Subframe floor cracked NO goodwill warranty

[leaded]

Boot floor has cracked in two places, BMW dealer has put in the warranty request and it has been denied. Car over the 10 year goodwill period. Registered Sept 03.

Spoke to customer services and escalated the claim and explained my case 'not fit for purpose' 'US civil case' 'Problem since new that they knew about since 2003' etc etc but got no where.

I have the contact for BMW UKs legal team and the managing director.

What to do next? Any ideas?

1. Suck it up, pay to have it fixed and move on
2. Get solicitor to write a letter to the legal team stating my case 'not fit for purpose case' and take the UK MD to small claims court?

I know two dealers well, one of which has done over 30 subframe floor repairs, another 10. Has there been or can we put together a private list of all cars that have had a repair done, the chassis number and mileage.

I presume there is a legal reason why BMW chose 10 years and I'm sure their legal team have got this covered.

It's rather frustrating having to pay the bill for BMWs design flaw that should have been rectified when they first discovered the problem in 2003.

Sadly many other people are now going to find themselves in this position in the future.

[Brendanmck]

Although my own car is showing no sign of cracks to its subframe I've had this conversation with my local dealer and all the signals from them was they ere not interested goodwill guesture or not they just state that cars registered pre 04 have 6 year corrosion warranty(which the subframe repair falls under) cars after that have 12 year cover a bit shit I know even though all cars where built in 03.

[Monkey]

Boot floor has cracked in two places, BMW dealer has put in the warranty request and it has been denied. Car over the 10 year goodwill period. Registered Sept 03.

Spoke to customer services and escalated the claim and explained my case 'not fit for purpose' 'US civil case' 'Problem since new that they knew about since 2003' etc etc but got no where.

I have the contact for BMW UKs legal team and the managing director.

What to do next? Any ideas?

1. Suck it up, pay to have it fixed and move on
2. Get solicitor to write a letter to the legal team stating my case 'not fit for purpose case' and take the UK MD to small claims court?

I know two dealers well, one of which has done over 30 subframe floor repairs, another 10. Has there been or can we put together a private list of all cars that have had a repair done, the chassis number and mileage.

I presume there is a legal reason why BMW chose 10 years and I'm sure their legal team have got this covered.

It's rather frustrating having to pay the bill for BMWs design flaw that should have been rectified when they first discovered the problem in 2003.

Sadly many other people are now going to find themselves in this position in the future.


How many miles has your car done? Any modifications?

[jibm]

Boot floor has cracked in two places, BMW dealer has put in the warranty request and it has been denied. Car over the 10 year goodwill period. Registered Sept 03.

Spoke to customer services and escalated the claim and explained my case 'not fit for purpose' 'US civil case' 'Problem since new that they knew about since 2003' etc etc but got no where.

I have the contact for BMW UKs legal team and the managing director.

What to do next? Any ideas?

1. Suck it up, pay to have it fixed and move on
2. Get solicitor to write a letter to the legal team stating my case 'not fit for purpose case' and take the UK MD to small claims court?

I know two dealers well, one of which has done over 30 subframe floor repairs, another 10. Has there been or can we put together a private list of all cars that have had a repair done, the chassis number and mileage.

I presume there is a legal reason why BMW chose 10 years and I'm sure their legal team have got this covered.

It's rather frustrating having to pay the bill for BMWs design flaw that should have been rectified when they first discovered the problem in 2003.

Sadly many other people are now going to find themselves in this position in the future.

just out of interest has your car been under warranty/extended warranty all of its life?

[leaded]

No extended warranty. No modifications and in good condition as per dealer report to BMW UK.

96K miles.

Has been fine for the last two year of heavy usage and regularly checked for cracks.

[_Nathan_]

When did you buy it and from whom?

[leaded]

Bought it privately 2-3 years ago.

Denied on the grounds that it was outside the 10 year goodwill period.

[patphnx]

Sorry to hear about this! Definitely a worry as mine is now beyond the 10 year mark as well. Has anyone actually had the foam/resin injection done?

[Neil M]

they just state that cars registered pre 04 have 6 year corrosion warranty(which the subframe repair falls under) cars after that have 12 year cover a bit shit I know even though all cars were built in 03.

That's the case when it comes to the legalities of 'Lawful' and 'Unlawful' on a Manufactureres liability. As all the cars were built at the same time between July and December 03, it seems ridiculous to me that they are using the registration date of the vehicle 03/04 as an arbitrary bench-mark to mitigate their losses.

However this does nothing to address the fundamental nature of the issue that being; 'Fit For Purpose' which was known to the manufacturer since 03. This could be deemed Professional Negligence, for continuing production in the same manner, despite knowledge of an inherent design fault.

I rest my case! :hahaha:

[Brandtner]

I know this doesn't help you but if I went to the 10th year anniversary I would had stern words with BMW reps about this.

[Alx]

I know this doesn't help you but if I went to the 10th year anniversary I would had stern words with BMW reps about this.
We tried to talk about this, but they were not "aware" of the problem...

I also contacted BMW Switzerland and they state that the problem does not exist. Yeah right...

[Chrisc]

Do you know how bad it is? Two cracks, but have they spread over 3-4". As catch it while you can, as seen one normal M3 which people like Redish just could not repair. So whole new carrier panel :banghead:

[Das Chin]

Bought it privately 2-3 years ago.

Denied on the grounds that it was outside the 10 year goodwill period.

does not surprise me in the slightest. you might have had a case if you had extended warranty but even then its shaky grounds.

I have a mate who is senior at BMW UK in Bracknell and BMW have all but washed their hands with the CSL and once its past the 10 year date then they have no responsibility for parts en masse.

lots of dealers have been taking the piss with claims for yours so HQ is fed up.

if the car was a few years old and maybe one year out of mfr warranty then you might have a case for good will and not fit for purpose. not after 10 years am afraid.

[shane@mbtech]

Lots of cars have shit designs that later down the line cause issues, bob hope of legal recourse IMO.

My car has no cracks, but I'm sorting it right now myself.

There are places that plate them for very reasonable money. Why not get them sorted?

[LeinsCSL]

Sorry to hear about this! Definitely a worry as mine is now beyond the 10 year mark as well. Has anyone actually had the foam/resin injection done?

That's why I went down the route of preventative maintenance myself last summer, as floor was fine coming up to the 10 year cut-off. MProve did mine with plates and epoxy resin, and there's a thread around here somewhere about it

Aha, here you go: http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10598&highlight=Mprove

Also I think Monkey at MLs might do this too

[deanobeano]

Its a pisser but I don't think BMW will budge.
They will argue that its been common knowledge and a four yearextension over the 6 year warranty was goodwill on their part.

Keep us informed on how you get treated.

[Yanto]

does not surprise me in the slightest. you might have had a case if you had extended warranty but even then its shaky grounds.

I have a mate who is senior at BMW UK in Bracknell and BMW have all but washed their hands with the CSL and once its past the 10 year date then they have no responsibility for parts en masse.

lots of dealers have been taking the piss with claims for yours so HQ is fed up.

if the car was a few years old and maybe one year out of mfr warranty then you might have a case for good will and not fit for purpose. not after 10 years am afraid.

Where does that leave warranty ?

[Das Chin]

extended warranties will be stopping all together I have heard.

even Porsche won't do warranty after 10 years. end of the line.

[alexk]

I have a very simple solution to the floor crack issue.

-------
1. Does the car have cracks ?
a. YES - go to step 2
b. NO - go to step 3

2. Fix the cracks and go to step 3

3. Life continues
-------

I still do not understand why people get completely viral about this.
Space shuttles blew up in front of the world :(
Airplanes costing millions disappear along with many unfortunate passengers and crew :(
It's just a car (special car, but still a car). No one is harmed by it and it's absolutely normal to have issues and problems.

[Monkey]

Lots of cars have shit designs that later down the line cause issues, bob hope of legal recourse IMO.

My car has no cracks, but I'm sorting it right now myself.

There are places that plate them for very reasonable money. Why not get them sorted?

Relative to the value of a CSL it is of course worth doing a reinforcement plate kit with the foam injection. Issue comes about with lower value standard M3's, when it's a little harder to justify £1600 against the value of the car.

Seen early non M car E46's that have ripped the n/s/r rear subframe mount completely out of the floor. Instant write off.

Shame there is such a fundamental issue with these superb cars.

[AlexGTT]

Where does that leave warranty ?

Not worth having Ian, IMO.

[shimmy]

BMW warranty covers what is in the print. Simple. The fact that they can't get new parts makes it less valuable but tbh, You Can't get the new parts either so at least it stil has a value as they get a part of some sort eventually.

Personally I would go legal on them if it were me and past 10 years. I would push quietly off forums and see if they give goodwill with no liability rather than risk liability to all potentially. Give them a rwson to give in "just this once" and they may take it. Try to blast it all over the forums and o have o chance

Alternatively borrow 04 plates and get it sorted :)

[patphnx]

That's why I went down the route of preventative maintenance myself last summer, as floor was fine coming up to the 10 year cut-off. MProve did mine with plates and epoxy resin, and there's a thread around here somewhere about it

Aha, here you go: http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10598&highlight=Mprove

Also I think Monkey at MLs might do this too


Ok, thanks for that! :beer:

Has anyone used the Redish Motorsport one?

http://www.redish-motorsport.com/E46M3FloorSubframeCrackRepairReinforcement.html

It looks good but I'd love to hear some reports from owners down the line.

[73CSL]

The warranty is different, because there is no goodwill attached, it's basically an insurance policy. Wether you can get the genuine parts as required by the warranty is a seperate issue :whistle:

[Mike R]

Plating the car does not fix the problem, instead the cracks form around the plates. Tom (from New Zealand) did a very detailed explanation of why this occurs. It is better to go down the BMW strengthening route with the foam injection (which is what BMW do when they replace the floor section). This attempts to prevent the sawing motion that causes the cracks, where the plating just moves the issue from the holes to the edge of the plating.

There are some horrific photos available if you do a search of how the plated cars then crack even worse (but you can see these haven't been foam filled as well, so maybe plating and foam filling is the best course of action).

[Neil M]

We tried to talk about this, but they were not "aware" of the problem...

I also contacted BMW Switzerland and they state that the problem does not exist. Yeah right...

Alex, next time your speaking to your Dealership, remind them of the BMW memo that was issued World-Wide dated: October 03, subsequently updated in December 03, and followed by a further update issued in April 04.
A total of 3 memos to ALL dealerships advising them of the problem! Ignorance is no excuse in Law! :whistle:

You will also note that the original memo predates the Manufacture of the CSL. The second was issued at the commencement of the CSL production, so despite being aware of the fault they chose to ignore it and continue production without addressing the underling problem. :banghead:

If this were any other industry, they would be hung out to dry! :smokin:
The amount of anticipated claims obviously didn't stack up against the costs of re-gigging the assembly line!

[leaded]

Thanks for all the help.

I have a quote to get the whole boot floor replaced, it is painful but not as bad as it could be as I'm in the trade and knowing the dealer well. I want the car back asap to use.

Once it is done I will get my solicitor to write to the BMW UK MD Tim Abbott to see if I can recover costs through the small claims court. Worth a shot, the internal memo dates are great, negligence and not fit for purpose, I just need as many cases as possible to go with it ideally chassis number but appreciate this sensitive information.

[leaded]

A couple of members have PM'd me with their chassis numbers, when and at what mileage the boot floors were replaced.

Any more would be much appreciated. All info held in the strictest of confidence.

[Alx]

Alex, next time your speaking to your Dealership, remind them of the BMW memo that was issued World-Wide dated: October 03, subsequently updated in December 03, and followed by a further update issued in April 04.
A total of 3 memos to ALL dealerships advising them of the problem! Ignorance is no excuse in Law! :whistle:

You will also note that the original memo predates the Manufacture of the CSL. The second was issued at the commencement of the CSL production, so despite being aware of the fault they chose to ignore it and continue production without addressing the underling problem. :banghead:

If this were any other industry, they would be hung out to dry! :smokin:
The amount of anticipated claims obviously didn't stack up against the costs of re-gigging the assembly line!

I agree with you Neil, but they state that it only applies to models until 2001 or 2002 according to the TIS.

[_Nathan_]

"Not fit for purpose" is part of the sale of goods act 1979 and not applicable to this transaction.

[stevenEK9]

what is the extent of the damage out of interest? any pics?

[shane@mbtech]

Plating the car does not fix the problem, instead the cracks form around the plates. Tom (from New Zealand) did a very detailed explanation of why this occurs. It is better to go down the BMW strengthening route with the foam injection (which is what BMW do when they replace the floor section). This attempts to prevent the sawing motion that causes the cracks, where the plating just moves the issue from the holes to the edge of the plating.

There are some horrific photos available if you do a search of how the plated cars then crack even worse (but you can see these haven't been foam filled as well, so maybe plating and foam filling is the best course of action).

This is exactly what I'm doing mike. Plate and foam

[rstoughy]

This is exactly what I'm doing mike. Plate and foam

You tying in the cage as well Shane?

[Monkey]

Ok, thanks for that! :beer:

Has anyone used the Redish Motorsport one?

http://www.redish-motorsport.com/E46M3FloorSubframeCrackRepairReinforcement.html

It looks good but I'd love to hear some reports from owners down the line.

We use the Reddish motorsport kit at the moment. Its decent, thick guage steel, lazer cut and very uniform. The first one I did, I used the Turner Motorsport kit, and it short it wasn't a patch on the Reddish kit.

We've done several cars now, the last 3 we have bought the foam injection kit from BMW. This is why there is now an increase in the cost of the repair, as the 2 different tubes of foam are bloody expensive!

As we're starting to do more and more we'll get our own kit made up I'm sure. I think it's too early to tell if there are issues with the plating with the foam injection. It'll be some time before we get any feedback from those.

[shane@mbtech]

You tying in the cage as well Shane?

Yes getting cage welded through floor too.

[patphnx]

We use the Reddish motorsport kit at the moment. Its decent, thick guage steel, lazer cut and very uniform. The first one I did, I used the Turner Motorsport kit, and it short it wasn't a patch on the Reddish kit.

We've done several cars now, the last 3 we have bought the foam injection kit from BMW. This is why there is now an increase in the cost of the repair, as the 2 different tubes of foam are bloody expensive!

As we're starting to do more and more we'll get our own kit made up I'm sure. I think it's too early to tell if there are issues with the plating with the foam injection. It'll be some time before we get any feedback from those.

Thanks for this. Any chance you could post (or PM me if you prefer) a total cost for the whole procedure?

[pinkpanther008]

The only issue i had with the foam injection after BMW subframe repair was the intoxicating smell and the fumes. They seemed to also react with the Alcantara covering on my wheel as the adhesive seems to have come thru and leaves the wheel feeling a touch tacky?? Strange i know! Dont know if anybody else had experience of this?

[alexk]

Thats extremely strange.
Did the car not sit for 24+ hours at the dealer and with the boot opened ?

It should even sit in the lift so as there is no stress from the suspension

[J2LTB]

Pm'ed you my repair details

[rs4steve]

Hi there,
I bought my car December 14th 2013, I took mine for an inspection the very last day of its 10 year warranty 30th December 2013, it was found a 30mm long crack, it was refused twice by Bmw uk on goodwill, I then wrote a letter to Bmw Munich where it was granted and that they would cover 100% parts and labour, I have just picked the car up this week,
I think that I am exceptionally lucky to have had this sorted!

[shimmy]

Hi there,
I bought my car December 14th 2013, I took mine for an inspection the very last day of its 10 year warranty 30th December 2013, it was found a 30mm long crack, it was refused twice by Bmw uk on goodwill, I then wrote a letter to Bmw Munich where it was granted and that they would cover 100% parts and labour, I have just picked the car up this week,
I think that I am exceptionally lucky to have had this sorted!

Bloody result, well done.

[leaded]

Hi there,
I bought my car December 14th 2013, I took mine for an inspection the very last day of its 10 year warranty 30th December 2013, it was found a 30mm long crack, it was refused twice by Bmw uk on goodwill, I then wrote a letter to Bmw Munich where it was granted and that they would cover 100% parts and labour, I have just picked the car up this week,
I think that I am exceptionally lucky to have had this sorted!

Nice work, who did you address it too? Will do both, one to BMW UK and one to Munich.

[pinkpanther008]

Thats extremely strange.
Did the car not sit for 24+ hours at the dealer and with the boot opened ?

It should even sit in the lift so as there is no stress from the suspension

Yep, i have even left the boot/doors open for a few days to exhasut fumes but it still is intoxicating....epoxy is always like this when ive used it before. Nasty stuff indeed! My S'wheel needs a wheel re-trim so maybe its about time i got this done!

PP

[Neil M]

I agree with you Neil, but they state that it only applies to models until 2001 or 2002 according to the TIS.

The memo is headed BMW TIS SI Fractures on rear axle support E46

It states "Manufacturing period: Start of series production until 2002" which is probable what they are referring to.
However bearing in mind when the memos were originally circulated in 2003, they are hardly likely to to state to the end of E46 production.
The problem didn't go away in 2002, it continued along with E46 production to the end.

[Fasteddie]

Just had mine inspected by the local BMW dealer, 7 days before its 10th birthday, all clear. I take it if the problem was there it would be fairly evident? ie, no chance of them missing something??

[mattCSLnut]

Just had mine inspected by the local BMW dealer, 7 days before its 10th birthday, all clear. I take it if the problem was there it would be fairly evident? ie, no chance of them missing something??

If I were U I'd get a second opinion from Gareth @ Elms :thumbs: Mine also looked OK until Gareth had a proper close up look during an Inspection 1 and found a small crack just creeping out from under one of the rear sub frame mounts. If he gives you all clear then you can rest assure it is, because not all main dealers know where to look for this properly. Only then get it booked in to get the structural foam injected for extra piece of mind :thumbs:

[Bounce]

Like Matt said.;)

[Neil M]

As Matt said, it all depends on who's doing the looking, it's always best to get a second opinion in any event! :whistle:

[MCSL]

If I were U I'd get a second opinion from Gareth @ Elms :thumbs: Mine also looked OK until Gareth had a proper close up look during an Inspection 1 and found a small crack just creeping out from under one of the rear sub frame mounts. If he gives you all clear then you can rest assure it is, because not all main dealers know where to look for this properly. Only then get it booked in to get the structural foam injected for extra piece of mind :thumbs:

+1000000

Gareth can spot a small crack at 20 yards. I couldn't even hardly see it myself. He had to point it out to me with his tool - i thought he was winding me up, but he was right. I had a little crack. Now fixed and warrantied :)

[Mike R]

+1000000

Gareth can spot a small crack at 20 yards. I couldn't even hardly see it myself. He had to point it out to me with his tool - i thought he was winding me up, but he was right. I had a little crack. Now fixed and warrantied :)

I had no idea you were female :hahaha:. Was Gareth's tool a tight fit in your small crack :blalalala: ?

[MCSL]

I had no idea you were female :hahaha:. Was Gareth's tool a tight fit in your small crack :blalalala: ?

How very rude! He's a respectable gent i'll have you know. I left satisfied :thumbs:

[The JC]

So how much does this cost to sort out?