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View Full Version : M3 v CSL 5th Gear Test


Neil M
25-03-2013, 02:11 PM
5th Gear comparative test M3 v M3 CSL, for those they may not have seen it (Not the best quality vid) but give you an insight into the difference in performance.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-rcoFJSqLMc

Steve B
25-03-2013, 11:02 PM
Very impressive over such a short distance....

Mike R
26-03-2013, 12:09 PM
Should have leveled the playing field by putting cups on the standard M3 - that would have been a true test of the weight / power / suspension differences.

shane@mbtech
26-03-2013, 04:12 PM
Should have leveled the playing field by putting cups on the standard M3 - that would have been a true test of the weight / power / suspension differences.

Always thought that myself about that vid.

///martin
26-03-2013, 06:21 PM
The CSL is CSL:thumbs:

Rutkowski
20-05-2013, 09:53 PM
Should have leveled the playing field by putting cups on the standard M3 - that would have been a true test of the weight / power / suspension differences.

Agreed!

Also, they test the heaviest possible M3 with a sun roof VS lightest CSL as you say, on cups. A silly comparison IMHO

Teatowel
20-05-2013, 11:51 PM
That's a nice red - don't see many of those on the E46....

shimmy
21-05-2013, 12:28 AM
Should have leveled the playing field by putting cups on the standard M3 - that would have been a true test of the weight / power / suspension differences.

Always thought that myself about that vid.

Agreed!

Also, they test the heaviest possible M3 with a sun roof VS lightest CSL as you say, on cups. A silly comparison IMHO

I have to disagree with all these posts.

Why?

It's like saying "the M3 hasn't got the same SMg software so it's not fair! Or the geo is different, it's not fair, or it's heavier it's not fair.

They are different cars with different wheels, tyres, SMg, software, diff, suspensions, weight, seats, power, so why pick on the tyres?

mattCSLnut
21-05-2013, 12:33 AM
That's a nice red - don't see many of those on the E46....
Imola Red IIRC :smokin: Almost as rare as Alpine White on E46 M3.

mattCSLnut
21-05-2013, 12:39 AM
Agreed!

Also, they test the heaviest possible M3 with a sun roof VS lightest CSL as you say, on cups. A silly comparison IMHO

Not as silly as you think mate :wink: If the Standard (heavy) M3 was fitted with CUPs which are specifically designed for the (lighter) M3 CSL (with CSL specific load rates) The CUPs would have been worked that much harder on the heavier car and possibly overheated to the point of no grip advantage. Worth considering ?

Straightsix
15-07-2013, 04:06 PM
Always thought that myself about that vid.

Plus 1 :-)

Straightsix
15-07-2013, 04:09 PM
Agreed!

Also, they test the heaviest possible M3 with a sun roof VS lightest CSL as you say, on cups. A silly comparison IMHO

Forget the sunroof in the grand scheme of things would not make as much difference as the tyres.

Yes CSL was designed around Pilot Sport Cups but for curiosity sake and in the interest of science would be interesting to see how much closer the stock E46 M3 Coupe is quicker than the time already set on regular tyres.

Rutkowski
18-09-2013, 07:31 PM
I have to disagree with all these posts.

Why?

It's like saying "the M3 hasn't got the same SMg software so it's not fair! Or the geo is different, it's not fair, or it's heavier it's not fair.

They are different cars with different wheels, tyres, SMg, software, diff, suspensions, weight, seats, power, so why pick on the tyres?

Shimmy, I do not agree with you.

The cups tyres weren't a standard fitment, were they?

BMW haven't struck a deal with Michelin to develop these cups specifically for CSL, have they?

Therefore, the argument for testing cars on the same tyres is valid IMHO.

Removing weight off car, changing software to CSL, upgrading engine parts etc etc is something completely different to upgrading tyres - which are a crucial safety aspect.

Cups 2 have come out. If I installed these on my M3 and raced CSL (on cups mk 1) - would it be a fair race?

shimmy
18-09-2013, 07:35 PM
Forget the sunroof in the grand scheme of things would not make as much difference as the tyres.

Yes CSL was designed around Pilot Sport Cups but for curiosity sake and in the interest of science would be interesting to see how much closer the stock E46 M3 Coupe is quicker than the time already set on regular tyres.

1/3 closer

shimmy
18-09-2013, 07:35 PM
Shimmy, I do not agree with you.

The cups tyres weren't a standard fitment, were they?

BMW haven't struck a deal with Michelin to develop these cups specifically for CSL, have they?

Therefore, the argument for testing cars on the same tyres is valid IMHO.

Removing weight off car, changing software to CSL, upgrading engine parts etc etc is something completely different to upgrading tyres - which are a crucial safety aspect.

Cups 2 have come out. If I installed these on my M3 and raced CSL (on cups mk 1) - would it be a fair race?

M6 are shit :) :partyman:

alexk
18-09-2013, 07:53 PM
Shimmy, I do not agree with you.

The cups tyres weren't a standard fitment, were they?

BMW haven't struck a deal with Michelin to develop these cups specifically for CSL, have they?

Therefore, the argument for testing cars on the same tyres is valid IMHO.

Removing weight off car, changing software to CSL, upgrading engine parts etc etc is something completely different to upgrading tyres - which are a crucial safety aspect.

Cups 2 have come out. If I installed these on my M3 and raced CSL (on cups mk 1) - would it be a fair race?

The cup tyres were a standard fitment.
Michelin and BMW developed the cup tyre specifically for the CSL. Then it was fitted to other cars (in other setup / configurations).

Edit: why usually people that do not own a CSL struggle to show that the M3 is as good as the CSL when fitted with cup tyres ?

shimmy
18-09-2013, 08:16 PM
The cup tyres were a standard fitment.
Michelin and BMW developed the cup tyre specifically for the CSL. Then it was fitted to other cars (in other setup / configurations).

Edit: why usually people that do not own a CSL struggle to show that the M3 is as good as the CSL when fitted with cup tyres ?

I thin it was actually a no cost option Alex....but don't listen to Rutty, his M3 is the slowest ever. :gayfight:

shane@mbtech
18-09-2013, 08:37 PM
I have to disagree with all these posts.

Why?

It's like saying "the M3 hasn't got the same SMg software so it's not fair! Or the geo is different, it's not fair, or it's heavier it's not fair.

They are different cars with different wheels, tyres, SMg, software, diff, suspensions, weight, seats, power, so why pick on the tyres?

Not true 2005 on get same smg software and diffs are the same.

I know the differences but still would be curious to see how they compared on same Tyres. Like at spa where I really struggled on a048s compared to your cups. Put the slicks on and smoked you:birdman: so Tyres play a huuuuuuge part as well you know.

Bounce
18-09-2013, 10:27 PM
M6 are shit :) :partyman::hahaha::hahaha:

Rutkowski
18-09-2013, 10:40 PM
M6 are shit :) :partyman:

LOL

Rutkowski
18-09-2013, 10:41 PM
The cup tyres were a standard fitment.
Michelin and BMW developed the cup tyre specifically for the CSL. Then it was fitted to other cars (in other setup / configurations).

Edit: why usually people that do not own a CSL struggle to show that the M3 is as good as the CSL when fitted with cup tyres ?

LOL times 2

Rutkowski
18-09-2013, 10:48 PM
Not true 2005 on get same smg software and diffs are the same.

I know the differences but still would be curious to see how they compared on same Tyres. Like at spa where I really struggled on a048s compared to your cups. Put the slicks on and smoked you:birdman: so Tyres play a huuuuuuge part as well you know.

Indeed.

Upgrading tyres does not interfere with factory design or settings.

Reducing weight and all other changes do, therefore it is called modification.

Never said, standard M3 would do as good or even better than CSL... but would do much better no doubt.

As for overheating issues... because M3 weighs 100kg more... this is an equivalent to an extra passenger. I can't believe this would play a massive difference. An extra cool down lap perhaps...

3wheels3
18-09-2013, 11:30 PM
Guys...CSL & Cups were made for each other. Get over it. If you're gerna say "...but if I put Cups on my bogo m3..." ya may aswell say if I put hoosiers or slicks on my bogo m3. Deal with it ffs.

shimmy
18-09-2013, 11:38 PM
Guys...CSL & Cups were made for each other. Get over it. If you're gerna say "...but if I put Cups on my bogo m3..." ya may aswell say if I put hoosiers or slicks on my bogo m3. Deal with it ffs.


so speaks THe Man :thumbs:

shane@mbtech
19-09-2013, 12:02 AM
Guys...CSL & Cups were made for each other. Get over it. If you're gerna say "...but if I put Cups on my bogo m3..." ya may aswell say if I put hoosiers or slicks on my bogo m3. Deal with it ffs.

But you CAN put cups on an M3.

I'm just curious as to what the tyres on their own do?

I know how much better the CSL is than a normal M3, never mind an M6. Deal with it FFS:finga::-D

billyboysm3
19-09-2013, 12:29 PM
Has anyone got a standard M3, ive got a set of cups they can borrow, we could go to brands, Snetterton, Bedford or Donny and try it out.

After owning both I can predict the out come.

alexk
19-09-2013, 01:44 PM
Not true 2005 on get same smg software and diffs are the same.


I don't think the SMG software is the same.
The launch control rpms are certainly different as well as the blip when downshifting and with closed throttle.

shane@mbtech
19-09-2013, 01:58 PM
Has anyone got a standard M3, ive got a set of cups they can borrow, we could go to brands, Snetterton, Bedford or Donny and try it out.

After owning both I can predict the out come.

We know the outcome billy. But it intrigues me to see how much quicker the standard m3 would go.

Reading the posts on this thread its as though someone has abused your mum or something.

It's a car FFS get over it! :blalalala::gayfight:

northernjim
19-09-2013, 04:50 PM
It is quite funny reading this thread..... I know my car is not as fast as a csl, but is it as much fun? yep :thumbs:

A lot of csl's have been modified, as has my car, so is my car as quick as a standard csl? hmm maybe? do I care? not really - chasing cars is always fun whatever they are :finga:


Not as silly as you think mate :wink: If the Standard (heavy) M3 was fitted with CUPs which are specifically designed for the (lighter) M3 CSL (with CSL specific load rates) The CUPs would have been worked that much harder on the heavier car and possibly overheated to the point of no grip advantage. NOT Worth considering :whistle::clown:


you said that right:finga:




They are different cars with different wheels, tyres, SMg, software, diff, suspensions, weight, seats, power, so why pick on the tyres?


because with the same tyre, the actual difference in the 'car' could be established...

fat m3 vs csl is -2sec
fat m3 with cups vs csl would be -1.0 sec over 1 lap then the extra weight and shite brakes would make the gap grow...


Forget the sunroof in the grand scheme of things would not make as much difference as the tyres.

Yes CSL was designed around Pilot Sport Cups but for curiosity sake and in the interest of science would be interesting to see how much closer the stock E46 M3 Coupe is quicker than the time already set on regular tyres.

+1


Reading the posts on this thread its as though someone has abused your mum or something.

It's a car FFS get over it! :blalalala::gayfight:


:hahaha: :thumbs:

shane@mbtech
19-09-2013, 04:53 PM
It is quite funny reading this thread..... I know my car is not as fast as a csl, but is it as much fun? yep :thumbs:

A lot of csl's have been modified, as has my car, so is my car as quick as a standard csl? hmm maybe? do I care? not really - chasing cars is always fun whatever they are :finga:





you said that right:finga:





because with the same tyre, the actual difference in the 'car' could be established...

fat m3 vs csl is -2sec
fat m3 with cups vs csl would be -1.0 sec over 1 lap then the extra weight and shite brakes would make the gap grow...




+1




:hahaha: :thumbs:


Bunch of fucking homos if you ask me jim

:hahaha:

shimmy
19-09-2013, 05:07 PM
You two non-homos seem to be doing all the posting :gayfight:

northernjim
19-09-2013, 05:39 PM
You two non-homos seem to be doing all the posting :gayfight:



feeling left out? :gayfight:

http://memecrunch.com/meme/A2LE/all-aboard-the-man-train/image.png

alexk
19-09-2013, 06:29 PM
It is an M3 CSL forum so I guess it's ok to discuss about the M3 CSL.

Jim, a comparison between a stock CSL and a stock M3 on cups would be very interesting. With the same driver and also see the consistency of laps (i.e. the times of 15 laps in a row, not just the fastest one).

I have the time attack laptime of a heavily modified/stripped M3 E46 at ADR.
I was faster the first time I tried my new suspension and my car is stock compared to this M3.
I am not sure what the outcome would be if I would be driving this M3.
I will ask the driver for telemetry files if they have any.

shimmy
19-09-2013, 06:42 PM
Jim has a basic m3 so I guess if he put cups on one session and PS2 the other we'd have a comparison, then I could do the same with his road tyres and my cups in the CSL.

If we minus the 3 secs that I would be faster anyway, we'd be able to deduce the CSL v M3 v PS2 v Cups question. :whistle::finga:

shane@mbtech
19-09-2013, 08:01 PM
Jim has a basic m3 so I guess if he put cups on one session and PS2 the other we'd have a comparison, then I could do the same with his road tyres and my cups in the CSL.

If we minus the 3 secs that I would be faster anyway, we'd be able to deduce the CSL v M3 v PS2 v Cups question. :whistle::finga:

:hahaha:

Straightsix
19-09-2013, 08:27 PM
The interesting comparison would be E46 M3 Coupe SMGII V E46 M3 CSL
Both on PS2s or PSSs
Would expect CSL to be faster but how much would be interesting and obviously varies circuit to circuit
Over 1 lap

shimmy
19-09-2013, 08:47 PM
The interesting comparison would be E46 M3 Coupe SMGII V E46 M3 CSL
Both on PS2s or PSSs
Would expect CSL to be faster but how much would be interesting and obviously varies circuit to circuit
Over 1 lap


SMG would make virtually no difference at all with experienced driver, maybe a little with hobby drivers like us.

Straightsix
19-09-2013, 09:04 PM
SMG would make virtually no difference at all with experienced driver, maybe a little with hobby drivers like us.

Having the same gearbox would eliminate that as a performance differentiator variable by comparing like for like

cslsuperfan
19-09-2013, 09:12 PM
SMG would make virtually no difference at all with experienced driver, maybe a little with hobby drivers like us.

hobby drivers...how very dare you!! seriously though SMG is ace but of no measureable difference to manual

Mr J Clarkson's quote says it all " I've got one of them flappy paddle gearboxes just like Michael Schoooooomacher".

_Nathan_
19-09-2013, 09:29 PM
I have the time attack laptime of a heavily modified/stripped M3 E46 at ADR.
I was faster the first time I tried my new suspension and my car is stock compared to this M3.

Not that heavily modified clearly :thumbs:

alexk
20-09-2013, 08:03 AM
Not that heavily modified clearly :thumbs:

Did you see the car ?

shane@mbtech
20-09-2013, 09:07 AM
:119::notworthy:

Funny

billyboysm3
20-09-2013, 01:30 PM
Ive got us a standard E46 M3 but does anyone actually own a standard CSL?

Mike R
20-09-2013, 02:29 PM
Ive got us a standard E46 M3 but does anyone actually own a standard CSL?

Shimmy's is standard - it says so in his signature :hahaha:.

shane@mbtech
20-09-2013, 03:05 PM
Just sold my standard one. Well it had carbon paddles and they were definitely worth 1 second.

Straightsix
20-09-2013, 03:16 PM
Would be quite funny seeing the look on a CSL driver getting beaten by a standard M3 Coupe driver and both on the same tyres. Clearly must be because the steel roof is worth 10 seconds :-)

billyboysm3
20-09-2013, 04:01 PM
Shimmy's is standard - it says so in his signature :hahaha:.

I think he has got a few magic trees hanging in the rear view mirror

shane@mbtech
04-12-2013, 09:15 AM
A bot wearing sexy lingerie