CSL Futures Market...

[Yanto]

Thought this would be interesting to gauge an intended futures market for the car now there are only c.280 floating around in UK (Non sorn). When (if?) do you intend on selling? Folks talk about selling to realise $$ or trading up to GT3 / RS....or keeping and buying a complimentary car.........what does the futures market look like in 2014 and beyond ?

1. Yanto - will buy new wheels next year. Something more of a GT car (C63, Granturismo, Pork Turbo or C2S, GTR).CSL stays.

[Trawler]

Thought this would be interesting to gauge an intended futures market for the car now there are only c.280 floating around in UK (Non sorn). When (if?) do you intend on selling? Folks talk about selling to realise $$ or trading up to GT3 / RS....or keeping and buying a complimentary car.........what does the futures market look like in 2014 and beyond ?

1. Yanto - will buy new wheels next year. Something more of a GT car (C63, Granturismo, Pork Turbo or C2S, GTR).CSL stays.
2. Trawler. csl is a keeper, even after 7+ years. No plans to buy another car. Wife's mini JCW is also fun.

[shane@mbtech]

You wanna buy my Gtr Ian

It's a gooodun :supz:

[s1csl]

I think the killer for a M3 CSL will be getting spare parts from BMW and when BMW end the warranty ,this will affect resale value, just my thoughts

[AlexGTT]

I think the killer for a M3 CSL will be getting spare parts from BMW and when BMW end the warranty ,this will affect resale value, just my thoughts

That won't make a difference. Going on that the entire classic and vintage car market wouldn't exist. If anything those circumstances raise values.

[s1csl]

That won't make a difference. Going on that the entire classic and vintage car market wouldn't exist. If anything those circumstances raise values.
No good having a 30k car if its going sit in BMW waiting for parts for a year or more , that would piss me off

[AlexGTT]

No good having a 30k car if its going sit in BMW waiting for parts for a year or more , that would piss me off

Agreed but that still won't hurt values as a trend.

[Yanto]

Agreed but that still won't hurt values as a trend.

+1

Can't imagine Ferrari have a store of replacement engines for the 250 GTO :)

[sjb]

I have to be honest and say although I am still in love with my CSL and constantly in awe of its coolness I was about to seriously consider changing to a gt3 as I'm about to get paid for a large refurbishment I've been doing. Then we go and find out we are expecting our first born ! That's stopped that little plan then, added to the fact I am about to start extending and modernising our pad I may have to consider realising a few grand out of the car and changing to a 'normal' E30 M3.
I must admit I was expecting our cars to be suddenly worth £50k after the 10 year party :banghead::hahaha:

[s1csl]

The trend is they go up and down , and not all sell for asking price

[s1csl]

+1

Can't imagine Ferrari have a store of replacement engines for the 250 GTO :)
And BMW don't have a store full of CSL parts

[Yanto]

And BMW don't have a store full of CSL parts

That's the point I'm making John !!

[s1csl]

That's the point I'm making John !!
And a good point , do you think that 1 day a CSL will be worth more in parts than a whole car

[cslsuperfan]

Thought this would be interesting to gauge an intended futures market for the car now there are only c.280 floating around in UK (Non sorn). When (if?) do you intend on selling? Folks talk about selling to realise $$ or trading up to GT3 / RS....or keeping and buying a complimentary car.........what does the futures market look like in 2014 and beyond ?

1. Yanto - will buy new wheels next year. Something more of a GT car (C63, Granturismo, Pork Turbo or C2S, GTR).CSL stays.


Maserati granturismo is awesome, although the 997 rs is next on my list. The instant divorce I would find myself in would certainly release the capital I need:whistle:

[LeinsCSL]

The CSL and Alpina E30 are going nowhere in 2014. May swap the E34 M5 for something though, but the list of possible replacements is still running to over 4 pages!

Daily driving needs are being taken care for the foreseeable future by a Golf 1.2 TSi, with the inherent performance thrills a nice bonus ;)

My expectation is another jump in CSL values come the spring. But will 996 GT2s finally start increasing in value too?

[glendog74]

I own and drive what makes me happy.

The 'potential value' of my CSL or any future issues with parts availability doesn't really have any bearing on my continued ownership decisions as I will always have other cars in my life.

I own a CSL because its awesome - simples! :thumbs:

[Bounce]

And a good point , do you think that 1 day a CSL will be worth more in parts than a whole carIts not far off now,ask Lawsy.;)

[Yanto]

Didn't mean for this to be a how much will they be worth thread. More how active the market will be - who is keeping and who selling. Just curious as the number for sale seems to have reduced significantly this year.

[billyboysm3]

Mines a keeper, then new car for the misses then track slag!

[Bounce]

Didn't mean for this to be a how much will they be worth thread. More how active the market will be - who is keeping and who selling. Just curious as the number for sale seems to have reduced significantly this year.Keeping Ian.:thumbs:

[Neil M]

The daily might change, but the weekend warrior is here to stay!:thumbs:

[Jon8710]

mines not going anywhere !

[shimmy]

mines not going anywhere !

Neither Is Billy's :smokin:

[AlexGTT]

I would only sell mine if there was a need for the money. Otherwise I'm keeping it. The only value bearing for me is that it isn't loosing rapidly. Just about anything else I'd buy would be.

Long term, it's like any other low volume car that has a desirable reputation. It's not going to exactly rocket in value but it will increase. I have cars as investments and the CSL is not one of them.

[shimmy]

Have you taken a look at Angus's old rust bucket?

[AlexGTT]

Have you taken a look at Angus's old rust bucket?

I know it and it is a rust bucket. Speaking to his stepdad about helping out.

[shimmy]

I know it and it is a rust bucket. Speaking to his stepdad about helping out.

I saw it the weekend before he died and it had huge holes in it.:119:

[phoenixcsl]

Had mine 3 years and 1 week, and I really wouldn't consider selling up unless I physically had to.

Still a great car with so much soul, love my cecil :thumbs:

[Rick H]

Barring financial implosion or physical destruction, RK04 will be mine for its next 75,000 miles. If it holds off on depreciation it's a bonus - and anyway, I'd hate to have nothing to worry about :)

Think about the current owner, not the next.

[AlexGTT]

I saw it the weekend before he died and it had huge holes in it.:119:

Yep, it's in a sorry state and absolutely chock full of body filler and allsorts! Probably still worth more than his M3 though.

[rstoughy]

Planning on keeping mine, in fact if my contract hadn't finished a few months ago I'd have a 2nd one by now but had to be sensible (for a bit) :whistle:

[billyboysm3]

Neither Is Billy's :smokin:

:wanker:

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Neither Is Billy's :smokin:

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[titan]

As always, the reasons for keeping/selling are personal to the individual.

Since you asked, the reason I'm selling my CSL is pretty simple. I just don't use it.

I've had a few track/toy cars over the years and I ended up with a CSL and GT2RS. I started a new company, have had zero time to do trackdays so both cars have ended up SORN and garaged.

I appreciate that most of you love your CSLs so take this next comment with a pinch of salt - its not the sort of car I could take out at the weekend and get enjoyment from. yes its very capable etc etc but in reality, going for a "weekend blast" its very little different from most other hothatch/M3/etc. It has little to no appeal for me in that department.

So I'm selling the CSL to free up the garage for an Atom. I don't think anyone will disagree that taking out an atom for a "weekend blast" is anything like the norm, so there's the difference.

When I want to do a saloon car trackday, or go to the 'ring, there's the porker for that.

[Bounce]

Neither Is Billy's :smokin::-D

[Pip1968]

Every so often I think about getting rid of her but things against are as follows:-

1. I want to replace her with a 997 GT3 RS and that means another £40,000 on top and will sit for the most part in the garage.
2. Additional money could be better spent on a garage rebuild (always a little bigger).
3. I may miss her even though I have never really fallen in love with what I deem to be basically an 'automatic' car.
4. I am still at ~39,000 or so miles so warranty is still cheap but then I have never really claimed (just two springs in five years ie £3,000).
5. I already have a 996 GT3 so would the step up being tangible if I had a 997 GT3 RS too.... MkII maybe (3.8 c/w centre locks).
6. I have loads of spare wheels and bits and bobs to get rid of so a bit of an effort.
7. All my cars (Mini GP as a run about) are bought and paid for so not a terrible financial strain and I go by the premise that you only ever lose on a car when you sell (no sale=no loss!).
8. If I sell and regret I do not really want to search high and low for another.

So in short mine is a keeper but if I come across a spare £40,000 I may get rid and get the GT3 RS.

Pip

[Steve B]

Some of you have some very very nice other cars.... My car owes me the equivalent to an entire years wages... :bigcry::bigcry::bigcry:


Steve

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Every so often I think about getting rid of her but things against are as follows:-

1. I want to replace her with a 997 GT3 RS and that means another £40,000 on top and will sit for the most part in the garage.
2. Additional money could be better spent on a garage rebuild (always a little bigger).
3. I may miss her even though I have never really fallen in love with what I deem to be basically an 'automatic' car.
4. I am still at ~39,000 or so miles so warranty is still cheap but then I have never really claimed (just two springs in five years ie £3,000).
5. I already have a 996 GT3 so would the step up being tangible if I had a 997 GT3 RS too.... MkII maybe (3.8 c/w centre locks).
6. I have loads of spare wheels and bits and bobs to get rid of so a bit of an effort.
7. All my cars (Mini GP as a run about) are bought and paid for so not a terrible financial strain and I go by the premise that you only ever lose on a car when you sell (no sale=no loss!).
8. If I sell and regret I do not really want to search high and low for another.

So in short mine is a keeper but if I come across a spare £40,000 I may get rid and get the GT3 RS.

Pip

+1 would only get rid to get 997 GT3 RS :-D

[northernjim]

I have cars as investments and the CSL is not one of them.




The Renault 5...... :blalalala:

[shimmy]

The Renault 5...... :blalalala:

best investment you can buy is an 'L'

[3wheels3]

After 8 years mine will probably be going but CSL is such a perfect car it'll be with regret no doubt :(

[titan]

Every so often I think about getting rid of her but things against are as follows:-

1. I want to replace her with a 997 GT3 RS and that means another £40,000 on top and will sit for the most part in the garage.
2. Additional money could be better spent on a garage rebuild (always a little bigger).
3. I may miss her even though I have never really fallen in love with what I deem to be basically an 'automatic' car.
4. I am still at ~39,000 or so miles so warranty is still cheap but then I have never really claimed (just two springs in five years ie £3,000).
5. I already have a 996 GT3 so would the step up being tangible if I had a 997 GT3 RS too.... MkII maybe (3.8 c/w centre locks).
6. I have loads of spare wheels and bits and bobs to get rid of so a bit of an effort.
7. All my cars (Mini GP as a run about) are bought and paid for so not a terrible financial strain and I go by the premise that you only ever lose on a car when you sell (no sale=no loss!).
8. If I sell and regret I do not really want to search high and low for another.

So in short mine is a keeper but if I come across a spare £40,000 I may get rid and get the GT3 RS.

Pip

In recent times I've come to question taking "cars of value" on the track. By value, I mean something that has nice bodywork, show-and-shine etc. CSL, GT3 RS you name it. Taking them on track just ruins them slowly. Even a minor spin into gravel can hurt the paintwork and a wheel finish.

A 997 GT3 RS is not much quicker around a typical UK track if we're being honest. Somewhere I've got a vbox trace comparing the CSL to the GT2RS. Only real difference is in the straight, otherwise you're talking about seconds here and there which lets face it, is not what trackdays are about.

The best fun my brother and I had on track was with the cheapest cars that you didn't care too much about.

So, that's all track related stuff. Are you going to drive your GT3 RS on the roads ? Probably not (much). So as you say, they become depreciating garage queens that have the potential to hurt your wallet on track.

Oh and FWIW there are plenty who prefer the 996 over the 997.

The other thing - CSLs are now 10 years old. How long will it be before their performance edge is completely obsoleted, or the parts become unobtainable etc.......

[shimmy]

Your not the most sympathetic driver I've met :)

[Bounce]

Your not the most sympathetic driver I've met :)That would be me then.:hahaha:

[s.mac]

I think about selling all the time but I would only blow the cash... It's in storage on sorn, if it was losing money then I would sell but for now I'm happy to hold on to it :)

[Yanto]

I think about selling all the time but I would only blow the cash... It's in storage on sorn, if it was losing money then I would sell but for now I'm happy to hold on to it :)

Depends what you blow it on Stevie.

You could spunk it on booze,drugs and hookers.....

Or waste it :)

[shimmy]

Depends what you blow it on Stevie.

You could spunk it on booze,drugs and hookers.....

Or waste it :)

He'd probably blow it on a dozen fancy dress outfits :)

[s.mac]

My wardrobe is full ;)

I have been offered the chance to look at this, I think it could be a good buy

[cps]

After 8 years mine will probably be going but CSL is such a perfect car it'll be with regret no doubt :(

I guess I haven't had my CSL long, but I have had my m3 e46 for 6 years and I love the way it looks, I haven't seen that in this thread, I need to sell the old one as I can't afford having 2, but I still have not got round to it.. crazy huh..:wink:

on getting parts I have 2 hopes.. 3d printing and BMW classic parts. I know the printing sounds mad, but I think one day soon you'll be able to order parts printed for what you need and improved..

http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/2013-02/28/3d-printed-car

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/science-environment-24528306

printing parts that can stand fusion.. maybe a subframe that won't break..

https://shop.bmw-classic.com/is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/Classic-ClassicDE-Site/en_EU/-/EUR/ViewStandardCatalog-Browse?CatalogID=Shop&CategoryName=SEARCH_AUTOMOBILE

[Equinox]

My wardrobe is full ;)

I have been offered the chance to look at this, I think it could be a good buy

You could do a lot worse than a v8 chimaera. Amazing sound, good rover v8 thatll pull a house down.

[GregorJP]

In recent times I've come to question taking "cars of value" on the track. By value, I mean something that has nice bodywork, show-and-shine etc. CSL, GT3 RS you name it. Taking them on track just ruins them slowly. Even a minor spin into gravel can hurt the paintwork and a wheel finish.


The other thing - CSLs are now 10 years old. How long will it be before their performance edge is completely obsoleted, or the parts become unobtainable etc.......

Here's the reason why my CSL might have to go, I think. I took it on track a few times, and whilst there was no question that it was 100% awesome, I was also continually mindful of the wear and tear that would need to be resolved to restore her back to pristine, how she should be. I know some on here have caged theirs, run KWs, etc, but I still feel that's a little compromised for an out and out track car.

Best thing I ever did was went halves with my mate on Rodney, the E36. £6k each and we have a caged, stripped, car with proper safety features. Rodney gets more abuse in a day than the CSL ever got.

Then bought the GTR for the road, and whilst there's no question that the CSL has more character, etc, GTR is just a better road car. Quieter, more civilised, more modern stuff (sat nav, iPod, easy auto). And it burns off Lambos.

But...

As s.mac says, could leave the CSL in storage and never lose money. And it's the only car I've owned that I've really loved.

(as for 997s, you couldn't give me another one..)

[Pip1968]

A 997 GT3 RS is not much quicker around a typical UK track if we're being honest. Somewhere I've got a vbox trace comparing the CSL to the GT2RS. Only real difference is in the straight, otherwise you're talking about seconds here and there which lets face it, is not what trackdays are about.

The best fun my brother and I had on track was with the cheapest cars that you didn't care too much about.

So, that's all track related stuff. Are you going to drive your GT3 RS on the roads ? Probably not (much). So as you say, they become depreciating garage queens that have the potential to hurt your wallet on track.

Oh and FWIW there are plenty who prefer the 996 over the 997.


Yes, it is always a bit of a worry taking an expensive car on track particularly when I have not been to any UK tracks and the Nordschleife is my draw. However "better to live one day as a lion ......."

I know what you mean about people preferring the 996. It is part of the reason I want to keep it. Still analogue with no aids so something I may miss if I do what my wife keeps saying ie sell both and buy a 997 GT3 RS. Let's face it no women are sympathetic to your spending on cars. They just do not understand. I have even used the excuse that I could be having an affair instead :hahaha: (with a human as opposed to a machine).

Pip

[_Nathan_]

You could do a lot worse than a v8 chimaera. Amazing sound, good rover v8 thatll pull a house down.

Could do better, mine was shit.

[s.mac]

This TVR hasn't been started for 10 years, I thought if it's cheap enough it's worth a punt. Are they all the same spec?

Nathan did you get that smartycam back? Still interested, will you have a stand at auto sport? Sorry to go off topic :(

[Mike R]

I would just like to say that this thread appears to be full of homos :gayfight: :hahaha:.

I could understand if it was your only car, but the majority of people own one as a second or third car, so just fucking use them as they were intended and worry about repairing / refurbishing anything as and when it requires it - otherwise you might as well not have the car (which seems to be the conclusion that some of you are already reaching :clown: ) :blalalala:.

Within two weeks of owning my car, I had an enthusiastic "play", pushing an RS5 to speeds I'd rather not mention, which resulted in the front bumper becoming pebble-dashed (changing it from the absolutely mint / unmarked item that it was). But guess what? It can be repainted as and when required (hasn't been yet, as it is still getting (ab)used) :hahaha:.

Don't get me wrong, I cherish my cars and they get whatever is required, but if I don't use them properly, I might as well have got a scale model and just sat and stared at it in a case in the living room (which would be more enjoyable than some of you locking them away and not even having the enjoyment of seeing them) :blalalala:.

[0836whimper]

I think I’d need to spend possibly three times as much to get anything else that feels as much of an event to drive on normal roads, is not too shouty, can go out in all weathers and can still fit a bike/tents/passengers in it.
The fact it is appreciating more than most current savings rates is a bonus.
And it's fun owning a car that occasionally gets noticed by someone who knows what it is, but ignored by the masses.

Availability of parts is a concern as I want to be able to drive it. But I think most parts will be available even if there's a wait.

[AlexGTT]

The Renault 5...... :blalalala:

Damn right Jimbo. :thumbs: It's where the big bucks are. :clown:

[Bounce]

Damn right Jimbo. :thumbs: It's where the big bucks are. :clown:Look after it Alex.:-D