SMG/Clutch Issues

[bildo]

Hi guys, I'm new here and only a measly M3 owner for now (non-CSL, sorry!) My car is pulling my hair out and since you all seem really knowledgeable I figured I'd ask for your input.

Basically it all started when I had an SMG issue, the car wouldn't go into gear one day. That sorted itself, however from then on the gear changing was REALLY slow. The more throttle I had, the longer it took to get into gear.

I was told to replace the indent springs, followed by the GPT. These were both replaced and whilst the gearbox was out I got the clutch replaced for a new LuK unit too.

Since the sensor change the adaptation can now be carried out (where it failed before), however it's throwing up a fault code on Autologic which is saying that the car has high resistance when going in to odd gears.

I'm completely stumped as to what this could be, with a brand new clutch, GPT and springs I'm not sure what's left? Since there's pressure and no other reason to think it's the pump I'm assuming that's not causing the problem.

Indy has tried talking to Autologic and they're stumped on what it could be too.

Any ideas chaps? :beer:

[thegingerninja]

Broken clutch release arm and or release bearing.

[bildo]

Broken clutch release arm and or release bearing.

Thanks for your response.

Bearing was replaced with the clutch, which has since done 0 miles so I assume it can't be that!

So it definitely points to the release arm then?

[bildo]

Ordering a new clutch release arm in a minute, does anyone else have any other suggestions that I can order at the same time?

[Neil M]

Just a passing thought, perhaps the software needs upgrading? One for the animals; Giraffe and/or Gorilla!

[Monkey]

I'm not sure what a GPT is?! But these gearboxes are prone to the knuckle on the back of the gearshift rod seizing.

Item no 12 on this picture

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=25_0375&hg=25&fg=05

it connects to the gearshift rod at the rear of the gearbox, with a roll pin holding it in place and then a circlip around the outside of it.

I Would check that first.

[bildo]

Just a passing thought, perhaps the software needs upgrading? One for the animals; Giraffe and/or Gorilla!

It had the latest SMG software put on a few months back, when I had clutch judder, I also recalibrated the clutch/SMG at this point.

Didn't cure an awful lot, the judder came back with a vengeance which was the reason behind the clutch change.

Hope someone can give a definitive answer, already set back some serious money after having the gearbox out twice along with the sensor and clutch. To have another error that noone seems to really know the answer to is so frustrating! :(

I'm not sure what a GPT is?! But these gearboxes are prone to the knuckle on the back of the gearshift rod seizing.

Item no 12 on this picture

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=25_0375&hg=25&fg=05

it connects to the gearshift rod at the rear of the gearbox, with a roll pin holding it in place and then a circlip around the outside of it.

I Would check that first.

Would that be throwing up an error like this? Is it an easy replacement? The gearbox is off down at the indy at the moment as someone suggested replacing the clutch arm, so I'm trying that.

Would really appreciate any advice whilst the box is out.

GPT is gear position transducer (sensor).

[shane@mbtech]

It had the latest SMG software put on a few months back, when I had clutch judder, I also recalibrated the clutch/SMG at this point.

Didn't cure an awful lot, the judder came back with a vengeance which was the reason behind the clutch change.

Hope someone can give a definitive answer, already set back some serious money after having the gearbox out twice along with the sensor and clutch. To have another error that noone seems to really know the answer to is so frustrating! :(



Would that be throwing up an error like this? Is it an easy replacement? The gearbox is off down at the indy at the moment as someone suggested replacing the clutch arm, so I'm trying that.

Would really appreciate any advice whilst the box is out.

GPT is gear position transducer (sensor).

As monkey has said, this is the likely cause:supz:

[bildo]

As monkey has said, this is the likely cause:supz:

Sounds promising then! How big of a job is it? Does the box need to be out for it to be done? Not that it matters anyway since it's already out just trying to get an idea.

[cantfind1]

Gearbox will need to be out to replace the knuckle...However I do not believe this to be your problem...

Knuckle can be taken off and cleaned if you like also clean the pins make sure its smooth and does not bind...If this knuckle was bad your gearbox would not adapt, would usually fall out at gear 4.

You say you have clutch judder..this is caused by the release bearing(doesn't matter how new its is) catching on the sleeve that it slides on...This sleeve should be changed at every clutch change and should also be greased with copper slip or similar. BMW say to keep it dry due to clutch dust mixing with lube and turning into an abrasive, however this does not work in the long run and it is just better to replace the part every clutch change...and lube it. You will then have lightning fast upshifts and downshifts and no judder...even when taking off in second gear from standstill..

Sleeve is part no 1 in this diagram...you will not need to replace parts 3 or 2

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=23_0219&hg=23&fg=15

Also check that this plastic ball pin is not broken part no 6

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=21_0093&hg=21&fg=05

As for problems going into odd gears...which springs were replaced and were any of them broken. There are 3 of them on the SMG box and all will need to be checked or replaced.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=23_0956&hg=23&fg=15


The release bearing sticking on sleeve could also be the culprit here as the clutch will have problems disengaging to allow gears to change..arm will be obvious if broken...as will plastic ball pin.

Has the gearbox oil been changed, if not it should be!

[bildo]

Gearbox will need to be out to replace the knuckle...However I do not believe this to be your problem...

Knuckle can be taken off and cleaned if you like also clean the pins make sure its smooth and does not bind...If this knuckle was bad your gearbox would not adapt, would usually fall out at gear 4.

You say you have clutch judder..this is caused by the release bearing(doesn't matter how new its is) catching on the sleeve that it slides on...This sleeve should be changed at every clutch change and should also be greased with copper slip or similar. BMW say to keep it dry due to clutch dust mixing with lube and turning into an abrasive, however this does not work in the long run and it is just better to replace the part every clutch change...and lube it. You will then have lightning fast upshifts and downshifts and no judder...even when taking off in second gear from standstill..

Sleeve is part no 1 in this diagram...you will not need to replace parts 3 or 2

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=23_0219&hg=23&fg=15

Also check that this plastic ball pin is not broken part no 6

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=21_0093&hg=21&fg=05

As for problems going into odd gears...which springs were replaced and were any of them broken. There are 3 of them on the SMG box and all will need to be checked or replaced.

http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=23_0956&hg=23&fg=15


The release bearing sticking on sleeve could also be the culprit here as the clutch will have problems disengaging to allow gears to change..arm will be obvious if broken...as will plastic ball pin.

Has the gearbox oil been changed, if not it should be!

Not sure if the juddering has stopped because I haven't driven the car since the clutch was replaced.

Spring numbers 6 and 9 were replaced on that diagram, the indy said access to the other wasn't easy?

Thanks for the advice, got to head to work now but I've left a message with the indy with the suggestions, fingers crossed something might come up, but not feeling too hopeful right now :(

[cantfind1]

Access to the other spring is very easy with the gearbox out! In fact diagram is crap as usual, doesn't show it but there are 3 springs and some bullet type separators in that kit. You buy the replacement as a kit from BMW its about 70 quid. I know expensive for some springs! But that's because BMW know it keeps breaking! lol

Good luck sleeve will fix your issues and I can pretty much guarantee that one of those springs in part 1 of that diagram has broken...

[bildo]

Access to the other spring is very easy with the gearbox out! In fact diagram is crap as usual, doesn't show it but there are 3 springs and some bullet type separators in that kit. You buy the replacement as a kit from BMW its about 70 quid. I know expensive for some springs! But that's because BMW know it keeps breaking! lol

Good luck sleeve will fix your issues and I can pretty much guarantee that one of those springs in part 1 of that diagram has broken...

Hi bud,
Thanks again for the help. I've told him to keep the gearbox out for one more day.

I had replaced two of the springs 23311228397 (6) and 23311228405 (9) on this diagram here: http://www.realoem.com/bmw/showparts.do?model=BL92&mospid=47621&btnr=23_0956&hg=23&fg=15

Both the springs (6 and 9) were fully intact and fine, but since so many people are mentioning the springs I may aswell make sure the last one is replaced aswell whilst the box is still out.

I am now ordering part no 1, would anyone please be able to give me any advice on how to fit the kit in no1? My indy hasn't seen one before and he didn't seem to think it could be easily replaced so any help would be much appreciated.

[cantfind1]

Change ur Indy........:moan:

[bildo]

They're the third ones I've used based on recommendations online!

They have been fantastic until now and they're really trying their best to help with this, but they've just not come across the problem before.

[bildo]

Just wanted to let you all know I went to pick the car up tonight and the problem is resolved! :thumbs:

Ended up buying a few different parts and carrying out everything mentioned in this thread and what I could find online.

Never thought I was gonna see the end of it, was so satisfying to do an S5 shift without waiting about 4 seconds for it to go into gear!

Only slight niggle I have is there seems to be a lot of vibration in the SMG gearstick, before it had no real feeling but now I can feel as soon as I start accelerating the gearstick has a vibration to it. The faster I go, the more I can feel it. Anyone got any ideas what might be causing it?

Other than that, it's spot on!

[cantfind1]

did you replace fly wheel??

[bildo]

Nope, it was in good condition and I didn't see any need to replace.

Is the flywheel likely to be the cause? It's a constant vibration through the entire rev range but it can only be felt through the gearstick, feels absolutely fine otherwise.

[cantfind1]

could be when you say it looked fine did they check for play?? How many miles on the car has it been driven hard for those miles??

[bildo]

Yeah it was checked for play and said to be in good nick, the clutch wasn't all that bad but they said it needed changing so I imagine if the flywheel did need changing they would've said.

Car has done 55k, I can count for about the last 15k with myself and the previous owner and it wasn't driven particularly hard by either of us. Have the occasional blast but never been to a track or anything.

Nothing else you think could be the culprit?

[cantfind1]

Mmmmmm....not really....If I were you I would just drive it like you stole it and enjoy it! Prob nothing wrong with it....Just wait for something to break again!! lol

Hard to diagnose something like that without being in the car....TBH

[bildo]

Would misalignment of the prop shaft cause anything like this?

[cantfind1]

Yep could do...