:whistle:

[shimmy]

That wasn't a standard csl shim;)
The standard csl time is around 1.27!:whistle:

I see where you are going :)

Tbh on west circuit the AP make no difference, as only one lap at speed. The Cups are OeM and the only mod which helps is the SUSPENSION....?...and what suspension do you have on the M135 :whistle:

[Curly]

I see where you are going :)

Tbh on west circuit the AP make no difference, as only one lap at speed. The Cups are OeM and the only mod which helps is the SUSPENSION....?...and what suspension do you have on the M135 :whistle:

The comfy type :smokin:

[Fasteddie]

I see where you are going :)

Tbh on west circuit the AP make no difference, as only one lap at speed. The Cups are OeM and the only mod which helps is the SUSPENSION....?...and what suspension do you have on the M135 :whistle:

APs not making a difference over a knowingly underbraked car on a track:whistle:
Tbf, they should have been on the car in the first place!

[alexk]

APs not making a difference over a knowingly underbraked car on a track:whistle:
Tbf, they should have been on the car in the first place!

If you have race brake pads, no.
They won't improve the laptime as the car will not brake faster.

[alexk]

As a comment on this sort of pointless comparison.

I don't think the M235i is anywhere near a CSL on a track.
A fair comparison would be with the CSL having the proper cup tyres and some proper brake pads.

This video is clearly advertising the new product.
BMW is successful in selling/marketing the new m-wannabe products.
Everyday I see at least 3-4 m135i on the way to and back from work.

The M235i racing is a very nice car and I would like to buy one in a few years.
But that's a racing car right ? ;)

[devam]

So he couldn't let the CSL win, so as not to embarrass BMW and not get another car to review from them? Why did the clock change from the csl time above to both times rolling?

[shimmy]

If you have race brake pads, no.
They won't improve the laptime as the car will not brake faster.

Absolutely right Alex.

[LeinsCSL]

I'm sure this M235i would stuff an M1 or E30 SE around a track, even with all their race heritage and pricey prices these days, but I know what I'd rather have

Wouldn't mind one of these things as a daily hacker though

[shimmy]

Here is the M135 with Evo clocking a 1m26.6s round the Evo West Circuit at Bedford. Driver looks half decent (unlike the M235 dullard)

Looks like my predictions of 1m 25 might be a bit optimistic but still looking poor against the CSL 1m22.5

http://youtu.be/Wjo0o-M35GQ

[digi]

Here is the M135 with Evo clocking a 1m26.6s round the Evo West Circuit at Bedford. Driver looks half decent (unlike the M235 dullard)

Looks like my predictions of 1m 25 might be a bit optimistic but still looking poor against the CSL 1m22.5

:smokin::smokin::smokin::finga:

[digi]

Guys, if anyone lends a cescil to a tester, pls could you inform the tester to disconnect the battery the night before prior to the test. They won't complaint too much about the SMG then.

You can hear the SMG in the video dragging itself (slur) on the up-shifts. I get this when I don't disconnect (prior pussy footing it in town). If I disconnect the night before and go for a blast the next day, the shifts are brutal and fast. I have the R35 too, so have a reference for fast gearboxes, but when the SMG is in no compromise (slur) mode, its plenty quick.

Anyone know a SMG tuner to that can re-flash back a no compromise SMG shift program?

[shimmy]

My best was 1m 28.6 (2 secs slower than Evo) partof which will be it is hard to drive at speed (and I am not that good) and partly coz we had the full HOW FAST cones out which limit the kerb use almost to zero. First part of the circuit it probably has little effect but second half will have a huge difference on times.

Overall the car has power, great little engine, good manual gearbox, good dsc bit lacks a little grip, has woolly steering and no diff (prob all designed to stop t bein like an M car)

Curly and Alex both out there as well in their M135 and also Oneill in his S2000 going great guns.

[O'Neill]

Didn't think the S would stand a chance, 1:26.8 ain't bad, would have been quicker if I didn't keep getting held up by M135s on the practice laps;)

[s1csl]

Didn't think the S would stand a chance, 1:26.8 ain't bad, would have been quicker if I didn't keep getting held up by M135s on the practice laps;)

How do you think the CSL would compare on the clock against the BMW 1M with cup tyres on it

[alexk]

How do you think the CSL would compare on the clock against the BMW 1M with cup tyres on it

5 secs faster the CSL.

Joking aside, the 1 M is much slower at the Ring and Hockenheim.
I don't think the two cars have the same pace.

[s1csl]

5 secs faster the CSL.

Joking aside, the 1 M is much slower at the Ring and Hockenheim.
I don't think the two cars have the same pace.
Is that because of the extra 20bhp the CSL has over the 1M or the weight or both as these are power tracks

[alexk]

Is that because of the extra 20bhp the CSL has over the 1M or the weight or both as these are power tracks

The Hockenheim short is not a power track.
I think it's the overall effectiveness of the CSL.
It's lighter, better balanced. A better track weapon.
The what if scenarios are many of course (if the 1M has suspension, if it has lightweight seats, if it has better tyres).
Even with cup tyres I don't see it being faster than a CSL.

I think the new M3/M4 stand a good chance being faster than the CSL as they are very well engineered.
Let's see the numbers as the initially claimed less than 1500kg turned out to be 1600ish :119:

[shimmy]

How do you think the CSL would compare on the clock against the BMW 1M with cup tyres on it

Not sure but Curly, Alex, ONeill and me were all driving past one regularly on Saturday at Bedford West.

[$w!ft]

1m14 sec something for the 135i...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UFQRy6KCEBs

[E46CSL]

Not sure but Curly, Alex, ONeill and me were all driving past one regularly on Saturday at Bedford West.


1M with 100kgs less would a be better..

At the 'Ring, CSL's look/sound spectacular - the 1M not so.

[AlexGTT]

Not sure but Curly, Alex, ONeill and me were all driving past one regularly on Saturday at Bedford West.

1M with 100kgs less would a be better..

At the 'Ring, CSL's look/sound spectacular - the 1M not so.

Was good fun on Saturday but Barry smoked us in the hairdresser car. :gayfight:

1M was not being driven well and was a fair bit slower. I'm guessing in good hands it would be 1.26's, no doubt.

I was 1.8 - 2 seconds a lap slower than Shim and Curly. My best was 1m 30.4. But pleasingly I was improving with every lap, my two timed laps were my best and the second lap faster than the first. Having not driven the West before I was pleased and really enjoyed it. Hated the cones though. No curbs at all and the back chicane was massively slower as a result.

I didn't like the steering much and it felt very held back traction control wise, even in Sport+. Brakes way better than my E90 M3 but pedal too soft for my liking.

Suspension also too soft and quite a bit of roll. Feels like a 2CV to me after the CSL! Set up for safe understeer which I hate. I started off trying to be ultra smooth because it felt so soft but on my last two laps I just started to get a bit more aggressive and began to overcome the understeer with the back coming more into play. With more time that could improve my times a little. I was just starting to learn the track a bit.

Overall, very impressive motor. The engine is great and sounded good. Flappy box is awesome, snappy changes and hooked a gear up or down exactly as asked. Best auto box I've ever driven by miles.

Tyres being changed this week! Did well to hang on after 13,000 road miles but truly shagged now. Also have to look into something to give more camber.