FAO: CSL owners with cups

[Gibbo]

Hi there

A question guys, I used to own a CSL but really can't remember the answer to my question.

Building a track focused M3, current weight is around 1330kg with a weight distribution of around 54/46 so no longer 50/50. Power is 367BHP!
KW Clubsports and car is corner weighted.

I am on 265/18/35 cups all round and it's very wheelspin happy.

DRY Traction
1st gear - can't go full throttle at any point, wheelspin, 1/2 throttle at most.
2nd gear - Only full throttle with heat in tyres, otherwise slight wheel spin.
3rd - no problems!

WET Traction
1st gear - LOL
2nd gear - Tyres full temperature, ease it in and maybe, but typically lots of wheelspin.
3rd gear - typically OK.


So those with CSL's on cups or track focused M3's how is your traction? Can any of you floor it in second in the wet without issues?

Just wondering if I have a lack of rear traction and if so if there are any mods I can do for rear traction apart from putting bags of sand in the boot or bodies lol. :D

[shimmy]

You have a problem, I don't get any real wheel spin in a straight line with same set up.

Age of cups?
How many heat cycles?
geo setting (camber)?
Tyre pressures?
Ride height?
Springs?


Have feeling maybe your car is pitched too much to the front I.e not lower at back than front.

[Gibbo]

You have a problem, I don't get any real wheel spin in a straight line with same set up.

Age of cups?
How many heat cycles?
geo setting (camber)?
Tyre pressures?
Ride height?
Springs?


Have feeling maybe your car is pitched too much to the front I.e not lower at back than front.

Hi mate

Cups are brand new, done 200 miles, no better, done a track day no better. Federal RSR's fitted previously were even worse.

Geo settings are:-
http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o504/Gibbo205/allignment.jpg


Pressures: 31 cold all round

Ride height: Front 580mm measured from bottom of wheel lip / rear 573mm measured from bottom of wheel lip.

Picture of car ride height:-
http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o504/Gibbo205/bmw1.jpg


Springs: stock KW Clubsport springs, tried both ring dry and ring wet settings on dampers.


A picture of the car in action:-
[img]http://i1145.photobucket.com/albums/o504/Gibbo205/Donny1.jpg~original[/





I bring it up as I drove a friends 2005 M3 CS earlier, standard on 19's with Michelin PSS and it had no issues with full throttle in 2nd in the wet. His car obviously has more weight in rear, better wet tyres and is a much newer car, but had no slip at all. Mine just seems to spin up too easily in the wet for my liking.

[shimmy]

Swap your friends rims/tyres with ours and see what happens.

[mattCSLnut]

Hi mate

Cups are brand new, done 200 miles, no better, done a track day no better. Federal RSR's fitted previously were even worse.

Pressures: 31 cold all round

Ride height: Front 580mm measured from bottom of wheel lip / rear 573mm measured from bottom of wheel lip.

I bring it up as I drove a friends 2005 M3 CS earlier, standard on 19's with Michelin PSS and it had no issues with full throttle in 2nd in the wet. His car obviously has more weight in rear, better wet tyres and is a much newer car, but had no slip at all. Mine just seems to spin up too easily in the wet for my liking.

Your cold pressures are too high for Track Work, hence why U suffer from excessive wheel spin ... they should be around 26 psi cold.

[Gibbo]

Swap your friends rims/tyres with ours and see what happens.

Would you say my current ride height and geo are ok then mate?

[Gibbo]

Your cold pressures are too high for Track Work, hence why U suffer from excessive wheel spin ... they should be around 26 psi cold.

Yes on track I set them too 26 cold and try to keep them around 31 hot, on track I get zero slip in 2nd in the dry, only on the road.

Wet I get a lot of spin in 2nd on road, not tried track wet yet.


Are than any suspension mods to aid rear traction or is adding weight my friend?

[shimmy]

Yes on track I set them too 26 cold and try to keep them around 31 hot, on track I get zero slip in 2nd in the dry, only on the road.

Wet I get a lot of spin in 2nd on road, not tried track wet yet.


Are than any suspension mods to aid rear traction or is adding weight my friend?

To be fair, the roads for the last 3 months have been slippery as fook:thumbs:

[mattCSLnut]

Yes on track I set them too 26 cold and try to keep them around 31 hot, on track I get zero slip in 2nd in the dry, only on the road.

Wet I get a lot of spin in 2nd on road, not tried track wet yet.


Are than any suspension mods to aid rear traction or is adding weight my friend?
Public roads have less grip (and more $hit on them) then TD surfaces so modulate your throttle with more finesse and greater care.
Furthermore, at this time of the year with ambient temps hovering below 7 Deg. Celsius CUPs have very low, if no grip at all (as they are designed not to)
You want good tyre grip this time of the year get Winter tyres :-D

[northernjim]

Yes on track I set them too 26 cold and try to keep them around 31 hot, on track I get zero slip in 2nd in the dry, only on the road.

Wet I get a lot of spin in 2nd on road, not tried track wet yet.


Are than any suspension mods to aid rear traction or is adding weight my friend?




so you have NEW cups, in the cold and wet, and you are surprised that you are spinning your wwheels:whistle:



Have you tried setting the kw to full soft at the back.


and why is your weight distribution so wrong?

[Gibbo]

so you have NEW cups, in the cold and wet, and you are surprised that you are spinning your wwheels:whistle:



Have you tried setting the kw to full soft at the back.


and why is your weight distribution so wrong?

I realise that of course and when they have heat in they are better, my question was are other CSL / M3 owners experience similar in current weather?

Yes tried KW on full soft.

Weight is less at rear as it's a stock M3 stripped and well more weight has come out the rear than front.

[Das Chin]

agreed with matt totally. Until it warms up and regularly over 7 degrees then cups are always going to be like this unless you carry tyre warmers with you!!

i put a hair dryer to one of my rear cups and you can feel it go from stone cold rock hard to being more malable with heat.

you are better off with a PSS or even softer tyre in this weather like a winter.

[billyboysm3]

As mentioned below cups this time of year on a greasy road or track are crap.

Our vert on track with road Tyres has been spinning up the last few track days but get a dry day, this time of year and either drive to the track sensibly or do a few warm up laps and then they will be ready to go and you will not get any wheel spin.

If the track is damp and you can get heat into them they are better than a road tyre.
But the temperature isn't right outside at the moment.

If it was me, I found change front camber to -3.2 and rear to -2 for even wear and rotate rims.

Also with new cups it's beat to hear cycle them, ie drive them for a good hour or so to build the heat up and then cool them down over night. This stops them going hard like the cheap eBay ones for sale.

What track day are you doing next?

[73CSL]

was out in my car on the weekend, temps around 7 deg, roads damp looking .... tyres constantly lighting up on full throttle 4K revs + in 2nd ( M-button on) & I'm running road friendly vredesteins. Had fun overtaking one car as I had to feather the throttle to get past

[Gibbo]

Guys

Thanks for the responses.

I wish I could get PSS, best tyre I've ever used, got them on the 911 and in these cold wet conditions the grip levels are insane and my mates M3 CS is on PSS, vastly impressive tyre and not that much slower than cups on track either.

But can't get them in 265/35/18 unfortunately, I even rang Michelin as they are available stateside. The only good news they gave me is that cup 2 will be released next year in the size I want and it has the improved PSS technology for tyre life and improve wet handling. :)

Anyway it does seem my car is fine if you guys can spin the wheels up too in current damp/cold conditions, I was at Donnington this weekend and even though my brake fluid was boiled I still managed a 1:23 which I was quite happy with.

I shall be at Donnington again March 16th hopefully, but probably just watching and jumping in with a few of the cutters guys to experience the power of AP's as my cars braking system is currently:-

PF 325mm two-piece disc all round.
PF08 front pads, stock rear pads
RBF600 fluid.

When the fluid is not boiled its not bad, but lacks modulation and confidence so a couple of the guys on cutters have offered to take me around Donny to demonstrate their AP's, I think after that things are going to get expensive, LOL. :D

[glendog74]

Cup 2 are already appearing for sale on various websites.

If you plan on doing regular track days then you will appreciate a BBK like APs or Alcons very much so!

I have APs and have been very happy with them over 5 years of use :-D