One for the true CSL geeks!

[Danno_el_Mano]

Greetings all!

We've had a bit of a CSL blowout on PistonHeads the last couple of weeks but we've saved the best until last, at least for the true geeks. In safe company here though, I'm hoping.

Anyway, we've just put a story up based on Sean's chat with BMW's Hans-Bruno Starke and Peter Schmidt, both of whom worked on the original CSL project. The 'public' story is here (http://www.pistonheads.com/doc.asp?c=52&i=27915).

But you want more than that, right? Well, tucked away here's the full transcript (http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=27916) of Sean's conversation. It goes on ... and on but if you're really into the subject there's some great stuff within, a bit of myth busting and heaps of enthusiasm from both guys. 10 years ago or not, the CSL clearly holds a special place in their hearts.

Anyway, thought this would be the place to share it and I hope you enjoy the read.

Cheers,

Dan

[outnumbered]

But you want more than that, right? Well, tucked away here's the full transcript (http://www.pistonheads.com/news/default.asp?storyId=27916) of Sean's conversation. It goes on ... and on but if you're really into the subject there's some great stuff within, a bit of myth busting and heaps of enthusiasm from both guys. 10 years ago or not, the CSL clearly holds a special place in their hearts.

Anyway, thought this would be the place to share it and I hope you enjoy the read.

Cheers,

Dan

Interesting stuff. Thanks for publishing it.

[E46CSL]

Interesting stuff. Thanks for publishing it. + 1

[billyboysm3]

Nice one Dan. Ill grab a beer later and read the full transcript

[Brandtner]

Great read, thank for posting.

[streightsix]

Excellent, thank you Dan & Sean.
I agree "best until last" ...:thumbs:

[alexk]

You will call me cynical for being critical once more.

I struggle a bit with the following :
- the engineer (supposed to be the guru) does not know that the csl has different rear caliper (piston diameter is 1mm bigger) over the m3
- the engineer does not know that the csl is not only lower at the front but at the rear too
- the engineer is missing other significant weight savings like lighter battery, carpet (for LHD cars), microfilter housing, wiring harness, deletion of sound proof material etc
- the engineer does not seem to remember that the csl has thinner metal on the exhaust manifold, mid section to make the exhaust lighter. Also, that it has different cats and different exhaust
- the engineer does not seem to know that the csl has different geo settings at the rear compared to the normal m3
- the engineer does not seem to know that the caster of the CSL is the same with the normal M3 as the front top mounts and wishbones are the same between the 2 versions. Obviously the strut tower is the same on the two shells ...

Therefore, I really struggle to accept all these statements and the facts show he is far from being a CSL guru.

I do not understand why BMW is sending people to speak about a car that they do not know all the details or know things the wrong way around.

Now I doubt that they know if the CSL has extra welding points on the chassis or less undercarriage coating or thinner color.

[Mike R]

I did think the same as Alex with regard to some of the answers - they seemed a bit wishy-washy, as if they were winging it :hahaha:. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that the author seemed to know more about the CSL than they did :hahaha:.

[Neil M]

You will call me cynical for being critical once more.

I struggle a bit with the following :
- the engineer (supposed to be the guru) does not know that the csl has different rear caliper (piston diameter is 1mm bigger) over the m3
- the engineer does not know that the csl is not only lower at the front but at the rear too
- the engineer is missing other significant weight savings like lighter battery, carpet (for LHD cars), microfilter housing, wiring harness, deletion of sound proof material etc
- the engineer does not seem to remember that the csl has thinner metal on the exhaust manifold, mid section to make the exhaust lighter. Also, that it has different cats and different exhaust
- the engineer does not seem to know that the csl has different geo settings at the rear compared to the normal m3
- the engineer does not seem to know that the caster of the CSL is the same with the normal M3 as the front top mounts and wishbones are the same between the 2 versions. Obviously the strut tower is the same on the two shells ...

Therefore, I really struggle to accept all these statements and the facts show he is far from being a CSL guru.

I do not understand why BMW is sending people to speak about a car that they do not know all the details or know things the wrong way around.

Now I doubt that they know if the CSL has extra welding points on the chassis or less undercarriage coating or thinner color.

Now, now, Alex calm down you might burst something. :hahaha: Not cynical just super sensitive!
They say "A little knowledge is a dangerous thing" with the wealth of knowledge at your disposal, it becomes explosive!

You can't expect and engineer that worked on the car 10 years ago to remember everything in fine detail.
He's probably worked on a lot of other cars since, and he, as an individual wouldn't have held responsibility for everything that went into the CSL's production.:thumbs:

After all it only a Magazine article, where the adage "Spot on near enough" usually applies.
Slight misunderstandings are bound to have occurred in the translations as in the video: "Power = Mass x Acceleration" NOT! and that's coming out of BMW's own publicity department.
Another interesting read from the Guys at 'PistonHeads' and long may it continue:thumbs:

[0836whimper]

C'mon chaps.

There's mainstream geeky and there's CSL Register uber geeky where people are weighing wheel bolts and from different manufacturers and checking the thickness of paint etc.

It was never going to go that far.

These engineers moved on to other stuff many moons ago and they are probably scratching their head on the details that they don't remember.

[cslgirl]

Nice one Dan. Ill grab a beer later and read the full transcript

+1 :thumbs:

[shimmy]

Lads......who said CHIEF, he must have been about 25 then and it was about 13 years ago.

[Yanto]

Bunch of fags, the lot of you. Lighten up FFS !

Thx Dan for sharing :smokin:

[alexk]

Bunch of fags, the lot of you. Lighten up FFS !


Do you have an issue with me ?
I see you are getting irritated with my posts/opinions.

[Yanto]

Do you have an issue with me ?
I see you are getting irritated with my posts/opinions.

Takes a lot to irritate me Alex. I'm probably the most laid back guy on this board (apart from Jim :-D).

No, I don't have an issue with opinion or posts...pls don't be so sensitive.

I'm just not a fan of critical or curt posts when folks are trying to be helpful with information. Did the engineers need to I/view with PH for our benefit ? No. Did Dan need to post the above ? No.

Content is provided here for users benefit. If its not 100% accurate, is it a problem? I'd still prefer to get some information than no information. If it needs to be challenged, lets do it in a non critical way. I dunno....maybe it's a cultural thing.

I found your comment during the presentation at the M design presentation slightly unnecessary.....again, did BMW have to put that on for us ? No, it was gratis....and we should respect them for that. If we thought a small portion of the data was inaccurate, then is it appropriate to put the guy on the spot in front of 80+ people ? Again, no. (I actually didn't get the point you were trying to make.....I think you missed the previous slide).

For what it's worth, I stand by my comments on the Cossack thread (if that's what your referring to).

You're very knowledgeable on M cars. Respect for that......but don't get too anal about it all...it's really not becoming of enthusiasts who are in it for craic as well.

Keep smiling :-D

[shimmy]

What Cossack thread......I'm missing somit.

[Yanto]

What Cossack thread......I'm missing somit.

This one papa http://www.cslregister.com/forum/showthread.php?t=10569

[0836whimper]

We all add something to the mix and that's what makes it a great group. I like the paint thickness discussions as much as I like 1 or 5 beers with Leins and co :) (ok, maybe not in the morning...)

It is a very niche car forum, but we have had just had the best last couple of months ever as owners, so let's just celebrate that.

:beer:

[Yanto]

We all add something to the mix and that's what makes it a great group. I like the paint thickness discussions as much as I like 1 or 5 beers with Leins and co :) (ok, maybe not in the morning...)

It is a very niche car forum, but we have had just had the best last couple of months ever as owners, so let's just celebrate that.

:beer:

Here here Kofi:thumbs:

[NBTBRV8]

Some of the production numbers quoted were a bit rubbery from both parties :smt064 , fancy saying that there were only 422 UK production cars for example...

I like the bit about a/c in the UK :-D

[LeinsCSL]

Dan/Sean - thanks for this, and for highlighting the CSL on Pistonheads over the last month. It's a car I feel that has been very much misunderstood by a large chunk of people out there, who probably have never driven one, so information like that provided through your recent articles is invaluable in explaining how it's not just a standard M3 with a few carbon bits, but actually a car that's very different in nature


We all add something to the mix and that's what makes it a great group. I like the paint thickness discussions as much as I like 1 or 5 beers with Leins and co :) (ok, maybe not in the morning...)

It is a very niche car forum, but we have had just had the best last couple of months ever as owners, so let's just celebrate that.

:beer:

Paint thickness discussion with beer the next time ;)

[shane@mbtech]

You can take the guy out of Greece, but can't take Greece out the guy:supz:

Come on Alex, lighten up a bit bud. We all know you are enthusiastic about all things M, and I applaud you for your commitment, but please try not let the passion show as obsession.

You may not realize it, but your posts do come across as aggressive, it might be just the way it seems.


Love and peace.

:beer:

[glendog74]

You can take the guy out of Greece, but can't take Greece out the guy:supz:

Come on Alex, lighten up a bit bud. We all know you are enthusiastic about all things M, and I applaud you for your commitment, but please try not let the passion show as obsession.

You may not realize it, but your posts do come across as aggressive, it might be just the way it seems.


Love and peace.

:beer:

+1 Alex...

Just appreciate the article for what it is and that someone's taken the time to post it here just for us.

Personally I'd like to say a big thank you for a very interesting read :thumbs:

[CraigMillwardCroft]

+1 Alex...

Just appreciate the article for what it is and that someone's taken the time to post it here just for us.

Personally I'd like to say a big thank you for a very interesting read :thumbs:

+1 :thumbs:

[adem.csl]

+1 Alex...

Just appreciate the article for what it is and that someone's taken the time to post it here just for us.

Personally I'd like to say a big thank you for a very interesting read :thumbs:




+1 too :partyman:

[DaveG]

Very interesting reading,thanks for posting

[Alx]

Great article; thanks for sharing! :)

[niall1]

Very interesting reading,thanks for posting
+ 1 :notworthy: