Oil cooler diverter valve

[adem.csl]

http://ca-int.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0yNjI2.html
Ca technologies are doin a good deal on these diverter valves they are just over 50% at 55 quid a steal so ive got one for mine.
What they do is remove the thermostatic valve in the oil filter housing allowing the oil to circulate round the cooler from a cooler temperature keeping down oil temps on track.if you want a valve just mail Ca mentioning the register and he will hook you up
Ive got one for mine and takes minutes to fit easy job

[Mike R]

http://ca-int.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0yNjI2.html
Ca automotives are doin a good deal on these diverter valves they are just over 50% at 55 quid a steal so ive got one for mine.
What they do is remove the thermostatic valve in the oil filter housing allowing the oil to circulate round the cooler at a cooler temperature keeping down oil temps on track.if you want a valve just mail Ca mentioning the register and he will hook you up
Ive got one for mine and takes minutes to fit easy job

What did I say to you the other day LOL?

Order me one and you can fit it when you do the breather :blalalala:!

Hopefully they haven't dispatched yours yet :clown:!

[CraigMillwardCroft]

http://ca-int.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0yNjI2.html
Ca automotives are doin a good deal on these diverter valves they are just over 50% at 55 quid a steal so ive got one for mine.
What they do is remove the thermostatic valve in the oil filter housing allowing the oil to circulate round the cooler at a cooler temperature keeping down oil temps on track.if you want a valve just mail Ca mentioning the register and he will hook you up
Ive got one for mine and takes minutes to fit easy job

Sounds interesting :thumbs:

[adem.csl]

Keep em peeled as im gonna do a fitting thread lol
Not that its a Sunday afternoon job but at least you guys can see them being fitted

[adem.csl]

What did I say to you the other day LOL?

Order me one and you can fit it when you do the breather :blalalala:!

Hopefully they haven't dispatched yours yet :clown:!

Dude 55£ is a deal for everyone mate i can get you one out tomorrow don't sweat lol mike you can order it yourself if you want.there is no group buy discount he has dropped near half way for us as is
Let me know and i will get you one

[Mike R]

Dude 55£ is a deal for everyone mate i can get you one out tomorrow don't sweat lol mike you can order it yourself if you want.there is no group buy discount he has dropped near half way for us as is
Let me know and i will get you one

Seeing as you'll be fitting it, you might as well just double up your order :supz:.

[shane@mbtech]

Order me one Adem . @ £50 it's worth a punt

For you guys worrying about track temps, have you fitted a Motorsport/tropical water stat?

[shimmy]

Order me one Adem . @ £50 it's worth a punt

For you guys worrying about track temps, have you fitted a Motorsport/tropical water stat?

Lawsy

The high track temps won't be cured with ANY of these ideas guaranteed. Bigger oil cooler won't solve it either.

The idea of better airflow migh work and I think I might try to bonnet lift idea before I do the aux fan delete/electric fan install.

But will obviously help to reduce temps up to the heat soak point.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote- ''...What they do is remove the thermostatic valve in the oil filter housing allowing the oil to circulate round the cooler at a cooler temperature''

Not following your logic here at all.

Oil temp is oil temp, so when the oil reaches
95 degrees the oil stat opens, when the oil
is cooler than 95 degrees it closes.

If you remove your Oil stat then it takes longer
for the engine oil to warm up from cold, and most engine
damage occurs with cold oil not hot.

On track your oil is up to temp, or higher, so the
Oil Stat is always open so I am not
sure how the Oil stat closes for Track use if higher
oil temp is the problem.

Point being is that if your engine oil temp
is lower than 95 degrees and the Oil stat is
closed then you can not have a high oil temp
issue.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike R]

Hi,

Quote- ''...What they do is remove the thermostatic valve in the oil filter housing allowing the oil to circulate round the cooler at a cooler temperature''

Not following your logic here at all.

Oil temp is oil temp, so when the oil reaches
95 degrees the oil stat opens, when the oil
is cooler than 95 degrees it closes.

If you remove your Oil stat then it takes longer
for the engine oil to warm up from cold, and most engine
damage occurs with cold oil not hot.

On track your oil is up to temp, or higher, so the
Oil Stat is always open so I am not
sure how the Oil stat closes for Track use if higher
oil temp is the problem.

Point being is that if your engine oil temp
is lower than 95 degrees and the Oil stat is
closed then you can not have a high oil temp
issue.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Hi Danny,
The way it works on the S54 engine is that it doesn't release all the oil through the cooler when it gets hot, so this is why you get excessive oil temps on track, as the oil cooler isn't being fully utilised. The diverter valve ensures that all the oil is passed through the cooler, which should mean it maintains the temps at a more acceptable level.

Obviously as mentioned, it takes longer for the oil to warm up, but providing you monitor the temps and don't go yea-ha before they're up to normal operating temperature, I can't really see the problem.

Given the cost an ease of reversal, I think it has got to be worth a punt as the oil pressures drop really low (as you know) when the oil temps get really hot, which means the VANOS is put under strain as well. I'd rather wait longer for oil temps to reach their optimum than worry about excessive temps on track.

[The Gorilla]

Hi.

Quote - '' The way it works on the S54 engine is that it doesn't release all the oil through the cooler when it gets hot, so this is why you get excessive oil temps on track, as the oil cooler isn't being fully utilised.

I am not sure I folllow any of this any more.

The Oil stat in the S54 Oil filtre housing
is controlled via a spring return stat that when closed
pushes the oil across the to the other side
where the Oil cooler return is, which in turn feeds
the distribution block for the oil galleys.

When the stat is open the oil flows into the
oil cooler and back to the distribution block.

When the Oil Stat opens oil pressure does not
alter or drop theerfore the flow path with the
Stat open will take the majority of flow and volume
of oil as opposed the oil flow path when the
stat is shut.

Oil flow is similar to water flow in that it will
always flow in the direction of the least line
of rtesistance, which with the stat open is
straigh on, not acreoss the 'bridge' as when
the stat is closed.

[Oil pressure is measured via resistance, flow and
oil viscosity]

Hence my point Oil temp is oil temp, so in order
to achieve a greater oil flow you require a larger
id bore and or a greater pressure, otherwise the
volume of oil going thru the Cooler with the stat
open is pretty much the same as the amount of oil
going diretly to the distribution block with the
stat closed.

You also mention Vanos which is the second from last port of
call on the oil feed supply chain.

If you have the Oil stat removed and in effect
a blanking sleeve fitted, on start up not only
is the oil much cooler for a longer period,
not particuliar good, but your having to
pressure up the oil cooler and oil cooler lines before
oil is fed up to the Vanos, and then Cams which is not the
case with the Oil Stat fitted.

You want the oil to the Vanos and Cams as quick
as possible on start up, not start introdcuing
delays.

There is no free lunch, and if you think that
50 or 60.00 pounds is going to drop oil temps
on a S54 at being ragged on Track then fit them
in, I'ii just stick with my oil to water heat
exchanger which works fine with the Oil stst
still in place.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[adem.csl]

Hi,the description i wrote was a basic 'this is what it does'i included the link to CA which goes into detail of what the valve does.
I see your point Gorilla but i also see mikes too!
It does increase the amount of oil flow through the cooler and this diverter is prob not a good idea on a road day to day driving car!however!!
If the oil temp raises to 125 degrees+ on track before the stat opens the surely if there is no stat present the oil cant reach that temp in the first place???it will stay at 95 degrees.track use!!m going to try one and record the info and let you know how it stands!


They have put time and money into research so im sure it must work(for some engines)!!

[shane@mbtech]

Hi,

Quote- ''...What they do is remove the thermostatic valve in the oil filter housing allowing the oil to circulate round the cooler at a cooler temperature''

Not following your logic here at all.

Oil temp is oil temp, so when the oil reaches
95 degrees the oil stat opens, when the oil
is cooler than 95 degrees it closes.

If you remove your Oil stat then it takes longer
for the engine oil to warm up from cold, and most engine
damage occurs with cold oil not hot.

On track your oil is up to temp, or higher, so the
Oil Stat is always open so I am not
sure how the Oil stat closes for Track use if higher
oil temp is the problem.

Point being is that if your engine oil temp
is lower than 95 degrees and the Oil stat is
closed then you can not have a high oil temp
issue.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


This contradicts your reasoning behind the motorsport water stat though?

[Mike R]

This contradicts your reasoning behind the motorsport water stat though?

That was exactly what I was going to say, but for a different reason LOL.

If you're using the same feed as the OE item for your water cooled Mocal item, which as stated limits the amount of oil it allows to flow past it, then surely your cooling method will be no better than the OE air to air item, as the issue isn't actually airflow through the oil cooler, but the amount of oil it actually allows to pass through the oil cooler?

I don't understand how your cooling method is an improvement?

[The Gorilla]

Hi Lawsy,

Not sure how.

55 degree water stat is so that the
water path / cycle opens and stays open and so the thermosat [std one]
is unable to fluctutate, once open it stays open to
ensure that no hot spots in the cross flow of the
water jacket of the head might or could occur.
[split seals/HG failure/ cracked head and so on]
and that water temp is more even due to the fact
that the lower rated water stat is more constant
for all round flow and temp.

With the Oil temps the removal of the Oil stat
is almost the opposite where on long straights
the oil temp as its always passing thru the oil
cooler and is ambinet air temp cooled could
drop down to temps where the oil is at it
weakest in protecting internal engine components.

Back on the twisties and its rising again, and so on.

Thus you create surges in oil temps which
is not good as their is no stat to close when
temps start falling below 90 deg ti try and
hold the temps more even.

F430 458 New M5 the list goes on all are running
oil to water heat exchangers, many no longer
run a std air cooled Oil Cooler, as they aim to try and
keep oil and water temps as constant and even as
possible.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote - '' If you're using the same feed as the OE item for your water cooled Mocal item, which as stated limits the amount of oil it allows to flow past it, then surely your cooling method will be no better than the OE air to air item, as the issue isn't actually airflow through the oil cooler, but the amount of oil it actually allows to pass through the oil cooler?

Is this some form of new English being used as a trial basis
or is this for real ?

You should stop making those assumptions MikeR
as I thought we had cleared that up many moons ago.

Do you know how a laminova Oil to water heat exchanger
works as reading the above statement it does not
appear so, no more than you know how my system is
fitted and works ?

So you do not have to make any further assumptions
Mike here is a link to a picture.

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2817&page=4

Now before the Oil stat is even open my Oil to water Heat
exchanger is working away as its feed via the top of the oil filter and
goes back to the Oil fitlre block on the return side
where the std oil cooler returns to.

I run JIc 10 lines for flow and return to the Laminova not Mocal
heat exchanger.

This is always full of oil so on start up there is
no pressuring required and as the engine has a
55 deg water stat fitted the water rad operates quicker and
thus assists in heating up the engine oil quicker as the
water from the rad return is what cools the Laminova
as it passes thru it..

So far so good.

Then on Track when my oil hits 95 deg Guess what the Oil
stat opens ,you know the thing that you keep wanting to remove,
and I now have a Oil to Water heat exchanger working
to try and keep temps even, and as the oil temp
has moved up above 95 deg my oil stat opens, yes that
thing you want to bin, and the std Air to Oil cooler then
also comes into play at the same time'' as its also installed on JIc 10
lines and fitted via a 'Y' with non return valve into the
=oil return feed, and guess what that little bit
of free ambient air just nudges the temps back down
below 95, the oil stat shuts, but only if you still have one,
and the oil and water temps then behave themselves again
all being kept as constant as possible by the oil to water heat exchanger
until the next little rise in oil temp, mostly on the parts
where I get all carried away trying to be Hans Stuck.

As I said there is no free lunch.

So please no more Assumptions or Trial English.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike R]

Hi Danny,
Of course I know how one works, I had one on my Sierra over 15 years ago LOL,

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/MikeR/Sierra%20Photos/Mikes500engine06_zps61676e74.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MikeR/media/Sierra%20Photos/Mikes500engine06_zps61676e74.jpg.html)

But as you hadn't provided any explanation or information to the contrary, it was my belief that you had substituted the OE air to air item with the Laminova item, which just didn't make sense (for the reasons I gave above).

Now I can see that you have added the Laminova to supplement the OE air to air item, that does make a little more sense. However, the proof is in the pudding, as reading between the lines, this is how you are HOPING it will work, as it seems you haven't proved that yet ;).

I say that, as the one on my Sierra, didn't perform as well as I had hoped and I was still seeing 125°C oil temps on track in 30°C ambients.....

Anyway, surely the easy solution for the Oil cooler bypass valve is to just run a thermostat before the cooler, so that it doesn't allow the oil into this until it has reached the required temperature - job jobbed....

[karbonkid]

I've run a Motorsport stat for a while now. Recommend for a track car only.

Personally I would probably be more concerned about power steering temps and fit an additional cooler to help keep temps down there.

[alexk]

Hi Danny,
The way it works on the S54 engine is that it doesn't release all the oil through the cooler when it gets hot, so this is why you get excessive oil temps on track, as the oil cooler isn't being fully utilised.

Did they do an oil flow measurement with and without the thermostat ?
I am just curious why they are saying the thermostat is restricting the flow.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote- '' However, the proof is in the pudding, as reading between the lines, this is how you are HOPING it will work, as it seems you haven't proved that yet.

See there you go again with those Assumptions.

The Picture in the Link was circa 2009 and
its now 2014, but whatever MikeR.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike R]

Hi,

Quote- '' However, the proof is in the pudding, as reading between the lines, this is how you are HOPING it will work, as it seems you haven't proved that yet.

See there you go again with those Assumptions.

The Picture in the Link was circa 2009 and
its now 2014, but whatever MikeR.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I like to follow your lead with the assumptions as I know how much you like them ;).

I've never seen you mention doing any track days with the car and I would have thought such a recognisable car would get photographed a lot.

So when are you next out in it :)?

[shimmy]

My take on this is everybody is pissing in the wind and NOBODY has solved the underlying overheating issue with the S54

:whistle:

[Mike R]

Did they do an oil flow measurement with and without the thermostat ?
I am just curious why they are saying the thermostat is restricting the flow.

Yes, I have the figures on my computer at work, from memory they say that only a maximum of 40% of the oil is diverted through the oil cooler when it gets up to sufficient temp to open the diverter fully.

[Mike R]

My take on this is everybody is pissing in the wind and NOBODY has solved the underlying overheating issue with the S54

:whistle:

You would say that, but I don't see you trying anything beyond the norm :blalalala:.

[shimmy]

You would say that, but I don't see you trying anything beyond the norm :blalalala:.

I've learnt that me trying stuff Isnt really the best way to do things.......it's not like mucking round with an old Ford, I love my car.:thumbs: (and I have tried a few things actually)

Tbh I have now found the solution(s) and will try them next 24oC plus day.

[shane@mbtech]

My take on this is everybody is pissing in the wind and NOBODY has solved the underlying overheating issue with the S54

:whistle:

My car never suffered any overheating, ever. Non AC car with no AC fans restricting cooling flow.

[shimmy]

My car never suffered any overheating, ever. Non AC car with no AC fans restricting cooling flow.

My conclusion also, airflow

Restricted through a dense set of 2 fans and two rads and a load of plastic.fans being the culprit probably as they are both off on track.

[adem.csl]

My car has never suffered overheating either with a/c installed!!
My oil temps went to 150 deg but soon dropped on a cool down lap back down to 125deg..last July at brands but i did get stuck behind some cars at stages!!
At donnington in August i used some crap cup + then changed to csl cups and found more grip in corners as did billy when he drove it so we pushed it hard to a 1.36 lap and it never rose past 125 deg

[shimmy]

My car has never suffered overheating either with a/c installed!!
My oil temps went to 150 deg but soon dropped on a cool down lap back down to 125deg..last July at brands but i did get stuck behind some cars at stages!!
At donnington in August i used some crap cup + then changed to csl cups and found more grip in corners as did billy when he drove it so we pushed it hard to a 1.36 lap and it never rose past 125 deg

Cool down laps don't count :hahaha:

[adem.csl]

My conclusion also, airflow

Restricted through a dense set of 2 fans and two rads and a load of plastic.fans being the culprit probably as they are both off on track.

You only have one a/c fan infront of your rad and the condensor so yes both those things restrict airflow as well..
Do you plan on removing your a/c system?
The plastic bits are supposed to guide the air into the rads.
Do you think that loosing rubbish infront of the rads will help?i think your right shimmy!

[adem.csl]

Cool down laps don't count :hahaha:

Lol bearing in mind my hard lap would be your cool down lap lol

[shane@mbtech]

My conclusion also, airflow

Restricted through a dense set of 2 fans and two rads and a load of plastic.fans being the culprit probably as they are both off on track.

Take one off and remove a few grams of gas out of AC system. Should stop pressure rising in AC system if 1 fan is not enough when stationary.

[_Nathan_]

The canted over rads solution works well, during normal temps often have to run a line or two of tape over the front grill to get the temps up.

[Mike R]

My water temps are always absolutely spot on, it is only my oil temps that go to the ¾ mark (never above) - however, I have my number plate "quick release" and never run this on either of my cars on track, which improves airflow no end.

Perhaps I am worrying too much and running it to the ¾ mark is not an issue?

[shane@mbtech]

Most have water temp issues mike.

My oil runs at approx 125 on hard sessions.

I'm going to remove the big huge electric fan on mine and wire in place a smaller fan. This should give better airflow through the rads at the front.
The AC system will only need the fan whilst stationary anyhow, I'll just drop a little gas out the system to keep pressure/temp down in AC system.

My non AC car had no issues at spa, whereas shimmy had to lift off. Well that's what he said, maybe that was his excuse for not be able to keep up;)

The oil temp has always worried me, but they all seem to do this.

I however this time am running a system that will dramatically reduce cylinder temps, ergo lower oil temps :thumbs:

[Mike R]

Most have water temp issues mike.

My oil runs at approx 125 on hard sessions.

I'm going to remove the big huge electric fan on mine and wire in place a smaller fan. This should give better airflow through the rads at the front.
The AC system will only need the fan whilst stationary anyhow, I'll just drop a little gas out the system to keep pressure/temp down in AC system.

My non AC car had no issues at spa, whereas shimmy had to lift off. Well that's what he said, maybe that was his excuse for not be able to keep up;)

The oil temp has always worried me, but they all seem to do this.

I however this time am running a system that will dramatically reduce cylinder temps, ergo lower oil temps :thumbs:

I think the number plate disrupts the airflow and I think that the fact that I never run mine on track is why I have never experienced water temp issues :).

Given I also change the oil after every second track day, I think I'll be okay then, but I will wait with interest to see how Adem's / your car performs with the diverter valve / fan removal and then make a decision on whether one of these with an inline thermostat is worth while.

As I mentioned on a previous thread, the US guys rave about removing the bulky OE fan arrangement and replace with SPAL fans, so is this what direction you will be going?

[_Nathan_]

Interstingly (or not) I never had water temp issues and ran a 3/4 size front plate that didn't get in the way of the rad.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote- ''I've never seen you mention doing any track days with the car and I would have thought such a recognisable car would get photographed a lot.''

Less is more MikeR, but why would anybody
want to Photo some old E46 Shed plodding around
on line, when you have this splendid Blue Oval
''Drifting sideways round nearly ever corner''
makes for far more spectacular pics.

All the S54 Oil Filtre blocks I have ever had apart
have an oil stat fitted that when open would make
60% flow across the dual bridge impossible purely
by its design/function let alone anything else.

Where is this 40% Flow Data and better still who
complied it ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike R]

Hi,

Quote- ''I've never seen you mention doing any track days with the car and I would have thought such a recognisable car would get photographed a lot.''

Less is more MikeR, but why would anybody
want to Photo some old E46 Shed plodding around
on line, when you have this splendid Blue Oval
''Drifting sideways round nearly ever corner''
makes for far more spectacular pics.

All the S54 Oil Filtre blocks I have ever had apart
have an oil stat fitted that when open would make
60% flow across the dual bridge impossible purely
by its design/function let alone anything else.

Where is this 40% Flow Data and better still who
complied it ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Danny,
Your "bat mobile" needs to get on track more often, I'd really love a passenger ride :). And as you know, drifting isn't fast, but is fun (but usually gets a black flag and a "ticking off" :blalalala: ).

Have you seen the CSL on You Tube that the Japanese guy owns - it is very similar spec to yours (aero wise etc) and even more stripped out? he's now fitted a Quaife sequential box and it does sub minute laps of Tsukuba:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SqMf2hKCRU8&list=UUYM8F8Rm3t8YeR4zYNpW3Xw&feature=c4-overview

The flow data was supplied by the technical guy (Gary Gray) at Bimmerworld :). He actually stated that they averaged 30-40%.

[shane@mbtech]

I think the number plate disrupts the airflow and I think that the fact that I never run mine on track is why I have never experienced water temp issues :).

Given I also change the oil after every second track day, I think I'll be okay then, but I will wait with interest to see how Adem's / your car performs with the diverter valve / fan removal and then make a decision on whether one of these with an inline thermostat is worth while.

As I mentioned on a previous thread, the US guys rave about removing the bulky OE fan arrangement and replace with SPAL fans, so is this what direction you will be going?

Yes spal fan.

Running a little injection system too:-D

[Mike R]

Yes spal fan.

Running a little injection system too:-D

Would you mind posting up the info once it has all been fitted and tested :)?

[shane@mbtech]

Would you mind posting up the info once it has all been fitted and tested :)?

Of course.

I want to get it fitted and trialled first. :beer:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Mr. Lawsy please tell me that your not going
to run a Water / Meth injection system on
the S54.

The S54 cylinedr head for what ever reason is
prone to corrosion pitting which can occur even when
the anti freeze mix weakens and electrolysis occurs as
more evident around the feed holes for the head water jacket,
BMW has stopped coating the Head Gaskets now and with
replacement Head Gaskets, most S54's have been replaced,
you have raw copper now in contact with aluminium.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[shane@mbtech]

Hi,

Mr. Lawsy please tell me that your not going
to run a Water / Meth injection system on
the S54.

The S54 cylinedr head for what ever reason is
prone to corrosion pitting which can occur even when
the anti freeze mix weakens and electrolysis occurs as
more evident around the feed holes for the head water jacket,
BMW has stopped coating the Head Gaskets now and with
replacement Head Gaskets, most S54's have been replaced,
you have raw copper now in contact with aluminium.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

Its not going to be used on a permanent basis, only on track.
Not mapped in, purely as a safety buffer. Used it on other cars with great results, and no issues.

My car will do about 2000-4000 miles per year, and the Meth will only be injected WOT, on track only.

I am willing to try it, you get nowhere without trying. :thumbs:

Have you tried it on the S54 Danny?

[The Gorilla]

Hi Shane,

I have a S54 CSL cylinder Head here
which was taken off an engine where
Water / Meth injection had been run for
around 12-16 months.
[not by me]

I purchased the engine for the bottom end
for another car as it was only 15,000
miles and thought I could keep the complete
CSL head as a spare.

I will take a couple of pics the weekend
and send you them.

I would be very careful as the the combination
of Iron Block, alloy head, and bare copper head
gasket having a water/meth ''spitzer'' injected in it,
as its already a Bavarian Cocktail that does not
mix so well.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike R]

Its not going to be used on a permanent basis, only on track.
Not mapped in, purely as a safety buffer. Used it on other cars with great results, and no issues.

My car will do about 2000-4000 miles per year, and the Meth will only be injected WOT, on track only.

I am willing to try it, you get nowhere without trying. :thumbs:

Have you tried it on the S54 Danny?

That makes no sense to me on a normally aspirated engine. I can only imagine you will just end up inducing misfires.

The Cossie has WI as standard, but it is ECU controlled and only comes on when Air Charge Temps exceed 44°C and the boost is above 7psi (to prevent it coming on at low rpm / and or from heat-soak). It then automatically turns off when the ACTs drop back below 38°C or the boost drops below 7psi. By using these parameters and a pair of fine 0.6mm WI jets, most of the water is evaporated in the heat-exchange process and so only steam vapour enters the engine.

The problem with using WI on an NA engine is that the ACTs aren't sufficiently high (no compression process), so you will not get the water converting to vapour in any heat exchange process, and so far more water droplets will enter the combustion process that will reduce the octane value of the fuel as well as trying to drown the spark, resulting in misfires.

[shane@mbtech]

That makes no sense to me on a normally aspirated engine. I can only imagine you will just end up inducing misfires.

The Cossie has WI as standard, but it is ECU controlled and only comes on when Air Charge Temps exceed 44°C and the boost is above 7psi (to prevent it coming on at low rpm / and or from heat-soak). It then automatically turns off when the ACTs drop back below 38°C or the boost drops below 7psi. By using these parameters and a pair of fine 0.6mm WI jets, most of the water is evaporated in the heat-exchange process and so only steam vapour enters the engine.

The problem with using WI on an NA engine is that the ACTs aren't sufficiently high (no compression process), so you will not get the water converting to vapour in any heat exchange process, and so far more water droplets will enter the combustion process that will reduce the octane value of the fuel as well as trying to drown the spark, resulting in misfires.


It's a meth mix, not just water mike.

We had great success with meth injection direct into inlet mani on Evo.

The extra ignition it was able to run was not far off race fuel. Much cooler running on engine. I will be adding after mapping. Atomisation will be fine, it's injected in a very fine mist and I will use WOT only. If it doesn't work, I'll remove it. No hardship.

They ran meth injection for years on Indy cars, NA, with great results.

[Mike R]

It's a meth mix, not just water mike.

We had great success with meth injection direct into inlet mani on Evo.

The extra ignition it was able to run was not far off race fuel. Much cooler running on engine. I will be adding after mapping. Atomisation will be fine, it's injected in a very fine mist and I will use WOT only. If it doesn't work, I'll remove it. No hardship.

They ran meth injection for years on Indy cars, NA, with great results.

On a turbo car (like the Evo), no bother, but I bet you will be removing it off the E46 :hahaha:.

However, I would never run it how you were on the Evo, unless it was mapped so that when the low level light for the water / meth mix bottle came on, it switched back to the standard map, as running out of the water / meth mix with the increased ignition timing doesn't bear thinking about LOL.

[shane@mbtech]

On a turbo car (like the Evo), no bother, but I bet you will be removing it off the E46 :hahaha:.

However, I would never run it how you were on the Evo, unless it was mapped so that when the low level light for the water / meth mix bottle came on, it switched back to the standard map, as running out of the water / meth mix with the increased ignition timing doesn't bear thinking about LOL.

It was fully mapped in the evo, and linked into ecu.

My reasoning on m3 is purely to keep it safe.

Many are running water/meth injection on NA with great results.

I'll keep you updated. I AM trying it, so the proof will be in the pudding.

[shimmy]

Lawsy, the heat soak issue will only turn up around 23-24 deg C so you'll have to come south to catch that sort of heat, but very very interested in the results.

The whole airflow issue inc number plate and fans is interesting and worth playing about with (does Alexxgtt run without front plate on track, as he also has experienced the heat soak overheating)

[Mike R]

Lawsy, the heat soak issue will only turn up around 23-24 deg C so you'll have to come south to catch that sort of heat, but very very interested in the results.

The whole airflow issue inc number plate and fans is interesting and worth playing about with (does Alexxgtt run without front plate on track, as he also has experienced the heat soak overheating)

What is this specific heat soak overheating that you talk of and how does it manifest itself?

Would a bonnet with vents help, or is that "cutter" talk LOL?

[shimmy]

What is this specific heat soak overheating that you talk of and how does it manifest itself?

Would a bonnet with vents help, or is that "cutter" talk LOL?


May well do, I have a thread started somewhere (overheating on track)

I think it's related to when the engine gets up to temps on track on a hot day, then at full throttle the heat seems to grow and oil then water climb (water would climb to red) but soon as you come off 100% throttle it drops back.

Tried a few things and sow how thing the a/c cars have restrictive airflow and fans stop running at high speeds.

Maybe vents, lifted bonnet, extra front airflow all help BUT bigger oil rad, bigger water rad, new M stat, new pump clean rad etc all do not.

[Mike R]

May well do, I have a thread started somewhere (overheating on track)

I think it's related to when the engine gets up to temps on track on a hot day, then at full throttle the heat seems to grow and oil then water climb (water would climb to red) but soon as you come off 100% throttle it drops back.

Tried a few things and sow how thing the a/c cars have restrictive airflow and fans stop running at high speeds.

Maybe vents, lifted bonnet, extra front airflow all help BUT bigger oil rad, bigger water rad, new M stat, new pump clean rad etc all do not.

Never had my water go past the mid-way point (and it was very hot at the 'ring in August), so can't comment. Did you check your water pump impeller?

[shimmy]

Never had my water go past the mid-way point (and it was very hot at the 'ring in August), so can't comment. Did you check your water pump impeller?

Nope, I bought a new water pump.

[shimmy]

Never had my water go past the mid-way point (and it was very hot at the 'ring in August), so can't comment. Did you check your water pump impeller?

But you have to drive it hard :-D

[Mike R]

But you have to drive it hard :-D

So I assume you have only experienced this as a passenger in your car with Lawsy driving ;)?

[shimmy]

So I assume you have only experienced this as a passenger in your car with Lawsy driving ;)?

Wrong again....Yanto told me:finga:

[adem.csl]

Shimmy does your heater blow out constant hot air in those conditions??maybe partially blocked lowering water circulation??
I haven't had any overheating issues on track.
Is your a/c condenser in good condition not all blocked up with leaves n stuff?that could restrict air flow to your rad!!

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Shimmy- in regard to the ''running hot'' which
if I am correct was at Spa ? where cars with
almost identical set ups, in respect of Cooling,
was that some Cars after several laps and with
ambient Air Temps being above 28c ?after
several laps with high engine loads, some
cars were OK on water temp, although they
were experincing higher oil temps, but your
car and a few others ? were seeing very high
water temps and having to lift, ie reduce load
to cool engine water temps down.

I think there was another thread where somebody
was running their Heater on full to try and
pull temps back down

For sure front number plate removed, AC Rad etc
removed could all assist and might make a few degrees
difference to overall coolant temps but not the
differincies you talk about.

From what you have said I would guess that there was
a good 10 maybe 15 degree difference in coolant temps
between almost identical cars [cooling set up etc].

Based on what you have said and if I have read it
correctly in regard of the overall conditions and symptons,
then this may well be Anti Freeze related.

Example- A pressurised coolant system with 30% anti freeze to 70%
water will start to boil at least 12 degrees lower than the
same coolant system with 50% anti freeze 50% water.
The same coolant system running 70% anti freeze with
30% water, the highest mix you can run, will run well over
15 degrees more, even higher in some conditions.

While nobody knows what percentage Anti freeze the various
Cars were running, it is a fact that its the water system that
cools the thermal store [engine] so the more the water temp
rises the less effective the coolant is being, which can only be
down cooling of the rads etc or the coolant itself.

As the cars mentioned were all almost identical with same water Rad,
oil rads, std hoses etc and the fact that number plate and A/C removal
might make a few degrees difference then it does suggest
that the reason may be some cars could well have been running a much higher
concentration of Anti freeze thus running at approx 10 maybe 15
degrees lower on the water Temp Gauge, but still showing similar
higher oil temps.

If it was down to cooling air flow then there would have to
some major differincies between the cars in question
which from all accounts there is not.

Bit off topic but still related, just.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[shimmy]

Shimmy does your heater blow out constant hot air in those conditions??maybe partially blocked lowering water circulation??
I haven't had any overheating issues on track.
Is your a/c condenser in good condition not all blocked up with leaves n stuff?that could restrict air flow to your rad!!

Heater- no don't think so as I remember trying to lower temps by turning heater to FULL HOT , matrix could have been an issue but surely that would have an effect at all speeds (like many possible causes)

I had the rad and AC rad take out and cleaned inside and out, when pump, fan, stat and cooont replaced.

[shimmy]

Hi,

Shimmy- in regard to the ''running hot'' which
if I am correct was at Spa ? where cars with
almost identical set ups, in respect of Cooling,
was that some Cars after several laps and with
ambient Air Temps being above 28c ?after
several laps with high engine loads, some
cars were OK on water temp, although they
were experincing higher oil temps, but your
car and a few others ? were seeing very high
water temps and having to lift, ie reduce load
to cool engine water temps down.

I think there was another thread where somebody
was running their Heater on full to try and
pull temps back down

For sure front number plate removed, AC Rad etc
removed could all assist and might make a few degrees
difference to overall coolant temps but not the
differincies you talk about.

From what you have said I would guess that there was
a good 10 maybe 15 degree difference in coolant temps
between almost identical cars [cooling set up etc].

Based on what you have said and if I have read it
correctly in regard of the overall conditions and symptons,
then this may well be Anti Freeze related.

Example- A pressurised coolant system with 30% anti freeze to 70%
water will start to boil at least 12 degrees lower than the
same coolant system with 50% anti freeze 50% water.
The same coolant system running 70% anti freeze with
30% water, the highest mix you can run, will run well over
15 degrees more, even higher in some conditions.

While nobody knows what percentage Anti freeze the various
Cars were running, it is a fact that its the water system that
cools the thermal store [engine] so the more the water temp
rises the less effective the coolant is being, which can only be
down cooling of the rads etc or the coolant itself.

As the cars mentioned were all almost identical with same water Rad,
oil rads, std hoses etc and the fact that number plate and A/C removal
might make a few degrees difference then it does suggest
that the reason may be some cars could well have been running a much higher
concentration of Anti freeze thus running at approx 10 maybe 15
degrees lower on the water Temp Gauge, but still showing similar
higher oil temps.

If it was down to cooling air flow then there would have to
some major differincies between the cars in question
which from all accounts there is not.

Bit off topic but still related, just.

Regards,

The Gorilla.


I take your point on antifreeze although US car in California have same issues and I doubt they run any antifreeze (but worth a shot)

Basically ANY track with decent straights (100% throttle areas) after a few laps pushing on (and I push pretty hard) after getting up to temperature, after a distance at 100% throttle you see the oil temps again starting to rise first, not much but a rise, followed by water which starts to rise form just under 3/4 to the red (obviously you don't let it go to the red)

Once you hit a few corners or if you back off, the car cools back to normal quickly.

Tried changing rad(cleaned and flushed), oil cooler(new), MStat, new water pump, new viscous fan, new fuel regulator (as they can make car fun very slightly lean), new fuel filter, also obviously had new engine which rules that out.

I thought the symptoms where feeling related due to the 100% throttle issue, but now I'm thinking maybe is air flow and somehow at high speeds the air (entering already at 23-24oC air temps doesn't cool the engine at 100% throttle

BUT I am seeing the oil rise first, not water....does that make any difference to what could be the cause?

[northernjim]

I thought the symptoms where feeling related due to the 100% throttle issue, but now I'm thinking maybe is air flow and somehow at high speeds the air (entering already at 23-24oC air temps doesn't cool the engine at 100% throttle

BUT I am seeing the oil rise first, not water....does that make any difference to what could be the cause?




I'm not saying you're big boned Shimmy but....


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02074/obese_2074995b.jpg




maybe there is another reason the little donkey overheats in your car?:smt102



:smt056

[Mike R]

Shimmy,
Have you tested the coolant for any signs of hydrocarbons? The symptoms you describe are classic head gasket failure?

[AlexGTT]

Lawsy, the heat soak issue will only turn up around 23-24 deg C so you'll have to come south to catch that sort of heat, but very very interested in the results.

The whole airflow issue inc number plate and fans is interesting and worth playing about with (does Alexxgtt run without front plate on track, as he also has experienced the heat soak overheating)

Shim, I run smaller number plate but no number plate holder. The bottom edge of the plate does not impede on opening to lower rad feeds.

My cooling issues were very similar to Shim, only in hot ambient temps and the cars are similar spec.

I now have Turner Motorsport oil cooler and oil temps do not rise like they did. However, water temps did but slower than before.

I would explain the differences some are experiencing is mainly down to driving. You only have to back off a tiny bit to see temps drop back, for example change gear 500rpm sooner. I've sat in many CSL's on TD's and it's quite evident to me how each person uses different revs, short shifts here or there, some are WOT in certain places where others aren't, etc. I'm not saying some are faster or slower, only that some achieve similar lap times but in very different ways.

The problem is obviously: the inability of the cooling system to extract enough temps out of the engine coolant under full load once full heat soak happens in hot ambient temperatures. Simply broken down it's either lack of rad cooling area, lack of sufficient coolant flow (restriction) or a combination of both.

I think it's coolant flow and I have tried something that up to now has worked. However, I'm staying cautious until fully tested at a really hot TD. So far it's worked at a track in 25 degree heat. That same track in identical temps previously caused the issue.

Now waiting for Summer.

[AlexGTT]

Shimmy,
Have you tested the coolant for any signs of hydrocarbons? The symptoms you describe are classic head gasket failure?

No. Shimmy did same with new engine.

Mine is identical and coolant has been tested as well as several leak down and compression tests.

Anyway, besides that, these engines (in the main) only leak between cylinders when head gaskets go and not into water jackets..........unless head cracked.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote - ''...US car in California have same issues and I doubt they run any antifreeze....''

I doubt they do also but that's the point
as anti freeze has a higher boiling
point than water on its own.

The fact that Oil goes up first and water is
stable, and then water starts to rise will
be caused by the Thermal store [engine]
temps rising beyond the water jacket limits.

In say 28c + ambinet air temp, then the surface
area of the std coolant rad must be almost at the
upper factory limits for the water temp at say 80%
engine load to rise and only fall, when engine load
is decreased.

Hence even a 10 or 15 % increase in airflow, given
the ambinet air temp of 28c +, will do little to lower coolant
temp, either a greater coolant rad surface area so the
coolant limits are increased to dissapte more heat
under high load or the coolant itself must be able
to absorb more heat without boiling.

Think of your central heating system at home
say a 120,000 BTU boiler running say 12 rads putting
out 85,000 BTU, say 14,000 for the hot water cylinder
and it copes to say -8 or 9 now drop the external
temps to say -25 and the 20,000 spare BTU capacity
would be very marginal in maintaing say 75 in the
living rooms and 70 in the bedrooms.

Remove say two rads by shutting down their rad
valves and the overall system gains back say another
10,000 btu's with which to assist in mainting required temps.

I think your correct that in heavy load situations with
higher ambinet temps the std coolant set up breaches
its factory limits, Oil temps start the process by increasing
the thermal mass temps [engine] and then the coolant
starts to struggle keeping within limits.

Its in part why I went with the Heat exchanger and the
Tropical stat as the combination of the two lowers
my normal operating temps on both water and oil
giving a greater margin for when ambinet air temps
are hotter which when combined with a few air
flow alterations and good concertration of Anti freeze
has seen no real coolant issues to date.

Another point on air flow, is that the M3 Alloy lower subframe
Brace and the front undertray prevent any real airflow
around the sump.
Some airflow to the sump would also assist in keeping
oil temps down.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[AlexGTT]

The fact that Oil goes up first and water is
stable, and then water starts to rise will
be caused by the Thermal store [engine]
temps rising beyond the water jacket limits.

In say 28c + ambinet air temp, then the surface
area of the std coolant rad must be almost at the
upper factory limits for the water temp at say 80%
engine load to rise and only fall, when engine load
is decreased.



Hi Gorilla, this is of course the crux of the problem. It is a road car after all and such parameters are not catered for.

[shimmy]

Shimmy,
Have you tested the coolant for any signs of hydrocarbons? The symptoms you describe are classic head gasket failure?


Once again, was first issue but happened before HG failure, after HG failure and after Full engine change.

NEXT

(been through all these)

[shane@mbtech]

Gorilla and Shimmy

Antifreeze/coolant is used to both stop overheating and freezing. Which I'm sure you are well aware Danny.

So yes the Californian cars will run coolant.

The coolant % is an interesting one, and something I will monitor.

[shane@mbtech]

Me and shimmy pretty much same speed at spa, my water temp didn't budge, his moved a lot. It was a hot day circa 28* c iirc.

It's certainly a funny one.



Shim, I run smaller number plate but no number plate holder. The bottom edge of the plate does not impede on opening to lower rad feeds.

My cooling issues were very similar to Shim, only in hot ambient temps and the cars are similar spec.

I now have Turner Motorsport oil cooler and oil temps do not rise like they did. However, water temps did but slower than before.

I would explain the differences some are experiencing is mainly down to driving. You only have to back off a tiny bit to see temps drop back, for example change gear 500rpm sooner. I've sat in many CSL's on TD's and it's quite evident to me how each person uses different revs, short shifts here or there, some are WOT in certain places where others aren't, etc. I'm not saying some are faster or slower, only that some achieve similar lap times but in very different ways.

The problem is obviously: the inability of the cooling system to extract enough temps out of the engine coolant under full load once full heat soak happens in hot ambient temperatures. Simply broken down it's either lack of rad cooling area, lack of sufficient coolant flow (restriction) or a combination of both.

I think it's coolant flow and I have tried something that up to now has worked. However, I'm staying cautious until fully tested at a really hot TD. So far it's worked at a track in 25 degree heat. That same track in identical temps previously caused the issue.

Now waiting for Summer.

[AlexGTT]

I would explain the differences some are experiencing is mainly down to driving. You only have to back off a tiny bit to see temps drop back, for example change gear 500rpm sooner. I've sat in many CSL's on TD's and it's quite evident to me how each person uses different revs, short shifts here or there, some are WOT in certain places where others aren't, etc. I'm not saying some are faster or slower, only that some achieve similar lap times but in very different ways.



Me and shimmy pretty much same speed at spa, my water temp didn't budge, his moved a lot. It was a hot day circa 28* c iirc.

It's certainly a funny one.

Agreed Shane, which is why I wrote the highlighted above.

It is indeed strange.

[adem.csl]

Gorilla could exhaust gas temps cause a problem at WOT?
I have read (WITHOUT PROOF)that certain engine remaps they run extremely high egt's from such a highly tuned map????could that be his cause??
A lot of fuel/timing/air mixture causing it to run hot??


Has shimmy had his car remapped??

[shane@mbtech]

Agreed Shane, which is why I wrote the highlighted above.

It is indeed strange.

We both had our throttle pinned. As you know Alex I have 2 throttle positions, 100% on or off. And I'm not afraid of revs. They're there, so ill use them :hahaha:

[shane@mbtech]

Gorilla could exhaust gas temps cause a problem at WOT?
I have read (WITHOUT PROOF)that certain engine remaps they run extremely high egt's from such a highly tuned map????could that be his cause??
A lot of fuel/timing/air mixture causing it to run hot??


Has shimmy had his car remapped??

High egt is a bad thing and it's an effect,

[adem.csl]

High egt is a bad thing and it's an effect,

The exhaust manifold as you know runs soo close to the side of the block if they are overly heating then they can transmit heAt to the engine block aiding in heating the water!!!just an idea seeing as the cooling route has been almost exhausted!!

[Mike R]

The exhaust manifold as you know runs soo close to the side of the block if they are overly heating then they can transmit heAt to the engine block aiding in heating the water!!!just an idea seeing as the cooling route has been almost exhausted!!

I have the manifold on the Cossie heat treated as on track with the ALS running it can see 1100 deg C EGTs :).

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/MikeR/Escort%20Photos/Zircotecexhaustmanifold03.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/MikeR/Escort%20Photos/Zircotecexhaustmanifold02.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/MikeR/Escort%20Photos/Zircotecexhaustmanifold01.jpg

Perhaps it is worth doing on the CSL?

[CraigMillwardCroft]

I'm not saying you're big boned Shimmy but....


http://i.telegraph.co.uk/multimedia/archive/02074/obese_2074995b.jpg




maybe there is another reason the little donkey overheats in your car?:smt102



:smt056

:smt082:smt082:smt082

[shimmy]

Gorilla could exhaust gas temps cause a problem at WOT?
I have read (WITHOUT PROOF)that certain engine remaps they run extremely high egt's from such a highly tuned map????could that be his cause??
A lot of fuel/timing/air mixture causing it to run hot??


Has shimmy had his car remapped??

Old engine had a couple, but removed and new engine never (still same issues)



Regarding nitifreeze, are we saying go to 70% antifreeze, 30% water for max cooling?


:drool:

[O'Neill]

Old engine had a couple, but removed and new engine never (still same issues)



Regarding nitifreeze, are we saying go to 70% antifreeze, 30% water for max cooling?


:drool:

Thought you had the Simpson map with de limit.

[shimmy]

Thought you had the Simpson map with de limit.

I know someone who had the Evolve map, then Simpsons map, the. evolve map, then had the maps erased and a standard BMW map put on.

Not me though.

I just have a new engine with BMW map.

[O'Neill]

I know someone who had the Evolve map, then Simpsons map, the. evolve map, then had the maps erased and a standard BMW map put on.

Not me though.

I just have a new engine with BMW map.

Ahh, you also said when you had the Nitron they were good :whistle:

[shimmy]

Ahh, you also said when you had the Nitron they were good :whistle:


Had to sell the shitty fuckers somehow :)

[alexk]

I still believe the OEM thermostat goes wrong very soon.

If you see the analysis I did here with an old and new thermostat, it is clear that the old thermostat does not open fully.
http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6793&page=4

Guess what ? Last summer I had overheating issues again (even on the highway in Greece, going uphill with 160km/h and certainly not WOT).
At the same time, when the car is driven normally the water temp is moving between the center and then less than center point.
That's a failed thermostat.
I am going to change my waterpump and thermostat now.
As soon as I receive the new one, I will do a new test again and I am sure the one that I currently have in the car, has the same symptoms. Does not open fully.

So when you wonder why shimmy's car was overheating and lawsy's did not, I am sure it's the thermostat.

I personally never had oil temps higher than 120C (even in a trackday last summer with 36-37C).
I am not sure what can be the root cause. Old oil ? Bad Oil thermostat ? Not sure to be honest.

Here's my post from July 2013>
-----------
If you see a post of mine with some thermostat tests, I think the S54 thermostat design is a bit clunky and I start to believe that it develops issues over time, especially on cars that are not being driven oftenly.
If the thermostat does not open my 1-2mm, the water flow will be reduced.
-----------

[O'Neill]

Had to sell the shitty fuckers somehow :)

:-D:beer:

[alexk]

To add to the above.
Here's another good one for BMW. Bad quality of thermostats.
Mine is going to be warranty this time, as I have the other one less than 2 years.

[shane@mbtech]

Ahh, you also said when you had the Nitron they were good :whistle:

Ask him about the 4.10 diff:notworthy:

[shimmy]

To add to the above.
Here's another good one for BMW. Bad quality of thermostats.
Mine is going to be warranty this time, as I have the other one less than 2 years.

I swapped mine for MStat and no change

[O'Neill]

Guys as alexgtt has said, it's a road car with road car refinements.

Rip out the aircon system and aircon rad, put some holes in the bonnet, remove pollen filter and seals, get rid of the rad shrouding and viscous fan then the temps should be more stable.... Maybe.

[alexk]

I swapped mine for MStat and no change

How do you know it opens fully ?

[shimmy]

How do you know it opens fully ?

Just trusting that easier to beleive both are good and working rather than both are faulty, same as oil cooler, pump, fan, HG, rads, etc etc

Always possible i have twos faulty ones but not likely.

[shimmy]

:ban:Ask him about the 4.10 diff:notworthy:


:ban::ban::ban:

[O'Neill]

Ask him about the 4.10 diff:notworthy:

He'd be fucked in Thailand, literally:wink:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote, ''Gorilla could exhaust gas temps cause a problem at WOT?''

For sure, as Mr Lawsy says you do not want
it, but if I am correct I think Shimmy was/is
running std Map etc.

As a side note on the E30 M3 with S54 CSL
engine I used an 3 core water rad with approx
35% more surface area than the std version.

But I also ran 2 x Heat exchangers and it was
dry sumped so the oil lines helped to dissapte oil
heat, but getting that engine over 100 deg
oil temp even with 28c plus ambient air was virtually
impossible, and water was always around 80/85 ish.
no matter what your driving style was.
[coolant was approx 30% Anti freeze 70% water]

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Mike R]

Any views on this?
http://store.activeautowerke.com/e36--e46--sport-fan-clutch-including-m3s-p69.aspx

[shane@mbtech]

Any views on this?
http://store.activeautowerke.com/e36--e46--sport-fan-clutch-including-m3s-p69.aspx

Which is faster mike, a fan pulling air through the rad, or driving at 120mph with the air pushing through the rad at that speed?

[shane@mbtech]

Ps the fan will be less efficient than the air pushing through when travelling at approx 20-30mph;)

[shane@mbtech]

So remove your viscous and as long as you are not in traffic it will only benefit. Less drag on belt system. :thumbs:

[Mike R]

Which is faster mike, a fan pulling air through the rad, or driving at 120mph with the air pushing through the rad at that speed?

I don't believe any one has complained of suffering from a hot engine doing a steady 120mph ;).

From my understanding, this uprated viscous coupling is supposed to speed the fan up at lower engine rpms, where doing so is alleged to remove the heat out of the system when the normal arrangement would have slowed down (i.e in the corners), which is supposed to help the thermal recovery prior to the next high loading on the straights?

Makes sense to me, but I was more wondering if anyone had tried it for a real world opinion.

[shane@mbtech]

I don't believe any one has complained of suffering from a hot engine doing a steady 120mph ;).

From my understanding, this uprated viscous coupling is supposed to speed the fan up at lower engine rpms, where doing so is alleged to remove the heat out of the system when the normal arrangement would have slowed down (i.e in the corners), which is supposed to help the thermal recovery prior to the next high loading on the straights?

Makes sense to me, but I was more wondering if anyone had tried it for a real world opinion.


Mike you are missing the point that the fan will not pull more air through the rad, than the air passing through at say 30mph

After 30mph the viscous will do fuck all.

[shane@mbtech]

And the water temp rising is high speed WOT application. Ease of throttle and it instantly drops.

[Mike R]

I'm only throwing ideas out there :partyman:.

The standard arrangement is supposed to be 3000cfm as is the SPAL, but I image that the standard arrangement is its peak, where the SPAL does this as soon as it comes on, so perhaps it is this fact that causes improved heat recovery that the Yanks are mentioning.

Think about it logically, WOT, huge thermal loads, come to a corner, reduced revs, reduced fan efficiency and then WOT again, so continue this for several laps and gradually the thermal load overcomes the cooling.

However change the set up so that the 3000cfm is running all the time, the car slows down at the end of the WOT, but the cooling remains constant, it recovers briefly, then WOT, huge thermal load, followed by brief recovery and repeat. Perhaps it is the way the standard set up works in that it doesn't allow that brief recovery (instead, it's actually putting even more thermal load into the engine), as instead of a period of high flow at the end of the WOT, it is getting a reduction of flow as the rpm drops.

So maybe an electric water pump and an SPAL fan would be the cure?

[shimmy]

Remind me of what happens to the a/c fan and viscous fan at different temps and speeds.

Obviously the viscous fan stops pushing air once it cools (e viscous bit) and doesn't the a/c fan stop running above certain speeds ?

[shimmy]

Just checking Alexk old post and Auxillary fan (fitted to both a/c and non-a/c cars, builds up but then stops working at 87.5mph. Above that speed it I guess revolves and is driven partly by the air speed of air entering the car grille.

When does Viscous fan start/stop running?

[Mike R]

Remind me of what happens to the a/c fan and viscous fan at different temps and speeds.

Obviously the viscous fan stops pushing air once it cools (e viscous bit) and doesn't the a/c fan stop running above certain speeds ?

I'm new to CSLs so can't give that info LOL.

If it was for Cossies though, that would be easy (but it uses an electric fan as standard, which I have upgraded to higher flow SPAL items). And it is purely temperature controlled.

The Escort one comes on half speed at 93 deg and then full speed at 99 deg (switching back off at 87 deg). This is because being a newer car than the original Sierra, it is subject to more strict emissions regulations, so is deliberately run hotter. However, this causes overheating on track, as it allows the water temps to get too high because the fans come on ful speed too late.

The Sierra runs a single stage fan switch, which comes on full speed at 93 deg, so we fit these to the Escorts, which maintains the temps at an acceptable level for much longer.

I'm sure you're now going to educate me on how the BMW arrangement works, which is going to blow my theory out of the water LOL.

[shimmy]

Mike

See other thread, I wasn't trying to catch you out, I'm not technical enough to know or remember tbh.

I think froUS forums they overcome the problem by ditching viscous fan, removing electric and fitting a high speed SPAL That is controlled by temp level s(and doesn't go off at speed)

But they do then occassionally get overheating at low speeds/traffic in hot weather.

[Mike R]

Mike

See other thread, I wasn't trying to catch you out, I'm not technical enough to know or remember tbh.

I think froUS forums they overcome the problem by ditching viscous fan, removing electric and fitting a high speed SPAL That is controlled by temp level s(and doesn't go off at speed)

But they do then occassionally get overheating at low speeds/traffic in hot weather.

Obviously the key would be to having both the data of the electric fan and viscous fan and see what CFMs these create when running together at slow speeds. And then see if this can be recreated by changing the switch on points in the map?

Perhaps switching it on at a lower temp will prevent it from climbing so rapidly. In my experience it is far easier to prevent the water temps from getting too hot, rather than trying to reduce them when they do :).

[shane@mbtech]

Obviously the key would be to having both the data of the electric fan and viscous fan and see what CFMs these create when running together at slow speeds. And then see if this can be recreated by changing the switch on points in the map?

Perhaps switching it on at a lower temp will prevent it from climbing so rapidly. In my experience it is far easier to prevent the water temps from getting too hot, rather than trying to reduce them when they do :).



Every little helps.

But I'm adamant on a track like spa for instance. The fans will be doing bugger all.

[shimmy]

Every little helps.

But I'm adamant on a track like spa for instance. The fans will be doing bugger all.

If BMW turn off the aux fan at 87.5mph then for 75% of the time that is off and the other 25% just adding abit of air flow

Viscous fan, I have no idea!

[AlexGTT]

Every little helps.

But I'm adamant on a track like spa for instance. The fans will be doing bugger all.

As Shane said, fan is fuck all to do with it. Only reason for any fan is to cool at standstill and very slow town speed traffic. Above 20mph when airflow takes over a fan is next to useless.

Ideally the solution is something like this but not really possible on CSL without major modification. Sealed inlets and outlets. Example not the configuration suitable for E46 but you get the theory.

[alexk]

What if we open outlets on the plastic cover under the chassis ?

[AlexGTT]

Not sure it would Alex. I think the whole engine compartment and undertray kind of act in a similar, if very inefficient way to the drawing theory, with exits at the rear of the undertray. Maybe opening additional holes will break what seal there is and make it worse? Don't know, just an idea. Might work if extra outlets far enough back?

[shimmy]

I've got a feeling that my next move is to try some extra openings somewhere (unless Lawsy finds a solution first)

Maybe we nee to meet at Simpsons in he spring, or at Lawsys when we go to Oulton to see what we can do.

Trouble is there are only 1-2 days a year that it affects and you can see the results.

[_Nathan_]

No need for any fans at all on track, and pushing air under the car isn't ideal IMO.

[AlexGTT]

No need for any fans at all on track, and pushing air under the car isn't ideal IMO.

Agreed Nathan but would ideally like to exhaust air post radiator. Easiest way is forward angled radiator with sealed bonnet exhaust but major alterations required.

[shimmy]

No need for any fans at all on track, and pushing air under the car isn't ideal IMO.

So my issue might still be the blocking of air by the fans and other shite in the way!

[AlexGTT]

So my issue might still be the blocking of air by the fans and other shite in the way!

I think that certainly contributes but also there's a coolant flow restriction. I've had something done about that and tested for a while but it's not a permanent solution yet and it's not ideal. Will do something to make it ideal if fully proven.

[alexk]

Agreed Nathan but would ideally like to exhaust air post radiator. Easiest way is forward angled radiator with sealed bonnet exhaust but major alterations required.

Yes. The engine is too long for starters.
A P60B40 is needed. :drool:

[AlexGTT]

Yes. The engine is too long for starters.
A P60B40 is needed. :drool:

Get on it Alex. I'm sure Gorilla will assist.

[AlexGTT]

I've got a feeling that my next move is to try some extra openings somewhere (unless Lawsy finds a solution first)

Maybe we nee to meet at Simpsons in he spring, or at Lawsys when we go to Oulton to see what we can do.

Trouble is there are only 1-2 days a year that it affects and you can see the results.


Harbour Café meet. Breakfast on Ant and Jules.:wink::whistle:

[shane@mbtech]

Harbour Café meet. Breakfast on Ant and Jules.:wink::whistle:

I'm dropping the m3 at Simpsons for them to reinforce boot and add some more rear cage bits. Will be end of February. I'll give you a shout when I know exact dates. :thumbs:

[AlexGTT]

I'm dropping the m3 at Simpsons for them to reinforce boot and add some more rear cage bits. Will be end of February. I'll give you a shout when I know exact dates. :thumbs:

It's a date. Probably drop in for cuppa with Ant Monday. Will tell him to get his customer entertainment expenses out ready.;)

[stevenEK9]

Digging up this thread again...........

was at DN9 at the ring last year, near on every E46 M3 (including mine) had elevated coolant temps. running with the heaters full chat just about kept them stable but of course not ideal as you end up a sweaty mess when it's 30 deg outside

at the time my e46 was standard engine wise but with brand new genuine radiator & thermostat

anyone fitted a larger capacity radiator such as this?

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-187009-e46-m3-fluidyne-turner-aluminum-radiator-upgrade.aspx

in my old EK9 civic i replaced the standard half size radiator with a koyo one (4 times as big pretty much) and even with mega oil temps the coolant would never ever budge above 80 degrees - very effective

cheers

[Mike R]

Digging up this thread again...........

was at DN9 at the ring last year, near on every E46 M3 (including mine) had elevated coolant temps. running with the heaters full chat just about kept them stable but of course not ideal as you end up a sweaty mess when it's 30 deg outside

at the time my e46 was standard engine wise but with brand new genuine radiator & thermostat

anyone fitted a larger capacity radiator such as this?

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-187009-e46-m3-fluidyne-turner-aluminum-radiator-upgrade.aspx

in my old EK9 civic i replaced the standard half size radiator with a koyo one (4 times as big pretty much) and even with mega oil temps the coolant would never ever budge above 80 degrees - very effective

cheers

I was at the same event and I had my aircon running all the time due to the high ambients and never had any water temp issues (never went beyond half way), but my oil temp did regularly go to the ¾ mark (and on a hot lap, a fraction beyond). However, I only ever did one lap at a time (followed by a strict cool down regime of doing a "lap" around the the village (by turning right out of the circuit and then keep turning right until I returned to the main entrance - a good couple of miles)).

I also had my front number plate removed for maximum air flow.

My car is completely standard engine wise (just a Supersprint exhaust).

Based on this, I got the Bimmerworld oil cooler:
http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerworldcr-racing-e46-m3-oil-cooler-p1517.aspx

However, I've yet to experience conditions similar to DN9 since fitting it.

[shane@mbtech]

Again, my car never overheated at the ring in circa 29-30* temps.
Again my car has no aircon. Its got to be a air flow issue with the fans blocking flow, the aircon rad blocking flow.

I'm tempted to remove my A/C. window open is enough:smokin:

Digging up this thread again...........

was at DN9 at the ring last year, near on every E46 M3 (including mine) had elevated coolant temps. running with the heaters full chat just about kept them stable but of course not ideal as you end up a sweaty mess when it's 30 deg outside

at the time my e46 was standard engine wise but with brand new genuine radiator & thermostat

anyone fitted a larger capacity radiator such as this?

http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-187009-e46-m3-fluidyne-turner-aluminum-radiator-upgrade.aspx

in my old EK9 civic i replaced the standard half size radiator with a koyo one (4 times as big pretty much) and even with mega oil temps the coolant would never ever budge above 80 degrees - very effective

cheers

[stevenEK9]

I remember the car, Laurence did a bit of laptop trickery for you at some point?!

see i was the opposite, oil temps never exceeded 3/4, water temps was the issue

i would like to retain the AC, so think a more efficient radiator would work better for me

i'm now running a CSL rep bumper so can run it as below for track days without the plate to minimise any airflow disturbance up front also

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj14/stevenEK9/594E4C00-829A-472D-AF01-920CB14EC816-205-0000000B3F6D6A6E_zps18fe9395.jpg


I was at the same event and I had my aircon running all the time due to the high ambients and never had any water temp issues (never went beyond half way), but my oil temp did regularly go to the ¾ mark (and a little beyond). However, I only ever did one lap at a time (followed by a strict cool down regime of doing a "lap" around the the village (by turning right out of the circuit and then keep turning right until I returned to the main entrance - a good couple of miles)).

I also had my front number plate removed for maximum air flow.

My car is completely standard engine wise (just a Supersprint exhaust).

Based on this, I got the Bimmerworld oil cooler:
http://store.bimmerworld.com/bimmerworldcr-racing-e46-m3-oil-cooler-p1517.aspx

However, I've yet to experience conditions similar to DN9 since fitting it.

[Mike R]

I remember the car, Laurence did a bit of laptop trickery for you at some point?!

see i was the opposite, oil temps never exceeded 3/4, water temps was the issue

i would like to retain the AC, so think a more efficient radiator would work better for me

i'm now running a CSL rep bumper so can run it as below for track days without the plate to minimise any airflow disturbance up front also

http://i268.photobucket.com/albums/jj14/stevenEK9/594E4C00-829A-472D-AF01-920CB14EC816-205-0000000B3F6D6A6E_zps18fe9395.jpg

Hi Steve,
He did indeed - one of the wheel-speed sensors decided it had forgotten how to communicate with the ECU, so had to be re-coded :).

Mmmm, bizarre how the "getting hot" symptoms seem to vary from car to car. Either suffering from high oil temps OR high water temps.

[Ali M]

My car was behaving pretty much just as Steven's on DN9, oil was fine but water was nudging up to the red. I kept an eye on it and turned on the heaters to full whenever it started to climb.

I think we saw up to 33 deg ambient although keeping the rear pop windows open made it just about bearable :119:

I have a slightly smaller 3/4 plate which allows full airflow so no issues there.

My car was on original rad/waterpump/thermostat (to best of my knowledge) but was only around 35K miles, so would hope that all is well there (although not ruling out).

Lawsy - I read your AC comment earlier in thread and it matches comments from guys in the states with E46M track/race cars - biggest single difference they say was removing AC and actually getting some decent flow to the rad.

I think the 'Gorilla' (possibly someone else) mentioned along the lines of the 46M/CSL rad nearing its capacity and just seems when used hard it starts to boil.

On DN9 I was doing multiple laps, usually in batches of 3.

With DN10 being in July and wanting to have 2 days hard lapping/multiple laps at a time, I need to get something working before this.

Worth mentioning that DN days have the main straight so cars are at WOT for 20+ secs

Tempted to look into removing AC for the trip but not really keen if it is a pain to put back in again as its a road car at the end of the day.

[rstoughy]

No issues with my temps except when running close behind an r8. Only then did they rise to the top of the scale but once past and back in clean air all was good :smokin:

[Ali M]

This was an interesting read - http://www.m3forum.net/m3forum/showthread.php?t=445368

From what I remember (not read in a while) a few guys were going to try water wetter & distilled water or similar in a bid to lower temps without removing AC.

Interesting after reading Gorilla's point on coolant mix

[_Nathan_]

Hi Steve,
He did indeed - one of the wheel-speed sensors decided it had forgotten how to communicate with the ECU, so had to be re-coded :).

???

Heard it all now, wheel speed sensors forgotten how to communicate? :119:

[Mike R]

???

Heard it all now, wheel speed sensors forgotten how to communicate? :119:

It was very bizarre. A simple reset would not turn the warning off. In the end, the only thing that would was for the ECU to relearn the sensor (or have it reassigned or what-ever you want to call it).

This was when I had allowed the battery to run low on voltage by running a tyre compressor off the cigarette lighter, without the engine running (the car started immediately afterwards and the light came on after a few miles of driving). The sensor was not disconnected at any time, but the ECU could not detect it was present until it was specifically told to "look" for it.

[stevenEK9]

what are peoples opinions/thoughts about removing the viscous fan and replacing with a slim electric puller?

removing the AC isn't an option for me, as much as this offers a first pass of clean air into the radiator

BUT

way i see it is the viscous fan doesn't exactly offer a clean path for the air to exit once it has passed through the radiator


even my 21 year old Audi S2 runs an electric fan and can regulate temps ok :hahaha:


slim fan can be controlled by something like this

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/fan-controllers-thermostats/revotec-electronic-fan-controller

leaving the OEM aux fan there as a backup if the slim fan was to fail

[Mike R]

what are peoples opinions/thoughts about removing the viscous fan and replacing with a slim electric puller?

removing the AC isn't an option for me, as much as this offers a first pass of clean air into the radiator

BUT

way i see it is the viscous fan doesn't exactly offer a clean path for the air to exit once it has passed through the radiator


even my 21 year old Audi S2 runs an electric fan and can regulate temps ok :hahaha:


slim fan can be controlled by something like this

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/fan-controllers-thermostats/revotec-electronic-fan-controller

leaving the OEM aux fan there as a backup if the slim fan was to fail

I was lead to believe from the American forums that the OE ECU can control the SPAL fans - you just need to wire them up to the factory controller?

I was also thinking about the cooling issues on my car (or lack of them) and wondered if perhaps the Vorsteiner front spoiler helped direct some more air into the radiator mouth on the bumper, where the OE set up does not? Just a thought....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/MikeR/CSL%20stuff/1c3830ad28f1f10947bced4bcad7b9d3_zps8e36e89b.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/MikeR/media/CSL%20stuff/1c3830ad28f1f10947bced4bcad7b9d3_zps8e36e89b.jpg.h tml)

[shimmy]

what are peoples opinions/thoughts about removing the viscous fan and replacing with a slim electric puller?

removing the AC isn't an option for me, as much as this offers a first pass of clean air into the radiator

BUT

way i see it is the viscous fan doesn't exactly offer a clean path for the air to exit once it has passed through the radiator


even my 21 year old Audi S2 runs an electric fan and can regulate temps ok :hahaha:


slim fan can be controlled by something like this

http://www.demon-tweeks.co.uk/motorsport/fan-controllers-thermostats/revotec-electronic-fan-controller

leaving the OEM aux fan there as a backup if the slim fan was to fail


read this first

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11135&highlight=viscous

[AlexGTT]

Mine never got too hot at the Ring. Only shorter tracks.

[shimmy]

...................... wondered if perhaps the Vorsteiner front spoiler helped direct some more air into the radiator mouth on the bumper, where the OE set up does not? Just a thought....




fuck me Mike, some big price to pay for having a better cooled car :thumbs:

[Mike R]

fuck me Mike, some big price to pay for having a better cooled car :thumbs:

Nowt as queer as folk ;).

[stevenEK9]

read this first

http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=11135&highlight=viscous


cheers for the link - had a scan through

in that case, if you have the electric aux fan, is there any need to run the viscous?!

[shimmy]

cheers for the link - had a scan through

in that case, if you have the electric aux fan, is there any need to run the viscous?!

The US guys I have spoken to have deleted the two OeM fans (to get better flow trhough)and replaced by a high flow Spal. Cooling problems sorted on hot days on track but occassionally get overheating at slow/stationary speeds on hot days :banghead:

[stevenEK9]

The US guys I have spoken to have deleted the two OeM fans (to get better flow trhough)and replaced by a high flow Spal. Cooling problems sorted on hot days on track but occassionally get overheating at slow/stationary speeds on hot days :banghead:

hard to find the optimum compromise i guess :(

i think that all fans in place and a better radiator could do the trick - got some feedback from turner motorsport on the email and they have had great feedback from customers running the fluidyne radiator

HOWEVER

i did read a thread online about someone who upgraded the Auxiliary fan to a SPAL fan that had a higher CFM rating - ran that combined with no viscous fan and a motorsport thermostat. seemed to do the trick

[Ali M]

The US guys I have spoken to have deleted the two OeM fans (to get better flow trhough)and replaced by a high flow Spal. Cooling problems sorted on hot days on track but occassionally get overheating at slow/stationary speeds on hot days :banghead:

hard to find the optimum compromise i guess :(

i did read a thread online about someone who upgraded the Auxiliary fan to a SPAL fan that had a higher CFM rating - ran that combined with no viscous fan and a motorsport thermostat. seemed to do the trick


Reading both your replies there got me thinking. I am not very technical with these things so excuse me if I have some of fan types etc mixed up, just thinking out loud...

With both examples, both viscous (engine driven 'puller' fan behind radiator) and aux fans ('pusher' fan through AC condenser/rad) have been removed. This would increase the frontal area of AC condenser/rad that is exposed to direct airflow, as to me it looks like a large part of this is blocked with OEM aux fan plastic end 'casing'. Guess it is the same story for the plastic on outside of viscous fan 'frame'?

From both examples above it looks like this has helped airflow at speed.

In Shimmy's example, if this was a 'puller' fan, Spal or similar - possibly it struggles to drag enough air through at slow speeds for low speed cooling on hot days?

In Steven's example (which sounds like it could possibly have been a success), could replacing OEM aux fan with a large capacity pusher fan in front of AC be the answer?

This combined with Gorilla's point re coolant % mix and/or 'water wetter' - do you think it could allow retaining of AC? I am not really keen to change out rad to aftermarket unless it uses all the original mounts as don't want to be butchering the car fabbing up additional mountings. Not really buying the motorsport stat idea as once it is open, it should allow the same volume of coolant to flow.

???


Just to add, whether some peoples cars have had overheating issues on 'this day' at 'that track' or done X amount of laps etc, seems to me that it is pretty clear the S54 + AC setup is not enough to cope with track use in certain conditions with some driving styles/pace. All the others must be close (as shown by Paul's example with being behind the R8, briefly blocked from airflow) to the limits. Only exceptions seem to be CSL's with no AC.

[Ali M]

Took some pics of my car at lunch...

No restriction to lower part of rad...



http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3141_zps4824ea98.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3141_zps4824ea98.jpg.html)



Through grille...



http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3136_zps6dfb41dd.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3136_zps6dfb41dd.jpg.html)



If aux fan is removed, the plastic fan housing 'bits' go - so would increase surface area airflow?



http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3143_zps7b30155d.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3143_zps7b30155d.jpg.html)


http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3144_zps44297d5f.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3144_zps44297d5f.jpg.html)




Same for lower part of aux fan frame?


http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3152_zps5a835110.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3152_zps5a835110.jpg.html)


http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3151_zps0242261e.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3151_zps0242261e.jpg.html)



I don't know what the black 'tube' part and the upper silver 'tube' bit sandwiched inbetween the aux fan AC rad are exactly - presumably to do with the AC - so both would stay?

http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3146_zps92b28cee.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3146_zps92b28cee.jpg.html)



Even if both OEM fans are removed, guessing the plastic exit 'shrouds' would stay to drag air out from the back of engine radiator and stop it spilling to the sides of engine bay


http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3150_zps4a466aae.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3150_zps4a466aae.jpg.html)


http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq341/Ali_M24/IMG_3149_zps931dfb86.jpg (http://s462.photobucket.com/user/Ali_M24/media/IMG_3149_zps931dfb86.jpg.html)



Probably a few thick questions but probably easier to get thoughts going with some photos.



Also, looking at the pics, first improvement could be had with cleaning out the fins on front AC rad... :smt108

[stevenEK9]

digging up this thread again.......



so finally got everything together to what I hopefully think will solve the elevated water temps mentioned in this thread and other areas of the forum

looking through the front end of the car, the Auxiliary fan blocks SO much of the clean air in. then once up to X mph the viscous fan doesn't really do much apart from disturb the air which is trying to escape behind the radiator

also the radiator itself is nowt special

so

had a new radiator sitting about for a while, it's a full aluminium (oem has plastic end tanks) Fluidyne / Turner Motorsport job. 25% higher capacity as well as being a triple core vs the oem double core

now fan wise i've decided to ditch the 2 oem fans completely, but retain the Auxiliary fan module and use it to power a Mishimoto 16" slimline puller fan which i will mount on a custom full alu shroud on the back of the radiator. fan is rated at 1850cfm so should be more than adequate to keep temps stable in traffic etc. best part - fan comes with a lifetime warranty and cost a mere £63 delivered :beer:

samco hoses and an oem thermostat will go in same time

fan arrived today so mocked it up, perfect size wise

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/hawyziee13/7247F20A-1A81-44FE-9B81-C6084CA63F69-541-0000009A7C0A9B2D_zpsa73e7406.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hawyziee13/media/7247F20A-1A81-44FE-9B81-C6084CA63F69-541-0000009A7C0A9B2D_zpsa73e7406.jpg.html)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v212/hawyziee13/8765ED45-6E05-4B8E-BFA2-B3DF96AFA77D-541-0000009A816AE218_zps9caa17a5.jpg (http://smg.photobucket.com/user/hawyziee13/media/8765ED45-6E05-4B8E-BFA2-B3DF96AFA77D-541-0000009A816AE218_zps9caa17a5.jpg.html)

will fit it all up in a couple weeks time and give some feedback once it's had some use!!!! over to the ring for DN10 in July which will be the real test :whistle:

[Brandtner]

Nice. Looking forward to feedback.

[pinkpanther008]

Gorilla,

Do you run products such as Waterwetter supercoolant or Evans Power Cool 180° (Waterless Engine Coolant) in your 30%af/70w% mix?

Do these assist in alleviating some of the temp spikes being discussed?

PP.


Hi,

Quote, ''Gorilla could exhaust gas temps cause a problem at WOT?''

For sure, as Mr Lawsy says you do not want
it, but if I am correct I think Shimmy was/is
running std Map etc.

As a side note on the E30 M3 with S54 CSL
engine I used an 3 core water rad with approx
35% more surface area than the std version.

But I also ran 2 x Heat exchangers and it was
dry sumped so the oil lines helped to dissapte oil
heat, but getting that engine over 100 deg
oil temp even with 28c plus ambient air was virtually
impossible, and water was always around 80/85 ish.
no matter what your driving style was.
[coolant was approx 30% Anti freeze 70% water]

Regards,

The Gorilla.