CSL rear window glass-- NLA?

[Obioban]

Just noticed this note on RealOEM-- are CSL owners getting standard M3 glass when they order replacements now?

REAR WINDOW GREEN W. ANTENNE 1 51317895441
Important notice on standardization!
The window supplied as a replacement
part is equipped with more plugs than the
original and also differs in appearance.
Reason:
Only the top-level version is now
being supplied. Any plugs that will not
be used on the individual vehicle must
be tied back out of the way.

[NZ_M3]

No, but I am sure the legitimate CSL owners would appreciate it if you guys over the pond stop buying parts that aren't destined for non-CSLs

You guys are basically ruining it for all the CSL owners and any future possibility of keeping these genuine CSLs running in the future.

Lot of the parts are now supplied as a kit rather than as individual components - which is what that note denotes.



Perhaps time to start restricting USA access to the website : P

[alexk]

I think we should start sending some emails to BMW about this situation.

Its ridiculous that so many CSL wannabes have original CSL parts and we are exposed.
In case we have an issue/accident we might not be able to replace the parts with CSL parts because some people got them to CSLize their simple M3s.

[Obioban]

No, but I am sure the legitimate CSL owners would appreciate it if you guys over the pond stop buying parts that aren't destined for non-CSLs

You guys are basically ruining it for all the CSL owners and any future possibility of keeping these genuine CSLs running in the future.

Lot of the parts are now supplied as a kit rather than as individual components - which is what that note denotes.



Perhaps time to start restricting USA access to the website : P

Ha, I don't think you're going to stop that flow. That said, might be better to focus your annoyance at BMW-- they could make more parts, if they decided to.

If there were factory parts available for your car that were better, I doubt you wouldn't install them ;)



I think we should start sending some emails to BMW about this situation.

Its ridiculous that so many CSL wannabes have original CSL parts and we are exposed.
In case we have an issue/accident we might not be able to replace the parts with CSL parts because some people got them to CSLize their simple M3s.

You realize every CSL is a CSLized simple M3?

I agree you should email BMW, though. Not making parts for a car that has only been out of production for 10 years is an absurd situation. I wouldn't expect to curb the flow to non CSL owners, though-- they're all already going through legitimate CSL owners. What can they do beyond that?

[chrisburns]

Just out of curiosity do you guys not need a CSL chassis number to order genuine parts ?

[Obioban]

Just out of curiosity do you guys not need a CSL chassis number to order genuine parts ?

There's websites and individuals that sell CSL parts. They go through legitimate CSL owners in other countries, where CSLs were sold. We can't order CSL parts directly from BMW.

[NZ_M3]

Ha, I don't think you're going to stop that flow. That said, might be better to focus your annoyance at BMW-- they could make more parts, if they decided to.

If there were factory parts available for your car that were better, I doubt you wouldn't install them ;)


They have with the M3 GTS and have managed to stop those parts from being installed on non GTS cars - bar a few (I know as I've been following what's been happening with it and BMW have been quite proactive about keeping those parts out of non legitimate owners - even to go as far as to actually not assign part numbers and the requirement that any replacement parts only be issued when the broken part is returned - where possible)

Put yourself in our shoes mate - if you owned a real CSL and spare parts that were made and destined for us were being pawned off to others that don't actually own a CSL how would you feel?


I have heard but have not been able to confirm that the reason BMW have started to put NLA on a lot of CSL parts is because of the very reason that parts are being sold to places that weren't suppose to get them (i.e. USA).

Did any of you guys that attended the 10th anniversary find out anything more about it?


There's websites and individuals that sell CSL parts. They go through legitimate CSL owners in other countries, where CSLs were sold. We can't order CSL parts directly from BMW.

That's bullshit ... ecstuning have been able to order CSL parts directly for a couple of years now - they don't lodge orders with CSL owners and then put a margin on it. That's now all changing however - I have had one order rejected from BMW AG once because the dealership failed to supply confirmed ownership status - it was only when this was actually supplied that the parts were released. So hopefully this is pointing to a changing of policy and the beginning of locking down CSL parts for legitimate owners.

[Obioban]

They have with the M3 GTS and have managed to stop those parts from being installed on non GTS cars - bar a few (I know as I've been following what's been happening with it and BMW have been quite proactive about keeping those parts out of non legitimate owners - even to go as far as to actually not assign part numbers and the requirement that any replacement parts only be issued when the broken part is returned - where possible)

Put yourself in our shoes mate - if you owned a real CSL and spare parts that were made and destined for us were being pawned off to others that don't actually own a CSL how would you feel?


I have heard but have not been able to confirm that the reason BMW have started to put NLA on a lot of CSL parts is because of the very reason that parts are being sold to places that weren't suppose to get them (i.e. USA).

Did any of you guys that attended the 10th anniversary find out anything more about it?




That's bullshit ... ecstuning have been able to order CSL parts directly for a couple of years now - they don't lodge orders with CSL owners and then put a margin on it. That's now all changing however - I have had one order rejected from BMW AG once because the dealership failed to supply confirmed ownership status - it was only when this was actually supplied that the parts were released. So hopefully this is pointing to a changing of policy and the beginning of locking down CSL parts for legitimate owners.

I do see how it sucks, but it's also not something that's going to stop... so campaign BMW to make more.

If it makes you feel better, I almost never end up going with OEM BMW CSL parts. The only OEM CSL parts on my car are the cabin air filter housing and, if I get it, the back window. Almost always the aftermarket version seems to be better in some way (e.g. brembos instead of OEM CSL brakes, lightweight forged 18s instead of cast CSL 19s, half the weight carbon fiber CSL trunk, Full supersprint exhaust instead of OEM BMW exhaust track, etc). But, in certain cases, there is no valid aftermarket alternative-- like the back window.

[cossack]

Wow, didn't realize there was gonna be this much hate. I see your guys point about us yanks buying up CSL parts. However we can also blame BMW for not bringing the damn car over in the first place. How do you think we feel being left out. Trust me when i say i can afford the CSL. I'd gladly own one too. I just never found an easy way to bring one over. Your CSL wouldn't exist if the regular E46 M3 didn't come out first. The CSL was a standard M3 that they added all the extra pieces to to make it unique. The reason why so many M3 owners in the states want oem csl parts is primarily due to quality of products.

[mattCSLnut]

Wow, didn't realize there was gonna be this much hate. I see your guys point about us yanks buying up CSL parts. However we can also blame BMW for not bringing the damn car over in the first place. How do you think we feel being left out. Trust me when i say i can afford the CSL. I'd gladly own one too. I just never found an easy way to bring one over. Your CSL wouldn't exist if the regular E46 M3 didn't come out first. The CSL was a standard M3 that they added all the extra pieces to to make it unique. The reason why so many M3 owners in the states want oem csl parts is primarily due to quality of products.

It's not hate dude... just good old FREEDOM of expression ;)
With all due respect the reason why you guys didn't get the E46 M3 CSL is because of your own OTT emission regulations (especially Cali. emissions) ) and the overall US obsesion with SUVs the size of small "Suburban" houses. So go and submit a complaint to your US representatives :clown: at the White House and not blame the BMW M guys in Munich. Trust me, they would have LOVEd to have sold the CSL in the US, which was BMWs biggest market in 2003.

With regards to the regular E46 M3, I don't think anybody is knocking it here... it's without a doubt a great M-car :thumbs: and good basis for the M3 CSL, however IMHO the real reason for the US M3 owners appetite for CSL parts is to recreate (as close as they can) an M3 CSL, because your own government denied it to you guys :banghead:
Kudos for being rebellious :supz:

[alexk]

You realize every CSL is a CSLized simple M3?

I agree you should email BMW, though. Not making parts for a car that has only been out of production for 10 years is an absurd situation. I wouldn't expect to curb the flow to non CSL owners, though-- they're all already going throw legitimate CSL owners. What can they do beyond that?

I am not sure I am following your logic.
The CSL had serious development and a lot of unique parts from the factory.
The production line was modified to produce CSLs, and it was not just normal M3s fitted with some extra parts.

Why the CSL was not sold in your country is not my problem, it is yours and this no excuse to take parts not intended to be fitted in your cars.
I know that I paid 3 times more to get a CSL rather than a normal M3.
I also know that I pay much higher insurance premium to insure a CSL rather than a normal M3 (due to the cost of parts).
And I know that I will be totally pissed of if I need to get replacement parts for my car and they are not available because some CSL wannabes fitted them in their simple M3s to make them look like a CSL.

And to put things in perspective, imagine every 316-330 owner putting all the M3 parts.
Then you have an issue and you need a front bumper and BMW says, sorry you can't have the M3 bumper, it's sold out (to all simple 3 series owners), we can only supply to you the bumper of the 328ci, how would you feel ?


Guys, let's draft a letter and we collect all the CSL onwers including their original VIN numbers and we send it to BMW.

This stupidity needs to stop !

[shimmy]

HATE is a very string word.


Animosity might be more accurate :blalalala:

[Obioban]

Why not instead petition them to ramp up production instead of limiting it?

[cossack]

I am not sure I am following your logic.
The CSL had serious development and a lot of unique parts from the factory.
The production line was modified to produce CSLs, and it was not just normal M3s fitted with some extra parts.

Why the CSL was not sold in your country is not my problem, it is yours and this no excuse to take parts not intended to be fitted in your cars.
I know that I paid 3 times more to get a CSL rather than a normal M3.
I also know that I pay much higher insurance premium to insure a CSL rather than a normal M3 (due to the cost of parts).
And I know that I will be totally pissed of if I need to get replacement parts for my car and they are not available because some CSL wannabes fitted them in their simple M3s to make them look like a CSL.

And to put things in perspective, imagine every 316-330 owner putting all the M3 parts.
Then you have an issue and you need a front bumper and BMW says, sorry you can't have the M3 bumper, it's sold out (to all simple 3 series owners), we can only supply to you the bumper of the 328ci, how would you feel ?


Guys, let's draft a letter and we collect all the CSL onwers including their original VIN numbers and we send it to BMW.

This stupidity needs to stop !

I've spent way more then you have or possibly will have on my car. That logic is mute. Let's see my car was 68,500 USD when i bought it new. My OEM CSL parts cost me 26,000 USD over the years. My aftermarket parts have cost me another 20,000 USD. So under your logic the only way you'd be happy with me having the parts is if I bought a wrecked M3 CSL chassis that I would be able to purchase parts from, and for or would have to fix up to drive over in the US.

[cossack]

Per another forum discussion. Would you really want me to buy a used CSL, just to strip all the parts out of her so I can drive one legally in the US. It would have actually been cheaper for me to do so. Also if anyone is looking to purchase all the CSL parts, it is now cheap enough to do so by buying a CSL and gutting one. So would you rather someone break a real CSL just for parts, even if it's not a wrecked CSL.

Best situation/outcome here is BMW ramps up production.

I am legally insured for all the oem csl parts, I am paying a premium for all my oem csl parts. I also have passed emissions with my CSL parts. BMW didn't try hard enough to bring it over.

[alexk]

I've spent way more then you have or possibly will have on my car. That logic is mute. Let's see my car was 68,500 USD when i bought it new. My OEM CSL parts cost me 26,000 USD over the years. My aftermarket parts have cost me another 20,000 USD. So under your logic the only way you'd be happy with me having the parts is if I bought a wrecked M3 CSL chassis that I would be able to purchase parts from, and for or would have to fix up to drive over in the US.

If you bought an original CSL, I wouldn't mind.
As far as money is concerned, I paid for my CSL 85k CHF (91k USD).
My car was sold brand new in Switzerland 135k CHF (145k USD).
A 4 year old M3 E46 costed 30k CHF, 1/3 of the CSL price.
Any further questions ? :banghead:

[shimmy]

I've spent way more then you have or possibly will have on my car. That logic is mute. Let's see my car was 68,500 USD when i bought it new. My OEM CSL parts cost me 26,000 USD over the years. My aftermarket parts have cost me another 20,000 USD. So under your logic the only way you'd be happy with me having the parts is if I bought a wrecked M3 CSL chassis that I would be able to purchase parts from, and for or would have to fix up to drive over in the US.

That's what it cost....now what is it worth? :119:

[alexk]

I am legally insured for all the oem csl parts, I am paying a premium for all my oem csl parts. I also have passed emissions with my CSL parts. BMW didn't try hard enough to bring it over.

So if you smash the bumper you will show up to the BMW dealership and they will order for you a CSL bumper using your VIN for example ?
I don't see how this will fly to be honest.

[cossack]

So if you smash the bumper you will show up to the BMW dealership and they will order for you a CSL bumper using your VIN for example ?
I don't see how this will fly to be honest.

Lol, i did just get into an accident two months ago my insurance covered it all. That's for me to worry about and figure out. You don't need a vin to order csl parts. If i did, i'd just buy a wrecked csl chassis that would be registered in my name keep it in a storage unit somewhere and use it as a mule. Thanks for giving me the idea, if you go the route of suggesting restricting parts. You're not gonna stop people from sourcing parts. There are three real CSL's in the States, those members tend not to share their secret on how they imported them. I've seen one in Mountain View, CA that's legitimate.

It's not my problem you over payed for the CSL. List price for UK for the CSL was 55,000 GBP. Obviously the argument here is not that i didn't want to pay, or couldn't afford to pay. The problem was bringing one over legally.

So don't be getting pissed of at enthusiasts. Campaign for BMW to make more parts. In any case i don't see how for BMW making parts is a bad thing. It equals more money for them in the long run. It's not like they are selling the parts at cost.

[cossack]

That's what it cost....now what is it worth? :119:

Worth is irrelevant, as it's not for sale. It also never will be, unless I die. I'm planning on getting an AM Vantage next. This cars staying. I know kbb value won't be high, and i don't care. The csl parts definitely though have mostly held their value, even appreciated for some. If i parted everything csl out, plus sold my car I'd be able to purchase a used CSL in Europe. But that's not gonna happen, as I enjoy my 2005 CS that's been mostly converted to a CSL. I'm also not moving outside the US anytime soon, otherwise I'd look at a real CSL.

[E46CSL]

Worth is irrelevant, as it's not for sale. It also never will be, unless I die. .

Famous last words :-D

[alexk]

We are wow-ed now, you must be extremely rich :smt002

http://www.salem-news.com/stimg/april252010/0.jpg

[mattCSLnut]

Per another forum discussion. Would you really want me to buy a used CSL, just to strip all the parts out of her so I can drive one legally in the US. It would have actually been cheaper for me to do so. Also if anyone is looking to purchase all the CSL parts, it is now cheap enough to do so by buying a CSL and gutting one. So would you rather someone break a real CSL just for parts, even if it's not a wrecked CSL.

Best situation/outcome here is BMW ramps up production.

I am legally insured for all the oem csl parts, I am paying a premium for all my oem csl parts. I also have passed emissions with my CSL parts.
BMW didn't try hard enough to bring it over.


Not true & believe U mean BMW tried very hard as they care very much for the US market place. Unfortunately your blinkered government with their OTT emission / crash test laws kept saying NO, NO, NO, No, No... errm ??? NO !?!? though shear ignorance, so many times that BMW had no choice but to concede defeat on that one and only brake even on the limited numbers of CSLs they SOLD, predominantly in continental Europe & the UK. They would have loved to make a real profit from such a car as the M3 CSL. Incidentally, you guys are also responsible for the non existence of the E46 M3 Touring because you don't understand the concept of a compact Sports Wagon and instead choose the larger then life 4X4 gas guzzling SUVs.

As for ramping up CSL specific parts productions, have U not noticed that most of these part are actually outsourced from a number of small companies, and not pulled off BMWs own, run of the mill production lines. It's a very costly process in making small volume CSL parts on a large scale as they were never meant to be. BMW are far too busy making millions of 320d which make a decent return for them. 10 year old CSL parts are very much the last thing on BMW AGs mind.

[cossack]

Not true & believe U mean BMW tried very hard as they care very much for the US market place. Unfortunately your blinkered government with their OTT emission / crash test laws kept saying NO, NO, NO, No, No... errm ??? NO !?!? though shear ignorance, so many times that BMW had no choice but to concede defeat on that one and only brake even on the limited numbers of CSLs they SOLD, predominantly in continental Europe & the UK. They would have loved to make a real profit from such a car as the M3 CSL. Incidentally, you guys are also responsible for the non existence of the E46 M3 Touring because you don't understand the concept of a compact Sports Wagon and instead choose the larger then life 4X4 gas guzzling SUVs.

As for ramping up CSL specific parts productions, have U not noticed that most of these part are actually outsourced from a number of small companies, and not pulled off BMWs own, run of the mill production lines. It's a very costly process in making small volume CSL parts on a large scale as they were never meant to be. BMW are far too busy making millions of 320d which make a decent return for them. 10 year old CSL parts are very much the last thing on BMW AGs mind.

Their half as attempt was shown with the CS package, as the M3 was on the verge of being phased out. They wanted to keep profit up, that's why the did as little as possible with the CS package. They still could have offered most of the bits, or done what they have done in the past with the bmw batmobile. I'm referring to the Wing. They gave you the part, it was up to you to install it. What they did with the CS version was a half ass effort of what the CSL got. There's no reason why other then headers, and cats that the car mostly wouldn't have been able to be imported. Maybe even the glass. They could have made it a package option for M3 owners just like they offer the cf bits now to e92 m3 owners like cf splitters and such. Having them limit production won't solve any issue. I would rather them allow those small companies that manufactured the CSL bits be allowed to sell them directly to consumers.

AlexK it's not about being rich, it's a response to a stupid comment saying that you spent three times as much. Case proven/closed.

[alexk]

AlexK it's not about being rich, it's a response to a stupid comment saying that you spent three times as much. Case proven/closed.

What exactly did you prove ?
I guess you are not familiar with exchange rates.
55k GBP back in 2003 was 78k EUR
55k GBP today is 64k EUR
That's 18% depreciation.
So are you comparing today's FX rates with the ones back in 2003 or 2007 and saying that I paid more or others paid less ?

I was very specific, I paid 3 times more compared to a normal M3.
You will find that in Europe that the CSL was sold, it is usually the case.
It is/was the case for Germany, France etc.
A CSL is/was usually three times the price of a normal M3.

Now you are talking/thinking while you are at the states and you have no clue about the situation here.
This is called speculation.

The other smart things about the cost of your upgrades and the Aston Martin are a bit ridiculous to be honest. :gayfight:

In addition to what Matt said about car education/preference over there, just observe the size of the forum signatures of your fellow BMW enthusiasts.
Who has the longest list of mods is ... the best.

I will stop here by saying that I will try my best that no CSL part will be sold to a non-CSL owner.
You have my word ;)

[Jon8710]

Their half as attempt was shown with the CS package, as the M3 was on the verge of being phased out. They wanted to keep profit up, that's why the did as little as possible with the CS package. They still could have offered most of the bits, or done what they have done in the past with the bmw batmobile. I'm referring to the Wing. They gave you the part, it was up to you to install it. What they did with the CS version was a half ass effort of what the CSL got. There's no reason why other then headers, and cats that the car mostly wouldn't have been able to be imported. Maybe even the glass. They could have made it a package option for M3 owners just like they offer the cf bits now to e92 m3 owners like cf splitters and such. Having them limit production won't solve any issue. I would rather them allow those small companies that manufactured the CSL bits be allowed to sell them directly to consumers.

AlexK it's not about being rich, it's a response to a stupid comment saying that you spent three times as much. Case proven/closed.


Maybe BMW didn't import it just because they knew it would piss You off

Chin up money bags xxxxxx

[grkm3]

Was the CSL crash tested in Europe and if so how did it fare compared to a regular M3?

[Yanto]

Guys - this ain't a helpful thread.

Finger pointing is pointless. It's a free market and if you have the cash, you can buy what you choose (assuming you meet counterparty terms and they agree to sell).

For what it's worth, I applaud Cossack for his commitment in overcoming a legislative obstacle to allow him to achieve his goal. His car looks mint and a little different to a tricked up 318 with some carbon bits. From my experience, those that mod an E46 M3 on a budget will choose look a like parts, not OEM.

BMW need to pull their finger out and begin to manufacture the parts. I think that's where we come in with the lobbying. But they need a minimum commitment on numbers.....and let's face it, we couldn't get more than 30 deposits for a fookin track day on the Euro trip due to drop outs.....so how many really REALLY care ? I for one would be happy to chuck some £K in a fund (if others were) to demonstrate seriousness.

So we can bleat on about how we should be entitled to first refusal, but that's bullshit. BMW are a business, not a charity and if they have an ability to sell parts, why wouldn't they ? We like to think that they'll "look after us" because we have one of the better examples of the "Ultimate Driving Machine", but some of us need to take off the rose tinted specs.

[Yanto]

Alternatively, they enforce the chassis number rule.

[shimmy]

Was the CSL crash tested in Europe and if so how did it fare compared to a regular M3?


Didn't happen, the m3 could catch it to crash into it :)


Guys - this ain't a helpful thread.

Finger pointing is pointless. It's a free market and if you have the cash, you can buy what you choose (assuming you meet counterparty terms and they agree to sell).

For what it's worth, I applaud Cossack for his commitment in overcoming a legislative obstacle to allow him to achieve his goal. His car looks mint and a little different to a tricked up 318 with some carbon bits. From my experience, those that mod an E46 M3 on a budget will choose look a like parts, not OEM.

BMW need to pull their finger out and begin to manufacture the parts. I think that's where we come in with the lobbying. But they need a minimum commitment on numbers.....and let's face it, we couldn't get more than 30 deposits for a fookin track day on the Euro trip due to drop outs.....so how many really REALLY care ? I for one would be happy to chuck some £K in a fund (if others were) to demonstrate seriousness.

So we can bleat on about how we should be entitled to first refusal, but that's bullshit. BMW are a business, not a charity and if they have an ability to sell parts, why wouldn't they ? We like to think that they'll "look after us" because we have one of the better examples of the "Ultimate Driving Machine", but some of us need to take off the rose tinted specs.


Ouch........mrs piss you off today :)

[glendog74]

Guys - this ain't a helpful thread.

Finger pointing is pointless. It's a free market and if you have the cash, you can buy what you choose (assuming you meet counterparty terms and they agree to sell).

For what it's worth, I applaud Cossack for his commitment in overcoming a legislative obstacle to allow him to achieve his goal. His car looks mint and a little different to a tricked up 318 with some carbon bits. From my experience, those that mod an E46 M3 on a budget will choose look a like parts, not OEM.

BMW need to pull their finger out and begin to manufacture the parts. I think that's where we come in with the lobbying. But they need a minimum commitment on numbers.....and let's face it, we couldn't get more than 30 deposits for a fookin track day on the Euro trip due to drop outs.....so how many really REALLY care ? I for one would be happy to chuck some £K in a fund (if others were) to demonstrate seriousness.

So we can bleat on about how we should be entitled to first refusal, but that's bullshit. BMW are a business, not a charity and if they have an ability to sell parts, why wouldn't they ? We like to think that they'll "look after us" because we have one of the better examples of the "Ultimate Driving Machine", but some of us need to take off the rose tinted specs.

+1

It is a free market.

Let others enjoy their cars as they want and stop being 'CSL Elitist'...

Be nice to all forum members - CSL owners or otherwise.

[alexk]

So we can bleat on about how we should be entitled to first refusal, but that's bullshit. BMW are a business, not a charity and if they have an ability to sell parts, why wouldn't they ? We like to think that they'll "look after us" because we have one of the better examples of the "Ultimate Driving Machine", but some of us need to take off the rose tinted specs.

Oh really ?
Would really like to see your revised opinion if you end up with a metal roof or simple M3 bumper :-D

[cossack]

What exactly did you prove ?
I guess you are not familiar with exchange rates.
55k GBP back in 2003 was 78k EUR
55k GBP today is 64k EUR
That's 18% depreciation.
So are you comparing today's FX rates with the ones back in 2003 or 2007 and saying that I paid more or others paid less ?

I was very specific, I paid 3 times more compared to a normal M3.
You will find that in Europe that the CSL was sold, it is usually the case.
It is/was the case for Germany, France etc.
A CSL is/was usually three times the price of a normal M3.

Now you are talking/thinking while you are at the states and you have no clue about the situation here.
This is called speculation.

The other smart things about the cost of your upgrades and the Aston Martin are a bit ridiculous to be honest. :gayfight:

In addition to what Matt said about car education/preference over there, just observe the size of the forum signatures of your fellow BMW enthusiasts.
Who has the longest list of mods is ... the best.

I will stop here by saying that I will try my best that no CSL part will be sold to a non-CSL owner.
You have my word ;)

You're assumption is that other people can't afford a CSL that is why they get CSL parts. That is your hypothesis from all of your theories, and arguments. Again paying three times more is irrelevant. The price difference was 10,000 GBP between the CSL and the regular spec M3. Not the claimed 3X the value of the car. This is only close to being 2X for the first time with the GTS. Do some more research. Me looking at an Aston is stating that even if i get other cars, the M3 is here to stay.

You obviously don't know how to source CSL parts, nor have you needed to into the States. So you don't know our situation. :finga:

I kept my signature minimal because I don't need to advertise. Maybe you need to compensate for something down below.

Good luck with stopping everyone else getting the parts, I will do whatever I can to spite you. :thumbs: Anyone selling a salvaged CSL.

[Yanto]

Oh really ?
Would really like to see your revised opinion if you end up with a metal roof or simple M3 bumper :-D

I'll buy another one and use an existing one as a mule.......LOADSAMONEY :hahaha:

[0836whimper]

Still blows my mind a little to think that in the land of the thirsty pick-up driven 100 yards to the shops, the very limited numbers CSL isn't clean enough and is not welcome.
That's a WTF right there.

[Yanto]

Oh really ?
Would really like to see your revised opinion if you end up with a metal roof or simple M3 bumper :-D

You've just confirmed what I was saying Alex - My point is, you can't point the finger at the folks who buy parts that BMW (or third parties) are happy to sell to.

The root cause is lack of production....that needs to be addressed.

Now get your wallet out ;)

[Yanto]

Didn't happen, the m3 could catch it to crash into it :)





Ouch........mrs piss you off today :)

Yours or mine ? :-D

[LeinsCSL]

Still blows my mind a little to think that in the land of the thirsty pick-up driven 100 yards to the shops, the very limited numbers CSL isn't clean enough and is not welcome.
That's a WTF right there.

The answer is surely an //M pick-up. Not sure where you'd find one of those though???

[cossack]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/04/04-bmw-pickup-official.jpg

Not an E46 M3 but couldn't resist.

[Yanto]

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.autoblog.com/media/2011/04/04-bmw-pickup-official.jpg

Not an E46 M3 but couldn't resist.

Funny you should post that....

[Yanto]

:smokin:

[Yanto]

:-D

[cossack]

Funny you should post that....

Just cause I live in the States doesn't mean I agree with the mentality of pick ups or SUV's.

[LeinsCSL]

We need to petition BMW to make more of them ;)

[cossack]

We need to petition BMW to make more of them ;)

I hope you're not referring to pick ups.

[0836whimper]

Just cause I live in the States doesn't mean I agree with the mentality of pick ups or SUV's.

No worries Cossack, we are playing about. We just all happened to see it in real life the other day

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh252/0836whimper/IMG_9031_zpsb8a6aa75.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/0836whimper/media/IMG_9031_zpsb8a6aa75.jpg.html)

[cossack]

No worries Cossack, we are playing about. We just all happened to see it in real life the other day

http://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh252/0836whimper/IMG_9031_zpsb8a6aa75.jpg (http://s258.photobucket.com/user/0836whimper/media/IMG_9031_zpsb8a6aa75.jpg.html)

Trust me this doesn't affect me. I already have all the parts that are worthwhile doing. I'm on your guy's side to ramp up production. The market will price those who can't afford to play out. How many people could afford oem csl parts, when they can get an M3 for the price of just an airbox, and interior. I'm fully covered for any incident, or accident. So for me I'd like to see BMW continue production of the parts. It doesn't help anyone for them to stop. I see the CSL as being a real classic car in about 20 years. All BMW has to do is raise the price on the parts, I'm sure less guys across the pond will be buying them then.

[mick csl]

Oh really ?
Would really like to see your revised opinion if you end up with a metal roof or simple M3 bumper :-D

you have right Alex what about our roofs?, what if the clear coat peels off end they can't relacker it ?:banghead:.

[chrisburns]

FFS I go out for a few hours and come back to this shit fest :hahaha:

Cossack, dont take this the wrong way but you come across quite aggressively in a lot of your posts on this thread.

I personally think BMW have let all CSL owners down quite badly by permitting the sale of CSL specific parts to non owners full stop. In fact the more i think about it - its outragous :banghead:

[NZ_M3]

The issue here really isn't about whether you can afford it or not - that's moot.

If CSL parts are easy to come by and as Yanto have pointed out -it's a free market and as Cossack have said easily obtainable from the USA - then why aren't there group buys every week from the USA for CSL parts from BMW NA - my suspicion is BMW NA would say you can't order it.

I know some parts are easy to come by and some aren't as easy, if there's a will there's always a way - heck GTS parts have been flowing to the USA for a while now, just not widely known how it is done.

I have no issues if people wanting legitimate parts buying a wreck or mint car and stripping it just for parts (it's done everyday in this world) - at least then you own a CSL and that means you are entitled to "Support" from BMW AG.

The point here is legitimate owners are being deprived of the ability for this support as BMW AG never anticipated majority of parts going to Countries that they never imported to - this is not elitism, it's an owner asking legitimately why can this happen in the first place.

I am mindful that you will never stop those wanting parts to be able to get them, but when BMW AG is selling truck loads to overseas, something's screwed up with their system. And as many have pointed out, why would they care - other than perhaps the possibility of there being legal liability if somebody gets killed having one of those carbon roof installed on a car that didn't destine to have one.


FYI - As Yanto pointed out, if there are enough orders, BMW will sometimes reproduce parts - so who here wants to put up some money :hahaha: I was told an owner of an E34 M5 once waited 14 months for BMW to reproduce a part ... so it does happen :hahaha:

FYI 2 - I've been waiting 7 months now for a particular part also on the CSL ... I wonder if I'll beat the 14 months record held by the E34 M5 owner above ....

[mattCSLnut]

No worries Cossack, we are playing about. We just all happened to see it in real life the other day


We sure did :-D I reckon BMW would have SOLD shed load of these Down Under :beer: for the sophisticated Australians :-D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lo2MAzSHVY

[mattCSLnut]

Not an E46 M3 but couldn't resist.

Well here's an E46 M3 variant the Uh!mericans :wink: denied for the rest of us :banghead:

[NZ_M3]

We sure did :-D I reckon BMW would have SOLD shed load of these Down Under :beer: for the sophisticated Australians :-D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Lo2MAzSHVY

No need the Aussies have it sorted :finga:

http://www.caradvice.com.au/17241/applebys-m5-ute-at-deni-muster/

[Obioban]

Amusingly, I'll be building an e46 M3 touring for my fiancé starting in about 6 months :D

Edit: though maybe I shouldn't since bmw NA didn't deem us deserving of an e46 m3 touring. Might offend someone.

[cossack]

FFS I go out for a few hours and come back to this shit fest :hahaha:

Cossack, dont take this the wrong way but you come across quite aggressively in a lot of your posts on this thread.

I personally think BMW have let all CSL owners down quite badly by permitting the sale of CSL specific parts to non owners full stop. In fact the more i think about it - its outragous :banghead:

I've been nothing but on the defensive since some people are ignorant to BMW's inability to import the real CSL. I've never once claimed to have a real csl I always tell people it's a replica if they ask if its real. There aren't many options for us, unlike some people at least there are some of us who want to stay true to what we yanks believe we should have gotten which was the real CSL. Try to put yourself in our shoes, we obviously love the CSL so much that we have to replicate it. So in a matter of sense it's a matter of flattery. In any case BMW should produce more parts, not because some guys from the US may buy them. But rather since even within the company core principe the m3 CSL is the culmination of all M3's and BMW at its best. I don't want to take away from the pile of parts, nor would any of my purchases have made any significant difference in the stockpile. Also at the time I purchased most of my parts, BMW was still under obligation to keep producing parts. Just to appease you CSL gods I feel like I'd have to buy a salvaged/wrecked CSL in order to appease you guys for a fn vin number.

I actually know a company that is importing gts parts into the US it's not that hard to find guys. It's still an on going issue, when there's a will there's a way. The GTS front lip is 6,000 usd if anyone wants one.

Last serious question, what is a real length of time that BMW should produce or manufacture spare parts for the CSL. Lets say you were in power to make that dcision what would be the proper length of time or part to car ratio.

[NZ_M3]

Have just been in contact with the most important parts manager for BMW Oceania area and he knows all about the NLA parts and how it works - had a good chat to him about it all and what goes on with it.

I now know what's happening with this ... but keeping this a secret so the Yanks don't find out :-D

[Obioban]

Have just been in contact with the most important parts manager for BMW Oceania area and he knows all about the NLA parts and how it works - had a good chat to him about it all and what goes on with it.

I now know what's happening with this ... but keeping this a secret so the Yanks don't find out :-D

That'll last-- maybe even weeks!

[NZ_M3]

That'll last-- maybe even weeks!

haha sarcasm mate .... I'll post more about it when I've got the list back ;)

But safe to say 'everything' is still available (does not mean in stock) ... it just depends on how patient you are.

[Obioban]

haha sarcasm mate .... I'll post more about it when I've got the list back ;)

But safe to say 'everything' is still available (does not mean in stock) ... it just depends on how patient you are.

Well then, everybody wins? As in, sounds like they're making parts to order, so csl owners and M3 owners alike can partake so long as they're willing to pay/wait?

[NZ_M3]

Well then, everybody wins? As in, sounds like they're making parts to order, so csl owners and M3 owners alike can partake so long as they're willing to pay/wait?

Not exactly. Suffice to say it'll be more difficult for non owners to get parts however :supz:

[Obioban]

Not exactly. Suffice to say it'll be more difficult for non owners to get parts however :supz:

I'm going to hazzard that if you know a csl owner and parts are being made to order... They can be had. :whistle:

[Pip1968]

I cannot remember who posted about why the CSL never went to the USA (a few pages back in the mire) but I thought the reason was more safety orientated than emmisions.

They should really do what Rolex do and only replace parts like for like so if you cannot give them the old ducktail boot then they will not give you a replacement.

Where is the love?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WpYeekQkAdc

Pip :whistle:

[Mike R]

I can see both points of view, but I have to say, I'm with Yanto on this. The fault is with BMW, not people wanting something as close to a CSL as they can get. At the end of the day, you can clearly see these guys' passion for the cars we love as well - hell, they're building replicas that are costing them more than it would for us to buy the real thing :notworthy:.

We should consider ourselves lucky that we can have the real deal and continue to lobby BMW to ensure the parts remain available for ALL of us. At the end of the day in this scenario, EVERYONE wins - from the small companies that produce the parts for BMW, to those that want a real CSL but due to the country they are unfortunate to live in, are denied this.

If you think about it, they're actually doing us a favour, as BMW wouldn't bother producing the parts if there wasn't the demand for them - I personally believe the fact that there has been this demand for all these parts has kept production of them up for longer than it would have, if other E46 M3 owners hadn't been buying these CSL specific items.

I suspect that production of a lot of parts would have been ended long ago if BMW had built up a stock-pile through not selling to anyone but real owners. When production stops, that can be catastrophic, as these small companies DEPEND on these orders and could go to the wall without continued demand for products. Once this happens, the ability to reproduce a specific part can be lost :(. So while there is this demand for parts for our cars, production remains (relatively) constant. I certainly wouldn't want to lose that just for the sake of being elitist - we can all identify a real one just from the VIN, so it's not like we have to be wary of having a copy car passed off as a real one, so I really don't get what the issue is with some of you - as per the above, I think you have got it wrong about the supply issue - 100% it would be worse now IF BMW had stuck to their guns and only supplied real CSL owners.

[mattCSLnut]

Amusingly, I'll be building an e46 M3 touring for my fiancé starting in about 6 months :D

Edit: though maybe I shouldn't since bmw NA didn't deem us deserving of an e46 m3 touring. Might offend someone.


To "paraphrase" the M guys we met last week in Munich... It's the American buying public who didn't see the E46 M3 Touring necessary in the USA... and for the record it's the general ignorance that I find a little offensive :banghead: ;)

[Ben]

hi, think a main concern would be the preservation of the tooling for the various parts. The carbon bits in particular were from independent suppliers??The specialist companies involved in the manufacturer of these parts (bumpers - in Slovakia? caught a glimpse of the sticker the other day) could be identified and contacted? make a bit of dialogue. Whats to stop a group of entrepreneurial CSL owners commissioning and supplying these parts in batches from the original manufacturers? 'New Parts' section on CSLR?

Didnt the Ford boys do a similar thing with the 18in monte wheels from Compomotive?

Hey if there's a couple of bucks in it CSLR might as well profit from the unfortunate individuals who want to modify(spoil) perfectly good M3s......just kidding ;-)

[Mike R]

hi, think a main concern would be the preservation of the tooling for the various parts. The carbon bits in particular were from independent suppliers??The specialist companies involved in the manufacturer of these parts (bumpers - in Slovakia? caught a glimpse of the sticker the other day) could be identified and contacted? make a bit of dialogue. Whats to stop a group of entrepreneurial CSL owners commissioning and supplying these parts in batches from the original manufacturers? 'New Parts' section on CSLR?

BMW would hold the rights to the moulds and would not allow it IMO.


Didnt the Ford boys do a similar thing with the 18in monte wheels from Compomotive?

Not quite, they're a close copy of the OZ rally wheel, but in alloy instead of magnesium and because it was out of production, OZ didn't seem to mind providing that it wasn't sold as an "OZ replica" or with OZ badging from the manufacturers / suppliers. This is why it is colloquially called the "Monte" style wheel, as it is the 18" version of the OE 16" version produced for the limited production run "Monte" edition Escort, so it's not a direct copy of a Ford part.

[Steve B]

Didnt the Ford boys do a similar thing with the 18in monte wheels from Compomotive?


yes I bought a set of the new generation 1's... which has been described by Mike above...

[Obioban]

To "power phrase" the M guys we met last week in Munich... It's the American buying public who didn't see the E46 M3 Touring necessary in the USA... and for the record it's the general ignorance that I find a little offensive :banghead: ;)

Lol, the rest of the world, other than one county, wasn't enough to justify a wagon?

If it makes you feel better, the ROW was the reason there was no e46 M3 sedan-- the USA was the only country that bought the e36 M3 sedan in any real numbers.

[_Nathan_]

To "power phrase" the M guys we met last week in Munich... It's the American buying public who didn't see the E46 M3 Touring necessary in the USA... and for the record it's the general ignorance that I find a little offensive :banghead: ;)

Ignorance like not being able to spell "paraphrase" :bigcry:

[mattCSLnut]

Ignorance like not being able to spell "paraphrase" :bigcry:
That's exactly right :banghead: :hahaha:

[mattCSLnut]

Lol, the rest of the world, other than one county, wasn't enough to justify a wagon?

That's correct... one very BIG country... in fact the whole of the North American continent, so two very BIG countries, if you include Canada.

If it makes you feel better, the ROW was the reason there was no e46 M3 sedan-- the USA was the only country that bought the e36 M3 sedan in any real numbers.

Not really ;) what's ROW ? BTW the E36 M3 4 door Saloon (your Sedan) was SOLD here on our little island too :beer:

[Mike R]

That's correct... one very BIG country... in fact the whole of the North American continent, so two very BIG countries, if you include Canada.



Not really ;) what's ROW ? BTW the E36 M3 4 door Saloon (your Sedan) was SOLD here on our little island too :beer:

ROW = Rest Of World :smt016

[Obioban]

That's correct... one very BIG country... in fact the whole of the North American continent, so two very BIG countries, if you include Canada.



Not really ;) what's ROW ? BTW the E36 M3 4 door Saloon (your Sedan) was SOLD here on our little island too :beer:

Rest of world.

And, yes, that's what I said. Offered but extremely low take rate outside of the USA, so no e46 version.

[alexk]

Shame BMW you didn't sell the CSL in the US.
We are missing the opportunity to see CSLs with 20 x 12J square setups and -5 deg camber :wanker:


:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

[_Nathan_]

Congratulations on xenophobic thread of the year.

[Alx]

Hello everyone,

I have been reading this thread with interest.

I think the problem lies with BMW and not with some guys trying to improve their cars.

Everyone is free to purchase the parts they want even if it bothers some of us.

Unfortunately nowadays, BMW is run more by accountants focused on numbers and spreadsheets than by passionate people trying to make great cars... They prefer making profits in the short term and sell as many SUVs as they can.

When they launched the Z8 they were promising that they would provide parts for the next 50 years:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BMW_Z8_(E52)

A car like the M3 CSL would certainly deserve that.

Hopefuly, in a couple of years, we can count on "BMW Classic" (http://www.bmw-classic.com) to provide some M3 CSL parts. They already do it for older models.

Regards,
Alex

[alexk]

Congratulations on xenophobic thread of the year.

:thumbs: :thumbs: Spot on Nathan :)

[NZ_M3]

Congratulations on xenophobic thread of the year.

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha: I'd have thought M3s and M3 CSL were of the same DNA and origin ... how can it be xenophobic?


I didn't really want to jump the gun ... but here's what I know so far (more confirmation to follow):

1. NLA I've been told basically means there's nothing in stock in the warehouses for cars under 15 years old - it does not mean it won't be restocked - although it sometimes does depending on demand for a particular part. (BMW has a couple of warehouses around the world that stock parts for different supply areas).

2. A low production volume car like the CSL will have a certain set number of parts made through the first 10 years - it will not be considered for "Classics" under the Mobile tradition banner until it has reached 15 years.

3. BMW keeps and stores "all" the tooling even if a part is manufactured by a third party (unless logistically difficult to do) - but BMW AG retains all rights and usage for such a part forever basically.

4. A general rule of thumb is BMW will put a part back into production when there's 200 orders received for a NLA part - sometimes more if the part is expensive to reproduce - he believes the roof is one of those parts.

5. The longest they have ever had a customer wait on an NLA part was 10 years :hahaha:

6. Apparently there's only one guy at Mobile Tradition that deals with NLA parts and decides whether they put it back into production - The Parts manager I spoke with have said he will contact him and find out for me what is happening with all the NLA parts for the CSL and have asked me to provide a list of the parts that I am concerned about currently and for the future.

7. Some parts that are interchangeable will be re-classed as 'standardisation' - this is what we are seeing with the rear glass. Even bespoke parts on limited production vehicles can end up being standardised. Most of the time the standardised parts will be the 'top spec' part only - I am lead to believe that all the rear glass produced from now on might be the CSL item (a bit like the headers from 2005 onwards were all CSL items).

8. BMW NZ is a wholly owned subsidiary of BMW AG, so apparently they have pretty good access to information like this.

9. He did say if you are willing to pay for single productions they can always put an order through Mobile tradition for one single part - but it would mean perhaps paying 5000 euros for a roof panel ... LOL

I will update when I find out more.

[Brandtner]

Not exactly. Suffice to say it'll be more difficult for non owners to get parts however :supz:

:thumbs:

[digi]

good to see that M3 enthusiasts are so passionate about these limited run M3's. Without them, the cult status being built right now would be alot weaker.

Keep it rolling guys, remove the elitist egos, makes the world a nicer place.

:thumbs::smokin:

Definately do not want a xenophobic atmosphere here especially with our brothers with M3's.

[Obioban]

Shame BMW you didn't sell the CSL in the US.
We are missing the opportunity to see CSLs with 20 x 12J square setups and -5 deg camber :wanker:


:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Weird, I could swear my car was on lightweight, forged 18s :wanker:


7. Some parts that are interchangeable will be re-classed as 'standardisation' - this is what we are seeing with the rear glass. Even bespoke parts on limited production vehicles can end up being standardised. Most of the time the standardised parts will be the 'top spec' part only - I am lead to believe that all the rear glass produced from now on might be the CSL item (a bit like the headers from 2005 onwards were all CSL items).

That would be nice for me... but I can't see it being true in this case. The CSL rear window isn't "better" so much as a different priority set. As in, it trades off increased cabin noise for weight. That is a trade off that I want to make (clearly from this thread), but I suspect it is not one that average BMW owner want to make. I (sadly) suspect the standardized version will be the non CSL version in this case. :(


good to see that M3 enthusiasts are so passionate about these limited run M3's. Without them, the cult status being built right now would be alot weaker.

Keep it rolling guys, remove the elitist egos, makes the world a nicer place.

:thumbs::smokin:

Definately do not want a xenophobic atmosphere here especially with our brothers with M3's.

I was pretty surprised with the response I got.

[digi]

thought I post this for a laugh, E46 M3 owners should flame me as recently I pickup a OEM tower bar for my CSL and there is one less on the market now. Was cleaning out the place and frigging maid threw the bar in the dumpsters under instruction from the mrs. :moan::hahaha:

[sailorbaz]

Did I just read all that?

[Obioban]

Update: CSL rear window glass is still available. :thumbs:

[NZ_M3]

Update: CSL rear window glass is still available. :thumbs:

We already know ... I can even tell you how many there are in stock if you wanted to know.

As for the standardisation thing - I just got a full explanation on what that is: I quote

"As for standardisation… with previous experience the top of the range variant is supplied.. example: if other variants of same car had TV receiption, then TV spec’d screen is supplied, if not required, then don’t use tv wires, just tie back."

Basically it's just a note made on all part numbers that have been standardised - doesn't mean there's now TV wiring for the CSL rear glass as the CSL was never supplied with TV (at least not that I know of) ...

[shimmy]

So can I get tv in my CSL or not.

Don't want to miss an episode of Knots Landing ;)

[LeinsCSL]

So can I get tv in my CSL or not.

Don't want to miss an episode of Knots Landing ;)

I just pinned a few pictures up on the dash instead Shimmy. It's the lightweight approach :thumbs:

http://coolinthe80s.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/09/normal_008.jpg