Talk to me about brakes...

[MCSL]

Ok guys could do with some advice and recommendations please :)

I have bought (with the very, very likely possibility of a mate chipping in 50%) a manual 2006 M3 CS. The idea is to turn it into a track toy, keep it at his yard, and both of us use it as and when we like.

What would you guys do with the brakes? Standard are shit, so uprating is the only way? This is where i haven't a clue - need some advice desperately. AP's seem the daddy from reading the forums, but is there any others to consider? ie - do we really need the best?? Is there a product at 50% of the cost of AP's that would serve us well? And what do/should we change - fronts and rears, or just fronts? Also heard of some folk using Porsche calipers - any good? Any links to suppliers who would be happy to serve (discount ;) ) and advise?

Any advice greatly appreciated. Cheers

[chicken]

+1 for AP's

- Tried and tested (so many people can't be wrong)
- Lots of info readily available via the interweb
- Product support from supplier is ace
- Resell value is good too.

Can't go wrong in my opinion.

[shimmy]

Ok guys could do with some advice and recommendations please :)

I have bought (with the very, very likely possibility of a mate chipping in 50%) a manual 2006 M3 CS. The idea is to turn it into a track toy, keep it at his yard, and both of us use it as and when we like.

What would you guys do with the brakes? Standard are shit, so uprating is the only way? This is where i haven't a clue - need some advice desperately. AP's seem the daddy from reading the forums, but is there any others to consider? ie - do we really need the best?? Is there a product at 50% of the cost of AP's that would serve us well? And what do/should we change - fronts and rears, or just fronts? Also heard of some folk using Porsche calipers - any good? Any links to suppliers who would be happy to serve (discount ;) ) and advise?

Any advice greatly appreciated. Cheers


some guys fit k sport, alcon, and a few butchered sets of brembos.

dont waste time looking around, just by new or used set of APs with discs (or front PF discs) and put in Rs29 pads all round, and bradided lines

This will be as good as you will ever need. (optio for Rs14 or 15 front as well)

(Dont use AP front pads or Ferrodo Ds2500 on track ever)

[chicken]

(Dont use AP front pads or Ferrodo Ds2500 on track ever)

howcomes?

[Yanto]

Also, email SamT on here for some perspectives on the Stormtrooper :thumbs:

[Barry C]

I have AP's and they are absolutely awesome but...it depends what your budget is for the over all car is. For example, if you are spending 5k on upgrades, I wouldn't blow 3k of your budget on AP's. Pagid RS29 pads, with race fluid and braided lines will perform pretty well, especially if you remove 200kgs of weight from the car!;)

One of the best mods I did on my last M3 track car was fitting proper bucket seats. I instantly improved my lap times because I wasn't sliding all over the seats and was able to really control the car on the limit.

Any way, AP's are great but depending on your budget there are other essential mods to consider.Good suspension, like KW V3 or clubsport for example and cups!

[shimmy]

howcomes?

coz they is shite......deposits at v high temps make discs feel warped

only isuse with APs is the crap pads they sell with them

[MCSL]

Thanks for replies so far - certainly gives me something to go on! Ideally could do with a full 'used' (but v.good condition) set-up. Anyone who has one to offer please feel free to contact me :)




There's a chap singing the praises of Stoptech brake kits on PistonHeads - supposed to be gvfm? Anyone tried or use them?

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Thanks for replies so far - certainly gives me something to go on! Ideally could do with a full 'used' (but v.good condition) set-up. Anyone who has one to offer please feel free to contact me :)




There's a chap singing the praises of Stoptech brake kits on PistonHeads - supposed to be gvfm? Anyone tried or use them?
Who ??

[MCSL]

Who ??


take it they are shyte then?

[MCSL]

Mmmmm. with the CS wheels being 8" wide at the front - would this clear the AP calipers??

Just found this on Google....


Here we have a set of GENUINE BMW M3 CS alloys off my late 2005 car. They would still be on it, but the 8" front does not clear the AP Racing calipers I now have fitted, so I have bought a set of CSL wheels. Much confusion surrounds the difference between the CSL wheels and the CS. It is simple, the rears are identical (part No. 2 282 999) and the fronts are 8" wide on the CS (Part No 2 282 895) and 8.5" on the CSL. That is it!! They are the same material, and all made by BBS in Germany.

[CraigMillwardCroft]

Mmmmm. with the CS wheels being 8" wide at the front - would this clear the AP calipers??

Just found this on Google....


Here we have a set of GENUINE BMW M3 CS alloys off my late 2005 car. They would still be on it, but the 8" front does not clear the AP Racing calipers I now have fitted, so I have bought a set of CSL wheels. Much confusion surrounds the difference between the CSL wheels and the CS. It is simple, the rears are identical (part No. 2 282 999) and the fronts are 8" wide on the CS (Part No 2 282 895) and 8.5" on the CSL. That is it!! They are the same material, and all made by BBS in Germany.


What does it matter CSL rims clear them :-D

[MCSL]

What does it matter CSL rims clear them :-D

Not going on a CSL dude. They going on mine (and me mates) 2006 CS. Which i believe has 8" fronts. So, i need to find some brakes/calipers that will slip under the 8" rim, or i wonder if a 'spacer' would resolve the issue? It's never bloody easy... :D

[shimmy]

1. If you are gonna track it you will fit 12-15mm front spacers so clearance will be fine

2. If its a track slag you will sell the CS rims and fit 18x 9,0 or 9.5 rims all round and cheaper trackday tyres so once again clearance wont be an issue.

3. Make sure you set ride height low coz when you cant catch the CSLs youll be stripping out evert spare 'oz'

[CraigMillwardCroft]

1. If you are gonna track it you will fit 12-15mm front spacers so clearance will be fine

2. If its a track slag you will sell the CS rims and fit 18x 9,0 or 9.5 rims all round and cheaper trackday tyres so once again clearance wont be an issue.

3. Make sure you set ride height low coz when you cant catch the CSLs youll be stripping out evert spare 'oz'

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

[s1csl]

What you spend is what you get, it is a big outlay but APs are the best, good back up, good resale value and they stop you quick , RS29s yellow all round, 15mm wheel spacers and your there and you can keep your copy csl wheels on so you save a grand there £££ in

[Johnnywb]

Whatever you go for, don't get a guy who has a name like a prickly bush to fit them for you...

:-D



(see my 'amusing' thread. I guess that i find it amusing is good at least...)

[shimmy]

Whatever you go for, don't get a guy who has a name like a prickly bush to fit them for you...

:-D



(see my 'amusing' thread. I guess that i find it amusing is good at least...)


Holly?

[chicken]

Whatever you go for, don't get a guy who has a name like a prickly bush to fit them for you...

:-D



(see my 'amusing' thread. I guess that i find it amusing is good at least...)

Mysore raspberry? that's an actual name not a consequence :hahaha:

[Yanto]

Gooseberry ??????????????????????????????????????????????

[alexk]

I think the consensus is the following.

The OEM discs are very good quality. Unfortunately they are matched to the single-piston calipers.

- If you put a good pad on the OEM calipers (i.e. Pagid RS29) you will have very good brakes that will not fade. The negative thing is the lack of feeling or modulation. The brake has an on/off feeling.
Having said that, the car does brake very good (never ran out of brakes with this setup in Monza) but squeals like HELL.

- A budget solution is having Porsche 4-piston calipers on the OEM discs. The results are very good (better modulation, larger pad surface) while the cost is low. MattCSLNut and others run this setup and they are happy with it.

- The AP Racing kit offers better modulation, better feeling and consistency. The feeling of the brakes is very good and trail-braking is very easy to do. In general they don't have issues especially when mated with Performance Friction discs.

- Other kits Alcon, Brembo, Movit etc are also good. In some cases pedal travel is increased. I guess here the question is why to pay 20,30,50% more when you have the same performance with the AP kit.
Anyhow a 385mm is not going to be an improvement over the 356mm of the AP kit as it will just increase weight and moment of inertia on the front wheels ;)

[MCSL]

Ok, uber-confused now. Our M3 CS appears to have CSL 8.5" fronts!! -
http://i45.tinypic.com/2dl0m50.jpg
http://i45.tinypic.com/au9ziv.jpg

[alexk]

Hm

I thought all M3 CSs had SMG ?
I also see the front discs appear to be 325mm (and not 345mm).
Are you sure it's an M3 CS ?

[MCSL]

Hm

I thought all M3 CSs had SMG ?
I also see the front discs appear to be 325mm (and not 345mm).
Are you sure it's an M3 CS ?

Hi mate, CS's came in manual or SMG

Not noticed the front disks...

Log book (v5) says it's a M3 CS.

[sjb]

Well all those part numbers are the same as my front wheels! you should have BMW in between two wheel nut too, probably just out of shot on your first photo ;)

Regarding brakes, I'm about to fit Porsche brembo 4 pots all round like mattcslnutt. They are as good as a direct fit using easily available parts:

Front calipers - boxster S front pt # 996.351.425/6 £320 ebay
Rear calipers - boxster rear pt # 996.352.421/2 £180 ebay
Pads of your choice, all available .........
Front & rear caliper mount brackets £300 http://porschecalipers.co.uk/uk/81/produkty/59/bmw_e46_m3_front_brembo_upgrade_.html

You will have to spend £50 for a bit of simple, obvious machining to the calipers to bring the pad over the whole of the disc face but apart from that it's easy. I have new genuine discs all round which you use with this conversion anyway which is a bonus.
I am going to paint strip mine and repaint them with £10 ebay red caliper paint and £5 BREMBO decals as I don't want porsche on them. I did this in 2003 to my VW campervan 968 brembos and they still look like new after a wipe down

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/shawn63deluxe/16032006003.jpg

You could have them powdercoated as this paint MAY not stand up to the extremes of the heat generated from tracking but it's always a good idea to do a 'warm down' lap anyway to cool the parts down as opposed to parking up right after a few laps and leaving them to bake!

JUST an opinion on a variation of the above recomendations, depends on how much you want to spend. My reasoning was if Brembo calipers are on Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini's (agreed bigger versions in some cases) then they are good enough for my CSL :-D

[sailorbaz]

You mentioned stop tech brakes earlier, our man mark runs them on his CSL and round a tight track such as knockhill, seems to really rate them.

Good luck.

[alexk]

Hi mate, CS's came in manual or SMG

Not noticed the front disks...

Log book (v5) says it's a M3 CS.

My bad. Then it's a CS.
The front discs seemed to be small in this photo.


You will have to spend £50 for a bit of simple, obvious machining to the calipers to bring the pad over the whole of the disc face but apart from that it's easy.

What exactly do you have to machine ?

[sjb]

What exactly do you have to machine ?

The 2 caliper mounting faces need 5mm machined off of them to bring the caliper inwards towards the hub so the pad doesn't hang off the edge of the disc. If that makes sense...

http://www.ca-int.co.uk/search-cXVlcnk9Y2FsaXBlcnMmc2VhcmNoX21vZGU9YW5k.html

Handy to read.....

Shawn.

[sjb]

The caliper conversion guide at the bottom of this page tells all......

http://www.ca-int.co.uk/single_prod-cHJvZF9pZD0zMTA1.html

[MCSL]

My bad. Then it's a CS.
The front discs seemed to be small in this photo.




no worries mate - might of had standard M3 discs fitted instead of the CS ones. Not got the car with me so can't check atm

[MCSL]

Well all those part numbers are the same as my front wheels! you should have BMW in between two wheel nut too, probably just out of shot on your first photo ;)

Regarding brakes, I'm about to fit Porsche brembo 4 pots all round like mattcslnutt. They are as good as a direct fit using easily available parts:

Front calipers - boxster S front pt # 996.351.425/6 £320 ebay
Rear calipers - boxster rear pt # 996.352.421/2 £180 ebay
Pads of your choice, all available .........
Front & rear caliper mount brackets £300 http://porschecalipers.co.uk/uk/81/produkty/59/bmw_e46_m3_front_brembo_upgrade_.html

You will have to spend £50 for a bit of simple, obvious machining to the calipers to bring the pad over the whole of the disc face but apart from that it's easy. I have new genuine discs all round which you use with this conversion anyway which is a bonus.
I am going to paint strip mine and repaint them with £10 ebay red caliper paint and £5 BREMBO decals as I don't want porsche on them. I did this in 2003 to my VW campervan 968 brembos and they still look like new after a wipe down

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v709/shawn63deluxe/16032006003.jpg

You could have them powdercoated as this paint MAY not stand up to the extremes of the heat generated from tracking but it's always a good idea to do a 'warm down' lap anyway to cool the parts down as opposed to parking up right after a few laps and leaving them to bake!

JUST an opinion on a variation of the above recomendations, depends on how much you want to spend. My reasoning was if Brembo calipers are on Porsche, Ferrari and Lamborghini's (agreed bigger versions in some cases) then they are good enough for my CSL :-D

Good info thanks :)

[Barry C]

I thought all M3 CS were in that lovely indigo purple/blue colour?

[sailorbaz]

Hey Barry, they come in Silver Grey also and maybe Estoril Blue. I might have seen one in Imola Red also at some point, but I could be wrong.

[chicken]

If you are considering seconds, might get these at a bargain,

http://www.pistonheads.com/classifieds/parts-and-plates/parts-and-accessories/bmw/brembo-gt-4-pot-fr-and-rr/1236297

[gingernuts]

Bargain? Are they not the same as Porsche calipers but double the price. Granted they won't need adapters but don't seem cheap to me.

[chicken]

I didn't mean the asking price was a bargain, he ends with ovno, plus those calipers look new, I think if he accepted a more reasonable offer they would make a good improvement over the Oem csl cheese stoppers

[Yanto]

Its good to see the seller has taken his time on presentation in the pictures....:hahaha:.......must work in marketing !

[phoenixcsl]

Bargain? Are they not the same as Porsche calipers but double the price. Granted they won't need adapters but don't seem cheap to me.

Nope they look like the same ones I have in my shed! Which are the Brembo GT kit, but his pics are sheite so can't tell 100%, but the bigger calipers look like the same Brembo 'F40' calipers I have.

The mounting brackets from Brembo will cost a fortune, like their discs and pads!

It's not a cheap kit, new price is more expensive than a full AP / Alcon setup, Brembo GT kit is approx £4.5k + new, so mega bucks.

Basically they run a 355mm or 380mm front semi floating disc (depending on which kit) and 345mm rear disc.

The Porsche calipers usually fit the standard CSL discs...

[DazBlackCSL]

Its good to see the seller has taken his time on presentation in the pictures....:hahaha:.......must work in marketing !

Lol thats shocking :hahaha:

[Johnnywb]

Has anyone got any experience of perfomance friction pads? Have been recommended them as an alternative to RS29's?