Techo wizzers please help

[Funkster]

Hi Guys, Not been around for a while but cecil still tucked up in the warm and waiting for this years adventures.

I'm really after some help with my E36 S54 racer and was hoping that someone out there has the knowledge.

I need to De vanos the car prior to going down the standalone ecu route that I've chosen but the issue is with timing the cams.......I can source the vanos elimination kit in the uk but the cam timing is my worry.

I've been searching and searching about timing the cams for optimal without the vanos but I am so struggling on finding any information........about 20 hrs on google and im truly done.

I know I'll have to degree disc the crank etc and then probably get the dial gauge out but I'm in need of any info from anyone who may of done it before. I spotted a post from Mr gorilla on another forum from a while ago and I'm wondering if you ever found out the info.

Any help would be muchly muchly appreciated as race season starts in eight weeks and I'm starting to struggle with the to do list.

Thanks, Matty.

[O'Neill]

Give Russ a call, he has deleated Vanos on his race car.

http://www.dmworx.co.uk/mobile

[shimmy]

Watta bout Nathan on here' he can delete anything :thumbs:

[adem.csl]

The way we used to do it on my old fiesta turbo we dial gauged pistons to top dead then cam to its too dead point then you really need a rolling road where you can power run it then adjust the cams via the sprockets to advance or retard as to the kind of torque band you want and where you want the band.in guessing mid range/low then you can work out by the dyno graphs where the best set up is.with a stand alone ecu i take it will need mapping so gotta take all that into consideration same time.adjusting air/fuel ratios against timing.used to watch my old boss do it its involved to say the least!!

[Bounce]

The way we used to do it on my old fiesta turbo we dial gauged pistons to top dead then cam to its too dead point then you really need a rolling road where you can power run it then adjust the cams via the sprockets to advance or retard as to the kind of torque band you want and where you want the band.in guessing mid range/low then you can work out by the dyno graphs where the best set up is.with a stand alone ecu i take it will need mapping so gotta take all that into consideration same time.adjusting air/fuel ratios against timing.used to watch my old boss do it its involved to say the least!!This is the way I usually do it too.:whistle::-D

[Funkster]

Thanks guys, I'll try and get hold of Russ in the morning......the more I read the more complicated it seems.....

It looks like it may only be possible with some of the special BMW tools :banghead:

Quite a few of them on here I know :-D:-D:thumbs::-D:-D

I'll keep on it !!

Thanks again !!

[adem.csl]

Thanks guys, I'll try and get hold of Russ in the morning......the more I read the more complicated it seems.....

It looks like it may only be possible with some of the special BMW tools :banghead:

Quite a few of them on here I know :-D:-D:thumbs::-D:-D

I'll keep on it !!

Thanks again !!

You only need bmw specialist tools if your timing it to standard spec but if your doin your own spec then just dial gauge it all because it will need moving as to what torque band you want.i can lend you the tools if you need them.

[_Nathan_]

I wouldn't de-vanos with an h pattern personally. Sequential I wouldn't either but it is more arguable there.

Strongest s54 I know is still swinging the cams at high rpm looking at the map, there is a lot to be gained.

Out of interest what ECU have you gone for and what is the engine spec?

[Funkster]

Whoah sorry guys.......been so busy pulling the engine out Iv'e not been on here.

Nathan, I bought the car from a very good friend of mine who had the engine built by geoffe steele but to a fairly standard spec..... fully balanced with lightweight flywheel, clutch and pulleys etc.....arp bottom end bolts crank grind and new shells, new rings on standard pistons, all new seals/gaskets, motorsport rockers with standard cams, and various other stuff refreshed like valves etc. it does look like they have tinkered with the inlet side a little..... though.

The main reasons for wanting to do away with the Vanos is Iv'e currently got an exhaust vanos code which could be a number of things and will obviously cost to put right and the basic ECU I'm going with won't control the vanos........After speaking to a couple of mototrsport companies I think for me it will be easier and hopefully less hassle for the future if I just bin it. The race engine's that steele and jc mototrsport ect build have the vanos taken off. I understand there is gains to be made if working correctly but If I carry on doing all work to the car I would just prefer it as simple as possible. The series I run in is 1hr races and Ive got to actually turn the power down a little to get into the top class so the Emerald Ecu I'm going with although fairly basic will have 3 maps installed so I can plug in before the race and set for the race but still choose full power for a different series or a trackday if I wish. The other reasons for choosing emerald is that they are only 40 mins away from me and our race series power testing company work with emeralds and they will be adjusting my 2nd map for the series so it makes sense. I think the way I'm going to go is take the engine back to Geoff steele for the devanos and timing and then I'll carry on from there to build the engine loom and fit the ecu.

I'm not sure yet where to have the revs set.... as I don't want to be revving the shite out of it all the time so will discuss this with Steeles on there recommendation and options for timing with the torque etc but any help or advice is always appreciated.

Thanks again guys..... Matty.

[shimmy]

Matty

Ive just found out that the best way to cure this fault is to get rid of the bad luck you have. Expel it.............and the best way of getting rid of bad luck is to sell any other E36 you have as it is really really bad luck to own two

:thumbs:

[Funkster]

9898

[Funkster]

Sorry shim........too much love for the old 28

[shimmy]

Sorry shim........too much love for the old 28

Is that wing for TD trophy?

[Funkster]

Yeah, tdt or tt. Just on the limit of width... has to keep with standard profile of car. Dies suit it.......just picked up a carbon one for the new one.

[_Nathan_]

For a power to weight series drive by wire is a must IMO, ideally augmented by vanos but have had good results with drive by wire and no vanos, to the point where the rules were changed :D

[Funkster]

Thanks nathan.... the e36 has had the fly by wire fitted so this will be retained. Ive just been pulling around the engine and im wondering now whether I can also get rid of the idle control valve. The emerald states that it fbw control is currently in development but they informed me if I take the pedal in they can set it up correctly.

[_Nathan_]

If you have DBW the rev it as far as it'll go, map DBW to cap power and jobs a goodun.

Motec can do idle control via DBW but no idea on emerald.

If the ECU can hold 3 maps shouldn't be a need to plug in either, just stick rotary switch on steering wheel, means you can have a wet map with a different throttle position translation table and switch to it on the fly if it rains.

[Funkster]

Nathan..... The emerald will operate the idle control valve but im thinking its somthing else I could do without on the car if poss...... Emerald also do a 3 position switch but its not allowed in our series in case of cheating unfortunately but I love the idea if a wet setting. The difference between driving with the s54 compared to the old 328 with massive fkywheel is chalk and cheese..... in the wet the 328 is amazingly docile and no fancy heel n toe is needed which has helped us win about 75 percent of our rainy races but this s54 is so snappy and drops the revs that quickly it evens gets tiny snappy lockups when downshifting in the dry. What would you recommend setting the soft and hard cut too...want to use all the power but also want longevity. Just found a shot harmonic balancer tonight which seems to be common with all the lightweight stuff fitted.

[_Nathan_]

When I say Motec will do idle control with DBW I mean it will use the throttles to achieve target idle, no need for the idle control valve.

Depends on engine spec, varies so much, have some customers with engines good for over 9000rpm.