Michelin Cups on damp/wet Nordschleife

[Porker]

Hi all,

I've recently switched from Michelin Supersports to Cups on my CSL. While it's been an enormous improvement on a dry Nordschleife, I'm somewhat hesitant towards its wet weather performance.

I'm heading to the Nordschleife coming weekend and rain is forecast all week-end. Previously I wasn't too bothered as the Supersport is a great wet weather tyre. How does a Cup tyre cope in these conditions?

I've been led to believe they cope pretty well in damp conditions, just standing water is to be avoided?

Experiences are most welcome!

[alexk]

Just be brave :whistle:

[Mike R]

Not wanting to risk it, I just took my Supersports with me - fortunately I never needed to use them :).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/MikeR/CSL%20stuff/4eb60376faca6128d3748d3821554008_zpsdcde1895.jpg

[mattCSLnut]

Hi all,

I've recently switched from Michelin Supersports to Cups on my CSL. While it's been an enormous improvement on a dry Nordschleife, I'm somewhat hesitant towards its wet weather performance.

I'm heading to the Nordschleife coming weekend and rain is forecast all week-end. Previously I wasn't too bothered as the Supersport is a great wet weather tyre. How does a Cup tyre cope in these conditions?

I've been led to believe they cope pretty well in damp conditions, just standing water is to be avoided?

Experiences are most welcome!

If your Mich. CUPs are nice & fresh they will have quite surprising levels of grip as I've experienced on the recent 2000 mile + Epic :supz: 10th Anniversary CSL Munich trip via the Ring during which Full Phat CUPs were my only tyre option :smokin: for the entire trip.
We had mixed weather throughout the whole trip, including @ the Ring ( surprise, surprise ;) ) and my Brand spanking New rear Cups & 30% worn fronts CUPs on OEM 19" wheels gripped with vigour :smokin:
Just don't push your luck @ the Green Hell too far and drive appropriately to the weather conditions.
As said before "be brave" :whistle: and enjoy :beer: Mich CUPs are the Ultimate CSL tyre choice.

[philo]

Not wanting to risk it, I just took my Supersports with me - fortunately I never needed to use them :).
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/0703/MikeR/CSL%20stuff/4eb60376faca6128d3748d3821554008_zpsdcde1895.jpg

Love the tyre/wheel covers ,where did you get them?

[Mike R]

Love the tyre/wheel covers ,where did you get them?

They're genuine Michelin ones (I know, I'm a tart :blalalala: ):
I got them from here:
http://aakmotorsports.com/michelin-wheel-felts-and-tire-cover-combo.aspx

Speak to Allan - very amiable guy and excellent to deal with :).

[Porker]

If your Mich. CUPs are nice & fresh they will have quite surprising levels of grip as I've experienced on the recent 2000 mile + Epic :supz: 10th Anniversary CSL Munich trip via the Ring during which Full Phat CUPs were my only tyre option :smokin: for the entire trip.
We had mixed weather throughout the whole trip, including @ the Ring ( surprise, surprise ;) ) and my Brand spanking New rear Cups & 30% worn fronts CUPs on OEM 19" wheels gripped with vigour :smokin:
Just don't push your luck @ the Green Hell too far and drive appropriately to the weather conditions.
As said before "be brave" :whistle: and enjoy :beer: Mich CUPs are the Ultimate CSL tyre choice.

They've been fitted in July, have about 12 Nordschleife laps behind them + a round trip to Goodwood.

Reasonable fresh, but should check thread depth.

Thanks for the advice!

[mattCSLnut]

They've been fitted in July, have about 12 Nordschleife laps behind them + a round trip to Goodwood.

Reasonable fresh, but should check thread depth.

Thanks for the advice!
Not forgetting to check your Cecils GEO & the correct " On track Off track " tyre pressures :thumbs:http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-cup#tab-tyres-benefits
... half way down the page scroll across to (CONDITIONS OF USE) for Michelin recommended CUP tyre pressures.

[CraigMillwardCroft]

They're genuine Michelin ones (I know, I'm a tart :blalalala: ):
I got them from here:
http://aakmotorsports.com/michelin-wheel-felts-and-tire-cover-combo.aspx

Speak to Allan - very amiable guy and excellent to deal with :).

They do look nice but I got some that were enclosed so all the crap stays in the bag and not on the seat :whistle:

[Mike R]

They do look nice but I got some that were enclosed so all the crap stays in the bag and not on the seat :whistle:

As you can see the wheels were clean as a whistle before going in and would be washed again before being put back in the bags :whistle:.

I even washed the tyres ;).

[Pip1968]

As per Mike R, I always take the Michelin Cups in tyre bags strapped down in the back and drive over with the Michelin PS2s. You could even get some copy CSL wheels for the second set if you want to keep costs down.

Pip

[Porker]

Not forgetting to check your Cecils GEO & the correct " On track Off track " tyre pressures :thumbs:http://www.michelin.co.uk/tyres/michelin-pilot-sport-cup#tab-tyres-benefits
... half way down the page scroll across to (CONDITIONS OF USE) for Michelin recommended CUP tyre pressures.

I always drive at 2.4 bar on the road and 2.3 hot on track.

I'm off now, hope for the best!

[CraigMillwardCroft]

As you can see the wheels were clean as a whistle before going in and would be washed again before being put back in the bags :whistle:.

I even washed the tyres ;).

What even before you leave the track :wink:

[Mike R]

What even before you leave the track :wink:

Whatever tyres I ended up using, I would drive home on :blalalala:

[shane@mbtech]

Whatever tyres I ended up using, I would drive home on :blalalala:

But you will have already driven on the other set if you have changed them. :wink:

[CraigMillwardCroft]

But you will have already driven on the other set if you have changed them. :wink:
+1 :blalalala:

[shimmy]

Obviously never done the Ring so my experience is other track based. I'd say that Cups are just as grippy as any other road tyres, unless there is real standing water.

The problem with Ups stat as soon as people see water or rain, they slow down and take it easy and then you tend to find it hard to get the Cups up to operating temps and the rain then keeps poling them. If you are man enough to get heat in them by still driving at 98% then they wil be fine.

The best example probably is back at Sillystone last year when the CSL boys encountered rain and my heavy worn Cups were equally as grippy as anybody's tyres.

[Mike R]

But you will have already driven on the other set if you have changed them. :wink:

I look at the weather forecast the day before and fit the tyres that are likely to be required and take the others "just in case" - its not rocket science :blalalala:

[Mike R]

Obviously never done the Ring so my experience is other track based. I'd say that Cups are just as grippy as any other road tyres, unless there is real standing water.

The problem with Ups stat as soon as people see water or rain, they slow down and take it easy and then you tend to find it hard to get the Cups up to operating temps and the rain then keeps poling them. If you are man enough to get heat in them by still driving at 98% then they wil be fine.

The best example probably is back at Sillystone last year when the CSL boys encountered rain and my heavy worn Cups were equally as grippy as anybody's tyres.

The 'ring is just plain nasty in the rain, as the surface grip levels change randomly, with some appearing to go like sheet ice with only a small amount of rain (as it leaches the oils out of the Tarmac). Personally, I'd recommend just parking up or doing "sight-seeing" laps if it rains.

[shimmy]

The 'ring is just plain nasty in the rain, as the surface grip levels change randomly, with some appearing to go like sheet ice with only a small amount of rain (as it leaches the oils out of the Tarmac). Personally, I'd recommend just parking up or doing "sight-seeing" laps if it rains.



In that case why on earth take the Supersports?

[northernjim]

The 'ring is just plain nasty in the rain, as the surface grip levels change randomly, with some appearing to go like sheet ice with only a small amount of rain (as it leaches the oils out of the Tarmac). Personally, I'd recommend just parking up or doing "sight-seeing" laps if it rains.




The trouble is that people compare the ring to their home tracks, with their consistent surface...

The ring is worn in many places, brand new in others, but tarmac is tarmac, drive off the glassy line and be surprised:beer:


No traffic, no tyre wear, no brake wear and 1/2 the fuel used is much better than sitting in the cafe in your race suit......

[shimmy]

The trouble is that people compare the ring to their home tracks, with their consistent surface...

The ring is worn in many places, brand new in others, but tarmac is tarmac, drive off the glassy line and be surprised:beer:


No traffic, no tyre wear, no brake wear and 1/2 the fuel used is much better than sitting in the cafe in your race suit......

Still not sure what this has to do with the choice betweeen Cups and Supersports.

[northernjim]

Still not sure what this has to do with the choice betweeen Cups and Supersports.



You know me shimmy... it has feck all to do with anything :partyman:

[shimmy]

You know me shimmy... it has feck all to do with anything :partyman:

How is your purple panzer?

[northernjim]

http://operationrainfall.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/01/Girls-und-Panzer-Yuuki-001.jpg


It still has a reassuring heft to it.... Thinking about upgrading the TV to HD too :clown:

[Mike R]

In that case why on earth take the Supersports?

See Jim's post for explanation ;). However, if I've had done sufficient dry laps (like at DN9 when it started to rain with only 30mins to go), I am more than happy to call it a day, rather than risk crashing.

[shimmy]

See Jim's post for explanation ;). However, if I've had done sufficient dry laps (like at DN9 when it started to rain with only 30mins to go), I am more than happy to call it a day, rather than risk crashing.

i aee no explanation in Jims post

i think the explanantion is in my post :)

[Mike R]

i aee no explanation in Jims post

i think the explanantion is in my post :)

He's edited it out LOL

[Pip1968]

I am with Mike R. I have been plenty of times to the Nordschleife and contrary to UK tracks (not that I have done any :whistle:) there is very little room for manoeuvre. Slip up and you are into the barrier. Alright if you have deep pockets (remember no insurance on Touristfahrt) and are a very skilled driver with plenty of experience on the Nurburgring (in wet and dry) but otherwise...... achtung, achtung!

Take both, hope for good weather or take it easy on Cups in the wet.

Bon chance.....

Pip

[gav]

No traffic, no tyre wear, no brake wear and 1/2 the fuel used is much better than sitting in the cafe in your race suit......[/QUOTE]

Go out in the wet.
Whatever tyres happy on. ( ss better in wet)
Jim's point v good. Is fun to hammer round in the dry in busy traffic, but loads to enjoy and learn at slower speeds in the rain.

[Porker]

I am with Mike R. I have been plenty of times to the Nordschleife and contrary to UK tracks (not that I have done any :whistle:) there is very little room for manoeuvre. Slip up and you are into the barrier. Alright if you have deep pockets (remember no insurance on Touristfahrt) and are a very skilled driver with plenty of experience on the Nurburgring (in wet and dry) but otherwise...... achtung, achtung!

Take both, hope for good weather or take it easy on Cups in the wet.

Bon chance.....

Pip

Just got back, the morning session on Sunday was damp, Cups gripped admirably. Gradually the track dried, and by noon conditions were perfect. No bikes on track due to damp patches scaring them off.

On the way back, the autobahn was soaked though, it seems Cups don't appreciated standing water indeed!

[Pip1968]

Glad it all went smoothly. Guys on the Porsche forum recommend driving on the inside lane in wet weather when on Cups. Then just follow the HGVs who will clear some of the standing water for you.

I have managed to aquaplane en route in heavy rain whilst on Michelin PS2s. The bottom line is that the tyres are too wide to be able to clear the water without going slowly.

Pip :thumbs:

[shimmy]

Glad it all went smoothly. Guys on the Porsche forum recommend driving on the inside lane in wet weather when on Cups. Then just follow the HGVs who will clear some of the standing water for you.

I have managed to aquaplane en route in heavy rain whilst on Michelin PS2s. The bottom line is that the tyres are too wide to be able to clear the water without going slowly.

Pip :thumbs:


That's Porsche drivers for you.....


DuncanR however recommends driving one handed, on the phone, on the white lines on bald cups after 4 hours at the wheel with one very nervous passenger :(

[Pip1968]

Ha ha :hahaha:. Something a bit like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ks5skp7sWl4


Pip